MAY not be safe or suitable for children - ???

[Andrea9]

Since when does a company have the right to water down my decision that I can't - can NOT, will NOT - host children?

This whole discrimination issue is becoming ridiculous to the point that it is discriminating hosts.

Guests often don't read properly or at all, so why open the door to somebody appearing on your doorstep with a little one while you said you didn't/couldn't host them. There's reason for that, and it's not right to then question that decision and open up doors of 'maybe'. Many, esp. new hosts, don't have the stamina yet to address people directly at the door because they are breaking a rule or two and thus might have to be re-located. This community forum is full of hosts letting themselves be run over and then calling for help.

Seriously, what if a host DID let somebody with a toddler into their non-childproofed home because ABB said 'MAY not be safe....' and the parent decided What the heck, do it anyway, and that child then fell down a long flight of stairs?? or pulled something out of a shelf and something heavy from higher up crashed down on their head??

Would ABB take the brunt? Not sure about that.

I'm saving my energy and not protesting it, but my house rules have a clear NO to children for good reason. And guests automatically accept those too when booking.

My advice to all hosts is to use this option if you're not happy with ABB overriding your decision.

What's next?

There's still a few options open:

MAY be non-smoking

MAYBE no parties or events

MAY not be suitable for pets

[Andrea9]

Can't edit mt post anymore 😕

Meant to say about my house rules that I have added MY OWN statement with a clear NO to children for obvious ant good reason. And since guests automatically accept those too when booking, there's no excuse for MAYbe yes negociations.

[David126]

@Andrea9

Just thought I would mention that I know as well as Holland you have German and Canadian connections, I know nothing about the individual laws in those countries on this subject, somehow I think Germany probably does have lots of regulations.....

I do know that saying no children would not be an issue in other Countries, ABB is US centric so perhaps understandable that everything has to follow.

Logically there should be different sites for different countries depending on local realities, I do see some limted customisation but I am sure if the site had been developed in say Germany the options and choices etc would be different.

[Andrea9]

@David126

I left Germany more than 20 years ago, so can't say much about their regulations. I'm sure they have plenty!!

I left Canada as a teenager, so another pass there.

While the Amsterdam laws on rental are quite strict, esp. renting out an apartment, I have never heard or seen any regulations regarding needing to house children, service animals etc. I think it is because when renting as a private person you may rent out a room in your home as long and as often as you want, but it's entirely up to you who you allow into your home, but never more than 4 guests.

A personally lived in home may not be rented longer than 60 days a year (though many do it illegally - but that's another subject) and here too, it's the hosts choice of who to accept. Also never more than 4 guests or a family with babies or toddlers, let's say 5 bodies in total or 6 including a toddler and a baby.

(Let's leave out the grayish-black segment of all those illegally rented apartments of all kinds in Amsterdam  on the site that break the rules and are now being 'hunted down' by the city  and being fined.)

In a world in which everybody follows regulations that would then leave a limited no. of apartments and other B&Bs with commercial licences. These then would not be able to draw the line so easily. 

It's true about the website being US centric, which is why I was afraid I might have a problem with stating that my room was for female guests. But looks like I'm okag there. For now.

[David126]

It is different, if you live on the property in the US, I do not want to try and parapahrase the Federal regulations, goes back to discrimination, no Blacks, no Irish etc.

Where I am 130 years ago it was also No Italians, No Chinese.

And as usual the rules are political and not thought through. There was a recent example, last week, legislation that allows 9/11 survivors to sue Saudi. Obama blocked it for very good reasons, Congress over rode it. Good politics in an election year

They do not think of the consequences, in this case that the US will be taken to court for their actions. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. So now they are trying to backtrack...

With HUD and ADA it is a known blackmail issue but not high enough on anybodys list of things to sort.

[Andy21]

For us we don't allow children (under 12)

Firstly due to the fact we have 2 dogs and an inherent risk of someone getting hurt e.g. Jumped at when playing

2nd we don't have space for a 3rd person in a room otherwise the guest needs to pay for a full charge 2nd room. We have had guests ask us to allow a child to sleep in the bed for free. We say no as they use water gas electric so sorry they have to pay full.

3rd We don't discriminate we just say no for safety no matter the adult says as if the child got hurt they will or we run the risk of legal action.

[Andrea9]

@Andy21

Exactly and no problem if they raise the subject with you prior to booking and/or arrival. I've heard of so many instances on an international scope of parents just showing up.

So in the end a communication issue.

ABB for misleading by  softening a NO to MAY.

Guest for seeing that and believing they're the exception (and not asking further).

My position is that it helps when hosts are extremely clear in their own part of the house rules in order to rule out the doubts.

[Lawrene0]

@Andrea9, I did add the "not suitable" to my written rules - someone here had suggested it when the "may nots" started showing up on our listings a week or so ago. In my case it is toddlers, because it is a treehouse 10 ft off the ground. I feel, like you, I am making the world a safer place for tykes rather than discriminating against them. But it made me worry, too, that if the company has to say "may not" because of discrimination rules, am I setting myself up in the wider world for being deemed discriminatory because I use firmer language? Do toddlers have every right to fall 10 ft from a porch?

And, yes, we all agree on this forum - it is in every answer to the help!!!! hosts who have been walked all over - that we need to be clear on our listings about boundaries and rules. What sort of further trouble will this clarity get us into?

Thanks for the thoughtful post.

[Ange2]

@Lawrene0   I did the same on my listing re: adding NOT in the rules, but have since deleted it and just left the automated Airbnb MAY NOT as I have yet to determine the legality and or ramifications, even possible lawsuit,  if I state NOT.

[David126]

@Ange2 You live in the property it seems so some things will not apply to you.  More obvious an issue for people renting out whole properties.

[Ange2]

@David126   Thank you, but I still want to be 100% sure. Even if a lawsuit is frivolous it still costs time and money and energy that I would far rather use on things I enjoy.

[David126]

@Ange2

Exactly. Better to be safe than sorry, I see people post about issues they have not thought through, they do not seem to realise they are running a business, even if it is a small one, the issues are the same.

[Lawrene0]

I am about to do the same thing, @Ange2. I am going to reword to make sure it is a sort of "up to you, but if I were a savvy toddler, I would give this place a miss". 

[Ange2]

@Lawrene0   If only savvy toddlers were allowed to make the choices 🙂   All innocence, no graft, it's a start.

[Lois-and-Darryl0]

@Ange2:  I was disappointed with Airbnb when they changed the language on the "NOs" to "may not be suitable."  So, I do make it clear in the language of my listing.  But, I can justify saying that my home is not safe for children.  We have a hot tub and a sauna, either one could severely injure or even kill a child.  In fact, I changed our listing when I learned here on Airbnb about lawsuits filed against Hosts that don't allow children.  I have every right to protect myself from liability by not accepting children.  (I'm not an attorney.)  Good Luck!

Lois & Darryl

Mtn Haven