Guest posting revenge review after I open case for late check out

[Angelina199]

Hi so long story short, I rent rooms in shared apartment unfortunately sometimes guest not understand that but it clearly listed private room. Anyway guest probably didn't understand also this time and at day of check out in morning he wrote if possible to stay till late evening 10 pm. You can ask of course but if not possible of course he must leave after 10a.m morning, so we say no we have other bookings from other platform, then he say he can check out 5pm afternoon, of course we start worrying as we have other guest who come 2pm and if we can't clean room we may need find something for them and even pay difference because other platforms terms and conditions state that of host can't host he must pay difference if guest need to be relocated. So we write him and tell he must bring back keys 12.00 pm or we open case for late check out and charge double rate. He continues why double bla bla of course not happy and then write I'm also host I leave you perfect review of course he was concerned about case hence mentioned perfect review. He eventually came 4.30 pm our guest from other platform agreed to come later. So we didn't proceed with case it just stated open

 Guest then next day wrote bad review stating

Check in instruction were confusing not much privacy and smell all day.

Of course its all lies but it's hard to dispute. If it was review without late check out context of course I would not dispute but this context in WhatsApp when initially he offered perfect review after we threatened with late check out case, but when we didn't close case he wrote bad review. After reading Airbnb policy

It states this:

Its not allowed to ask hosts or guests write bad or good reviews and expect that host or guest do certain things. In this case he offered perfect review and was expecting we close case for late check out. What drive me crazy is Airbnb attitude they just say review is in line with policy initially they said that deals made outside of Airbnb platform they don't review, so I thought that because our conversation was in WhatsApp Airbnb didn't take it seriously

Or they just didn't see clear contexts where guest clearly offered review and expected host do certain things.

Airbnb doesn't comment what is issue that conversation was outside of platform or they don't see context that guest offer positive reviews for something. I clearly multiple times asked what is issue and they like robot continue same thing. One time we had also case when guest run out from room he was drunk he expected entire apartment then he wrote in review it's room and I didn't get back money lol so what and left 1 star. So it was big fight with Airbnb also my girlfriend multiple days write many messages to Airbnb support how one drunk man can spoil her rating because she was borderline to become superhost. Then she asked connect with Russian department as she natively speak Russian. They deleted review like in few minutes. This clearly show Airbnb double standards in this case

Moreover now she could not get russian support she asked multiple times with no luck. She really not best at writing in English she speak and understand OK but still much better in native language. After war I really feel totally different attitude as it was before simply ignoring and answering like robots. Why it's difficult to answer simple quest does WhatsApp conversation counts as proof or no for disputes. I asked like 5 times this simple question with no luck.

There is one more problem she is lucky to have before like 15 good 5 star reviews funny thing is when she got notification of becoming superhost she receives also notification about review so she thought guest kept his word and posted perfect review she left neutral review for guest but my advice was to leave bad review but she was like I don't want negative energy. She post review about guest and she see immidiately someone **bleep**... ti.. n,,, g on her head I'm sorry. Really it was so much coincidence it's crazy. 

So if she had before only 2 reviews she got this bad review total 3 2 are 5 star and this is 1 star for example crazy thing is she would be banned.

This happened to me I was superhost before then during covid didn't host, after covid made new listing had 2 guests both 5 star, then one day booking he came broke lamp and left didn't understand its room only I open case for broken lamp guest in response leave bad review and my ratings drop below 4.0 Airbnb say I have one month to improve after bad rating nobody books I get bookings from other platform after 1.5 months Airbnb system see I didn't improve and ban me forever. If my girlfriend was not so active with previous case when russian support deleted it I'd before she didn't had many 5 star reviews she would be banned also. All from drunk people or someone who don't understand and book rushing last minute. This system of reviews is a complete joke. Other platforms care more about hosts. 

[Kate867]

@Angelina199   Clearly you are upset and I do understand it.  However, Airbnb expect both guests and hosts to be honest within their reviews and only delete the ones that violate their review policy.  They cannot determine who is lying and who is not.  You will not have been the first host, and you certainly won’t be the last one that feels aggrieved by this.  Having said that, I do note that you gave the guest who complained about ‘smells’ a nice written review.

I have to stress how important it is to keep ALL communication with your guests on Airbnb Messages.  This is the only way that Customer Support can see what has happened.  If you have verbal communication, confirm what has been agreed or not agreed on the messages thread so they can respond.. or not.  If they use text messages or Whattsapp, then let them know firmly that they must use the messages thread, take a screenshot of their texts and put it onto the Airbnb messages thread so they can agree or disagree there.

It is quite common for guests to not read listings completely prior to booking them so it really important to make sure that your listing is ‘Crystal clear’ as to what your guest can expect.  Make the most important facts the most prominent ones.  One of our guests complained about something in his written review.  He would have had no reason to complain had he bothered to read our listing and check in instructions.  Airbnb Support removed his review because of our clarity.

I note that you responded in very lengthly detail to the guest who reviewed you due to misunderstanding that you are a Home Share and that the apartment would not be for her sole use.  Again, I understand that you were upset.  However, your guest may or may not have read your response and her future hosts (unless they do some serious digging) will most likely not see it at all.  Your future guests will see it though, when they are looking at your reviews as a Host.  It is quite likely that it will put people off from booking or leaving a review as they may assume that if they make a complaint they will get a similar response.  Any response to a negative review should be short, calm, polite and above all, professional.  You have time to write a review or respond to one, so it is always best to wait a few days to allow some perspective before doing it.  I would advise that you ask Airbnb to remove your response to that review.  As the author of it they should do so with no explanation required.

[Sherrie58]

I so agree, and regarding the last part I write a response on paper, let it sit for a day or two and rewrite it before posting.  I think when there is a long-winded review from a host it draws attention to the issue instead of maybe your hopes of explaining and defending the situation.  I've been so glad I waited for my perspective to change before writing. The saying "less is best" is something I'm embracing.  

[Janis20]

Hi Kate Im Janis Angelinas Co host, thanks for reply! Its still hard to say if main issue was that guest didnt understand that it is only room, actually after talking with Angelina seems he understand that its a room , because  before booking there was some discussion where he was asking if our room is available for month she was actually trying to find something for him. So This is not main issue he didnt understood what he book. 
So what I try understand and already i read many times yes our conversation was outside of airbnb but on phone number registered for that guest booking. It seems yes airbnb doesnt review evidence which is outside of airbnb platfrom. Actually in one response airbnb customer support agent told this phrase:
We not review agreements made outside of airbnb platform.
BUT WHEN kept asking if only  reason for not removing review was that we comuncated outside of airbnb then he kept silent and like robot answered review is in line with airbnb policy but its not especially after reading this part :
----

Extortion or incentivization

Any attempt to use reviews or review responses to force a person to do something they aren’t obligated to do is a misuse of reviews, and we don’t allow it.

-----

So I think AIRBNB SUPPORT AGENT didnt even read what was written on whatsapp even though its registered phone number for guest and we made video clearly showing it. So not sure if they think we manipulated it or no. 
This is main thing we try to understand if in this case main problem for not removing review was that our conversation was not via airbnb messages or review itself or our conversation was not considered to be valid proof to remove review. 
So in short if everything what was written in whatsapp was written in airbnb would they remove review or still they would say not enough evidence. 
Im not saying what is right or wrong now but its interesting to understand airbnb position in such matters. Do they simply not even look at evidence which is outside of platfrom as one of support agents hinted and you also tell same thing or they are OK that someone offer deals with perfect reviews and expect that hosts will close opened cases. 

So if guest just simply left such review with smell difficult to check in I wouldnt bother to dispute only reason we disputed is this clear connection how he changed his promise from perfect review to bad after we kept opened case for late check out.

Now one example :

If at that moment when he said I leave you perfect review and if we kept saying yes please leave I will pay you 200EUR and we closed open case for late checkout  and all of this was also on whatsapp they also wouldnt remove perfect review then??? 

[Janis20]

**[Image removed - Community Center Guidelines]

Hi @Janis20,

just a heads up that it's not permitted to share private messages or another person's phone number publicly (it was at the top of your screenshots), as per the CC Guidelines, so I've had to edit your post above. Please do have a read to make sure you're up to date on how things work here 😊

Jenny

[Janis20]

these are messages in our conversation so question is simply if same exact same messages were on airbnb thread then they would remove or no what do you think? Again issue is not what he wrote it is if course but big question is how airbnb allow guests to offer perfect review and expect host to close case. Then there is actually proof for lying so airbnb can determine that guest is lying if he wanted leave perfect review then under what reasosn he changed to bad? Because he was saying perfect review at the end of stay past his check out time? So very interesting smell started after guest was checking out and suddenly check in instruction become difficult to understand and its not private suddenly

under what grounds now everything become so bad???

to put in other perspective, lets say at the day of check out I ask guest in airbnb mesages  if everything was ok he reply oh yeah I leave you perfect review then he leave this: Host was drunk place was filthy and smelly he came inside my room I felt horrible and terrified. Lets say host had 100 reviews all 5 star and he is superhost , lets say guest is first time booking and it was friday night for one day. Essentially its exactly same thing just in darker colors. I dont know but I have feeling in such case airbnb would remove such review or maybe no? Why it should be removed because guest is clearly lying if he didnt told all was perfect then ok it would be different. But even then such reviews should be carefully monitored and in my opinion proofs should have been asked, if it was really super dirty guest could have taken photos and if he making such bold acuses is new to platform and host have 100 other 5 star reviews then simply some common sense should kick in. 

Now lest play it different way hypotetical but in lighter colors its true story for me... Angelina is new to hosting THIS YEAR after covid she took a break she usually host for week and more she have 2 booking so far in this year guests leave 5 star reviews, then one drunk man come late friday night at 10 pm in bar he decide too book place for his hook up. Of course he dont read its a room he look at pictures and book. He come he is angry break some things in apartment next morning he need sleep a lot as he was drunk he leave only 1pm afternoon checkout time is 10.00 we cancel other guest for one month loose 1500 eur we need to find replacement place for other guest from other platform. We need pay out of our pocket maybe even few hundred. Guest was vomittting all night so need lot of cleaning Angelina ask for compensation for late checkout guest is angry and leave review that place was full of cockroaches snakes and other dangerous animals.

Most crazy thing is Angelina was asking to guest was everyting ok guest reply YES after checkout time plus guest was saying I leave you perfect review in hopes he dont get opened case .

if she was asking this questioon everything was ok and guest replied yes on airbnb or via whatsapp or sms to phone number which was registered to guest would be same result or no??? Suggets is not an answer suggest is saying we can decide whatever we want if one support agent is not compatent enough this will be our excuses... 

(I dont make it up she was fighting with one review 3 days with english department and then connected to russian department and they sudenly removed review in few minutes very interesting

To add more fun to story after war suddenly its very diiffuclt to get to russian speaking support agents hmm interesting they afraid maybe same thing will happen lol or there are other reasons?)

continue ... SO

Angelinas rating drop below 4.0 she got message that she need improve her rating, but how can she improve of course nobody want place with snakes and cokroaches. 

This is hypotetitcal scenario but story is true and core principle is same what happened to me.

Would it be fair if one drunk new guest who wanted hookup can destroy plans for genuine people???

. 

here is my story 

I was host for 4 years all was good I had whole apartment in other city I had mostly 4 and 5 star reviews 

during covid I took a break after 2021 I resume hosting I had like 2 good guests and one 1 day guest which broke lamp then I asked him to pay opened case of course I got revenge 1 star review saying it was hostel. So under what grounds it looks like hostel nobody care if he was saying there were lions and tigers weapons airbnb also would believe without proofs. After few days I get email that I need improve rating yes how can I improve if it looks like hostel,of course nobody book anymore . After 1 month I got email that im banned for life. They see only last year ratings what was before also doesnt matter. Because in 1 year my rating droppedd below 4.0 so I have violated their terms of service. Fantastic one probabaly drunk new guest can so easily destroy experienced host, in previous years I had mostly good ratings I think 4.5 was average before. 

How fair is hypotetical scenario which Im sure happens often in real life and how fair is my story which is very similar????

So as of now we speak with airbnb they again say something so nobody can blame them. Like we suggest to speak only in airbnb platfrom. Well suggest is not answer because that at any situation airbnb can decide whatever they want. If superhost complain about guest with zero reviews they will say whatsapp is enough proof, if new guest in whatsapp offers cash for booking they will ban him most likely, in our case also there was guest in october she threatened with bad review in whatsapp, we complain airbnb they asked if we have proof for such threts we show whatsapp messages and then it was enough proof. So airbnb with their suggest leave room for them to manipulate outcome as they wissh and whatever mood is to some random support agent you cant even appeal their decisions or get normal straight answers, because they know more they talk more evidence I can make against them. Hence customer support agent become silent after I 3 times asked simple question if whatsapp messages count as proof for disputes. Now on phone call women just said yeah we suggest in airbnb messages talk only. After I told what if case hypotetical  for example , guest in whatsapp messages offer kill my cat if I not close case then she kept silent lol. For sure she will take seriosly whatsapp sms whenever situation threaten their reputation . if it was phone call not recorded if it was different number then it would be different but number is clearly shown and registered in guest account plus we sent video proof not just screenshot which could be photoshoped maybe.

[Janis20]

so one more question but seperately hypotetical but princciple is same as in our case , so whats the poin to ask guest is everything ok like many many hosts do, lets say I asked in airbnb messages was everything ok especially after checkout time , he guest reply yes all was perfect I leave you perfect review for sure.

after 2 days host get notification about superhost status then he see new review from guest happy that most likely its good she write neutral or OK review for guest just to get greated with this horrible untrustful review. 

here is what guest wrote says email from AIRBNB :

====

place was smelly horrible dirty and I wanted vomit host was agressive and was shouting to me often for nothing. 

====

is this normal that after guest was confirming that all is Ok basically because logically if he promise perfect review then logically thinking if he is following airbnb policy and not lying then his stay should have been perfect also without privacy issues horrible smell all day and bad check in instructions. What the point to ask is everything OK. If guest want leave perfect review after checkout time how can place suddenly become so bad?? Very interesting.

Now funny part in russian language looks like airbnb terms and condtions have different wording. IN russian it says this:

if you speak outside of airbnb keep record of conversation 

so it definitly contradict with what english support agent told that they dont consider deals made out of airbnb platform. we got feeling that in his opinion whatsapp messages means nothing, when I kept asking him like 4!!!! Times he kept saying same thing review is in line with airbnb policy decision is final and closed case without option to say that its not resolved issue as it is usually with other support cases. How I translate is this , what english support agent was thinking :

oh maybe I messed up lets close and less I keep saying sommething less trouble I will  have. For sure they have some penalties if support agent make some mistakes so then he choose to say as less as possible. 

I as guest have been travelling more than hundred 

[Janis20]

so to continue as guest I was traveling hundreds of times what airbnb cant improve is moderation of simple things like are pictures real, I was in london saw great too good to be true pictures and apartment I booked and it was 100% fake doors opened old lady and knew nothing about airbnb, then I had 4 times situation when simply host didnt answer after I booked and I ended up sleeping in a car one time. These hosts are OK on platform. But me banned after one guest who not understand what he book is fine. They care about one year and basically one or 2 fake reviews  with total 116 reviews and all of them good except for 2 revenge reviews from guests who dont understand what they book.  This is much better to ban me as experienced guest and host and to allow hundreds of new hosts who not even respond and leave guests stranded in middle of night.  Airbnb is full of fake listings there are lot of listings pure fake one big problem is with rooms I see many times when host rent one room in 6 bedroom apartment and advertise as 6 room place for 12 people lol. Airbnb attitude in each case is different and its like a lottery, even for situation when I was left stranded as host didnt answer first time airbnb offered 150EUR compensation then other time they offer 10% of booking compensation booking was 45eur so it would be 4.5EUR lol which wouldnt even cover taxi costs.  other time 50EUR voucher so whatever agent do whatever they want lol, and same with these reviews. They are billions worth company but their support is like kindergarden. Why because competition for them is none another huge company who dont care also for nobody. What is their rating guess what 1.4 from 5!!!  Lol why??? Simple venture capitalists dont know what to do with their billions and pouring in money and all they care is one thing growth!!! More hosts more guests and everything else lets figure out later and this is exactly what is happening, I as a ex host and guest with hundreds of stays both as a host and a guest know inside and out how they work. And system is very weak nobody care about anything one moment you feel like they are perfect and caring next minute or time robotic clueless company  who dont care to explain simple things even.