Airbnb donation: should host and employee lives matter as much?

[Inna22]

It goes without saying that what happened to George Floyd is despicable and this thread is not about that. The question is: should a company that cannot meet contractual obligations to its partners (hosts of colors and backgrounds) and just laid off 1900 humans be giving a half a million dollar donation, no matter how worthy the cause is. For those not aware- Airbnb announced .5 mil dollar donation to Black lives matter

[Anonymous]

@Fred13   You know what the worst time to drop a politically loaded remark is?  Immediately after prefacing it with "_____ is no place for politics."

I agree that this forum is not a suitable venue for nuanced discussions on racial justice movements, especially seeing as how profoundly ignorant even some of our wisest hosting experts are on that particular topic. But to stealthily refer to an organization focused on African-American lives as "wild" (e.g. savage, less than human) is the verbal equivalent of strolling into a crowded elevator in a suit, acting all dignified, then suddenly dropping your pants and defecating just before you get off on your floor. Benefit of the doubt, you may not know that this portrayal of black people has historically been used to justify perpetuating the very brutality that people are protesting against. 

Surely this is not what you meant to evoke, but you're a person with such an otherwise broad vocabulary. Perhaps you accidentally left all your adjectives on that elevator floor too.

[Fred13]

'Wild' as in a bit too varied,  today they drifted into total police-defunding;  tomorrow who the heck knows. I can think of a few other organizations with a more focused and consistent message.

    There lies the 'problem' with discussing politics, anything you say is under a microscope which usually evokes a further reaction which then induces further discussion and before you know it - one gets sucked into it. It is indeed an never-ending subject with no peaceful ending.

    I use to love it, now no fan of.  Looking back it never served to improved my human interaction with people otherwise that could have become very good friends with since we had so many other things in common; perhaps some sort of 'fence' on certain subjects would have lead to at least we becoming very close 'neighbors'.

[Anonymous]

@Fred13  Funnily enough, your explanation illustrates another side of how dropping a provocative sound bite does a disservice to a nuanced concept - and perhaps ultimately offends people who might have been otherwise persuadable. The whole "Defund the Police" slogan sure has become a lightning rod - and I think a lot of people have believed it meant "fire all police officers and shut down law enforcement altogether." The actual words in the petition are the far less catchy "vote no on all increases in police budgets, vote yes to increase spending on Healthcare, Education, and Community Programs that keep Black Communities nationwide safe."  You may or may not agree with that goal, but when you look at the specifics of it, there's nothing particularly radical or "wild" about reforming distribution of civic budgets. In many cities and states, people do actually vote directly on some budgetary changes, and it's rare to see people getting so engaged in the rather boring applications of democracy.

To tie that back to the original topic - this whole conversation started because @Inna22  objects to an institution she feels invested in (Airbnb) directing revenue her work has contributed to (hosting) to causes that she does not feel serves her interests (the NAACP and Black Lives Matter) while inadequately spending on concerns that do (Host support, retaining staff).

The people chanting "defund the police" object to an institution they feel invested in (government) directing revenue their work has contributed to (taxes) to a cause they do not feel serve their community's interests (policing) while inadequately spending on concerns that do (health, education, other community services).  

These arguments are virtually identical in their logic. If one is "wild," surely both are.

[Fred13]

@Anonymous Obviously you seem to adore political discourse, good for you. I once did to, but  nowadays I am being kept quite busy building yet another alternative to life, one in which has been most welcomed by Airbnb guests that have insisted on visiting it every year to get well away from politics, social causes or the present state of American democracy. 

  @Inna22  

My apologies to take a small detour in your thread. I promised a month ago here to post some pictures (granted lousy ones) of what I been up during this total hiatus from society, the above is a small representation; now I do not have to start a new thread.

 

 My biggest hurtle now is what kind of sexy lighting I should use and where; If Rango (the local lizard) is happy with the changes or Miya (resident finch) will be thrilled with her new birdbath.  

[Inna22]

@Fred13 incredible. This is what Paradise must looks like

[Mark116]

Is it really a debatable point that BLM is a controversial organization that has a controversial agenda?  Several cities, LA, NYC and Minneapolis at least, have already said they intend to 'defund' the police to the tune of hundreds of million.  It remains to be seen what the outcome of such a policy would be, but it can't really be fairly argued that this is not a controversial idea. 

[Anonymous]

@Mark116  Is it really a debatable point that US police departments are also, in fact, controversial organizations with controversial agendas?

[Mark116]

@Anonymous  American policing tactics are absolutely controversial, but  that is distinct from the concept of 'defunding the police' and moving to some other model as I can't really see the idea of a police department whose mission is to maintain law and order and arrest criminals is a controversial one.  

[Anonymous]

If you feel that the police are protecting your community from harm, and maintaining law and order, then I can see why this would seem uncontroversial to you.

For millions of people, and especially in communities of color, this is not the case. When you' and your peers are routinely targeted and treated like criminals for no "crime" other than walking down the street or driving to work, and when you find that the presence of police in your neighborhood is escalating conflict and increasing violence rather than preventing it, this is no longer a mere matter of "tactics."

As I quoted above, "defunding police" is really a badly worded shorthand for limiting police budgets and redistributing more funds to institutions that more directly improve people's quality of life. The police are only one piece of the puzzle when it comes to crime prevention and community safety - you also have things like mental health and drug treatment programs, housing assistance, school programs, shelters for domestic violence victims, and many other orgs  that play a big role in addressing the causes of crime. And every single one of those is very frequently "defunded" with far less controversy.  So yes, a system that relies on the last resort (incarcerations and shootings) as a substitute for investing in social welfare is indeed controversial. People in most developed countries find the American model of policing rather absurd.

[Lisa723]

@Mark116 yes, it's true that BLM is a controversial organization, in the sense that it represents positions that many people welcome while many others misunderstand and/or fear. It's also clear that Airbnb with this public donation is advertising which side it wants to be perceived as being on. I can see why members who aren't on that side, or who just don't think corporations should take any public political or moral positions, are upset about it, but I'm not sure Airbnb cares, or should. This (relatively small) donation is in line with its inclusionary brand messaging and I don't see why it surprises anyone. Airbnb may be happy to lose any members, especially hosts, who find it outrageous.

[Helen350]

"which side it wants to be perceived as being on." 

- THAT'S my point @Lisa723 . It's not a question of "sides." I  don't want to be on anybody's "side." I don't want there to be any "side"! We are ALL human beings, of equal value, end of! - Others may carry on being divisive, & categorizing people, but not me! So no singling out one colour for mattering for me! No need! 

I personally am open & welcoming to ALL; in life & in Airbnb-land, following an attitude of anti-racism from childhood onwards. That should be enough for anyone! I object to any attempt to force political correctness  upon me, as if to be TRULY non-racist, you must support BLM or approve a 'check-list' of tick boxes.

I know I'm not racist because of the attitudes I hold in my heart & mind, when in the company of people of a different race. And I 100% support the 'inclusionary brand' of Airbnb. No need to walk away from the 'job' I love!

- I had a Bangladeshi police doctor stay once (Airbnb!) He was literally jumping up & down with excitement,  saying "Isn't it wonderful that I can be here, in your house, and we can be talking together like this?" - Yes, it was!

[Lisa723]

@Helen350 congratulations.

My understanding: BLM is not about you, or even racism generally. It's about the specific problem of unarmed black people being gratuitously brutalized and killed by our police and vigilantes. So, when it comes to the question "Is this a real problem that we really do need to fix, with real action and real resources?" you kind of do have to pick a side. Yes or no? (And, silence equals no.)

[Helen350]

There are other ways of fixing a problem @Lisa723 . Someone who does not want to fix a problem using WRONG methods should not be hated on, or told they are on the wrong SIDE. That's only one way of looking at an issue.

You said "Is this a real problem that we really need to fix? With real action  & real resources." - I can't fix it, can you? Parading in the street won't help, it will only antagonize.... How arrogant, to think that ANYONE can fix this.... Hearts & minds need to change. Tho I dare say some strict rules from above in America's police depts would help keep any racist officers acting lawfully.... I don't see how we in the UK can bring about policy change....

[Rebecca0]

@Helen350 

I find your comments on this subject ill-informed and, frankly, repellent.  The most polite thing I can say is that you will find yourself on the wrong side of history.  

Every time I see the phrase "all lives matter", a little bit of me dies inside.

Please educate yourself.  This analogy that I saw recently might help you:

Imagine you are at the funeral of your child and giving the eulogy on how special the child was to you and your family.  Then someone interrupts you shouting "But all children are special!"

Peaceful protesters across USA are experiencing police brutality as we speak.  And yet your focus is to say "waah waah, what about ME? I've lost money due to coronavirus and now Airbnb is giving money to someone else, waah waah".  Shame on you.

@Verlean1 

It appears your post on here is wasted.  As you must know, there are thousands - if not millions - of people across the world who are standing up and showing their solidarity with BLM.  There will be a protest in my city (Edinburgh, Scotland) on Sunday.  I will be going despite our First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, urging people that mass gatherings are not safe due to coronavirus.

I would add that she also said today that "I have total solidarity with the Black Lives Matter movement. Under normal circumstances I would attend the protest myself".

I am glad, and grateful, that I live in a country governed by someone who believes in democracy and will be shown to be on the right side of history

[Helen350]

@Rebecca0 

I'm gobsmacked by your attitude to me!  You have completely misunderstood me. I write out of LOVE & POSITIVITY, giving what for me is a more positive way of looking at things.....

Your argument only makes sense through the lens of a left-wing way of looking at things. There are equally valid alternative perspectives. 

Your analogy with a dead child doesn't work. ( And if you want to use the specialness of children, I hope you campaign to stop the murder of millions of children that happens every year in the US, UK, and Europe.)

You're wrong that I'm making this about me.... I'm not. But the only way I can illustrate  my undying belief that ALL are equal as human beings, is to use the personal examples given. I can speak from the heart on personal experience, unlike the theoretical political construct of BLM. And if I drop in a hosting anecdote, it's cos THIS FORUM IS ABOUT HOSTING!! (Back to the point!)

What do I have to say to convince you that just because I don't agree with BLM, or the tactic of street protest (which can become violent & anarchistic), does not mean that I think black lives don't matter... Of Course I DO think black lives matter! But you & I have different outworkings of this belief! I have a clear conscience on matters of racism, & I will not be swayed by the ' believe this or you're not truly anti-racist' mob mentality. When I was younger, at university, I would have had  your views.... Now I'm nearly 60, I've mellowed, we all change as we get older!

PS Rebecca, Your words "waaa waaa what about me?" are nasty & spiteful. I DID NOT  say that so you are libeling me. They're also a mis-attribution. I am one of the few hosts who DID NOT think I should be paid for services unrendered. When I agreed with Inna  & Sarah & others that money should not go to a charity when hosts were hurting, it was out of solidarity with hosts who feel hard done by, - even tho I personally accept Covid 19 = no business for a while.

Regarding the 'protests' in Edinburgh... Why? Edinburgh is not part of the USA, so can not influence their politics.Also, HOW UTTERLY SELFISH - & criminal - to attend a mass gathering when we are supposed to be social distancing. Run the risk of mass infections spreading, but hey! Who cares. Protesting the goings on in a foreign country will achieve nothing. If you really want to LOVE YOUR FELLOW MAN - stay at home & don't spread coronavirus!