Checking that guests have had the Covid19 vaccination

[Bryan10]

It looks like there will be a few workable vaccines within the next few months. Yay!  Have you thought about asking if future guests have had the vaccine, so you know that you and co-guests will be safe? Will you insist they've been jabbed before they come? Is there a way for them to prove they've been vaccinated (certificate etc)?  Is it necessary for all your guests to have had the vaccine, if you're not sharing a space?  Should there be a centralised Airbnb certificate for this (like getting verified)? Your thoughts & opinions please! 

[Lisa723]

@Anonymous of course.

The very most I could possibly imagine asking for would be a doctor's note (or if available some kind of certificate) that says "X has been vaccinated or is medically exempt." I certainly would not ask which, much less why-- as you rightfully point out I am not qualified to make such a judgment, even if I didn't grasp the privacy concerns, which I do.

In fact I can't really imagine I would ask for even that, unless the guest was giving me some reason to doubt them. Right now, we are renting only to people already sharing a household, but I haven't yet asked anybody to prove it. (I do not currently even ask for the names of everybody staying, as some hosts do.) In both instances while we "reserve the right" to require proof our fundamental motive is for our property not to contribute to a community scourge, and to attract guests who are similarly motivated while deterring those who are not. Sort of like we hope our driveway camera deters guests who want to have a party, which is vastly preferable to detecting guests who are having a party.

But, I see from your reaction that I might also unintentionally deter guests who can't be vaccinated and don't want to be asked about it, and that I would regret.

[Helen350]

@Anonymous Well, I can't argue with that! - My thoughts that hosts should be allowed to ask re vaccination in order to make an informed choice, re the risk of an individual home sharing with them, was not thought out with any sinister purpose in mind, but merely the pragmatic one of helping hosts choose the risks when accepting or declining a booking.

And I was only suggesting a Yes or No to the Have you been vaccinated question, Not an explanation of why not! - Personally, I have a life-long needle phobia & a history of fainting at injections, including in the line-up at school, not nice! When a hospital Occupational Therapist I had LONG excuse giving sessions with Occ Health, explaining my too wimpiness to accept Hep B vac.....But I forced myself to accept a whole load when I spent a year in PNG. I'm really not keen on the vac this time round from the needle point of view, but I guess I'll force myself; Hope I get a professional doctor/nurse, not a vet, soldier, or hastily trained last minute amateur,😨 🤢😟!

[Anonymous]

@Helen350  I think almost anyone would agree that there are some questions it's not appropriate to ask a prospective guest, even if the information would be useful in "ensuring a good fit." Maybe in the coming year the goalposts will shift, but for the time being I still consider anything related to someone's health and medical history to be out of bounds  -  so until we reach the point where I can manage the risk solely on my own initiative, without intruding on guests' privacy or requesting any kind of medical documents, I am not going to be hosting in-home.

I suspect that when vaccinations take off, Airbnb is going to weigh in with its own policy on what information hosts can and can't request, as it's done in the past with respect to disabilities and discrimination. But anyway, we're quite a long way off from the point where the majority of domestic travelers can be expected to be vaccinated, and longer yet until the same goes for international visitors. So many things will happen in the interim, maybe when we get there we'll have much bigger fish to fry...

[Helen350]

@Anonymous I wonder if you have an American view of privacy (not a criticism) which does not exist in  the UK or dare I say it the rest of Europe?.... (Remembering here the day I attended a medical for foreigners in Germany in 1982! I was shocked at being asked a very personal question at the top of a nurse's voice in front of  a huge room full of strangers. - Perhaps things in Germany have changed since 1982?)

Airbnb introducing a new policy? - Oh no!

[Anonymous]

@Helen350  For me it comes down to context. My privacy expectations in casual social relationships are very different from my expectations in professional ones. 

Also, when hospitality is your profession, the most basic underlying function of the job is to provide comfort. I'd feel pretty bad at my job if I pried in such a way that made a customer uncomfortable before I could even make the sale.

[Helen350]

Good for you @Lisa723 ! I agree!

[Bryan10]

I saw that Quantas airline will be requiring passengers to have the vaccine before they fly.  I wonder if this will be the way forward for the travel & hospitality industry?  I lived in Africa for many years and everyone had to carry a yellow-fever certificate when travelling & crossing a border - I think I can see what's coming.  Covid: Vaccination will be required to fly, says Qantas chief - BBC News 

[Sharon1014]

"Qantas" is the only word in the English language that has no "u" after the "q".  This is because the name Qantas derives from its original full name - Queensland And Northern Territory Airline Service.  Humble beginnings.

I agree that many airlines will require medical certification of vaccination at some point, but tend to think the issue is rather moot at present, and likely to stay that way for 2+ years until such time as vaccine efficacy, dosage/frequency, and guaranteed immunity are proven.  That particular goal post is some distance off, imo. 

And then of course, there is the question of how willing people will be to get the vaccine, even if it is free and widely available.  I'm in the wait and see camp on that one, not inclined to load this body up with something for which the long term side effects of same are not yet known. (And not fond of the current immediate side effects of vaccines currently undergoing clinical trials either).

Certainly is a big issue for all accommodation providers, including ABNB.  And @Anonymous is correct in that there are likely to be legal hurdles surrounding this.

@Bryan10 @Lisa723 @Melodie-And-John0 @Kia272 @Helen350 

[Helen427]

@Bryan10 @Sharon1014 

I believe that the Qantas CEO has a bit of a checkered history.

We had that story in New Zealand News overnight.

I'm somewhat shocked that CEO's of Airlines are not familiar with Pre-exisiting Laws relating to Carriage Laws and the disclosure of Medical Matters prior to Travel, including the reporting of those to Authorities where they are landing withing 15 minutes of landing.

Having seen the Data and Controversy also in recent days about the Maths and Modelling used once again, there's many serious Questions to be answered about the whole chain of events.

BTW, is Boris J back in Self-Isolation?
Interesting timing with that of several Pharmaceutical companies claiming to have found a vaccine.

Perhaps he has pre-existing weak immune system.

Any good investigative Journalists out there willing to seek and find out how many days our Scientists calling the shots and Politicians took off school for Influenza, Colds and Pneumonia as children?

Are you aware that Connor Reed a student who was living in Wuhan, China and frequented there Markets was the first British Citizen who was diagnosed with Coronavirus in Wuhan and went back to Wales to live has died of an "Accidental" death?

Was he on one of the Vaccination Trials?

Very interesting history to his situation and they did state he had Pneumonia back in February.

Pneumonia is not a pleasant infection to have and with a good healthy diet, lots of rest and sunshine one can recovery from it without a Vaccine.

Now about those Tamiflu stocks....

Just wondering how similar the ingredients are btwn them and potential Covid19 Vaccines

[Sharon1014]

It was an education to discover some time back now that having a vaccine (for just about anything) does not necessarily prevent someone from contracting a disease or illness.  Vaccines more typically just lessen the symptoms and degree of illness someone might suffer if they do contract whatever nasty bug besieges their system. 

And now for some science to back that up - (short article/vid clip)

Moderna, Pfizer vaccine does not prevent coronavirus | khou.com

There is much we don't know about the vaccines being trialed.  Would be wonderful of course if they worked first time and were bullet proof, but the reality check is that's unlikely.  One of the reasons clinical trials take years to complete (normally) is that the drug has to be tested over time.  This particular vaccine is being rushed (for good reason of course) but that will still leave a knowledge/experience gap that will later have to be filled in over the course of 3-5 years.

I certainly hope there is some persuasive scientific evidence that can reassure people looking to get vaccinated early.  Nevertheless, lots of questions abound, especially for plane travel or other confined spaces, domestic or international.

@Helen427 

[Melodie-And-John0]

As for the Vaccination conversation-

We had a guest 2 nights ago, a repeat mom of a student in a local college, she was not going to get that vaccine any time soon cause she doesn't trust it and she heard on bookface many times that Bill Gates wants to slip a Microsoft tracking chip into vaccines that go to the masses!!!!!!!!!   She's a nice lady but what she doesn't realize is she's willfully chipped by the same device she counts on to tell her about scary and crazy things on mass hysteria, (I mean social networking) like mass electro marking and marketing of humans to humans of data  (her cellphone tells stories no little chip could think of!!!!

FYI, This is an amazing time to be hit with a 100 year pandemic, the same can be said for many cancers and heart disease.  I work for a chemistry department in a small university that has 10 profs doing research that was once only relegated to giant labs, they are discovering things, stuff and ooze that can and will change and transform the lives of people we know for the better sooner than later. 

Its not that the researchers are more magical in 2020, its their tools that do much of that magic at a Nano level we never imagined we would reach so soon.   They can run 1000 tests in the same time it took to run 10 just 10 years ago or 1/ 25 years ago and multiply that times the thousands of schools and labs large and small across the planet and thats exactly how we get many vaccines that are safe and effective in such a relatively short time.   

I also feel confident that the same trials that happened for the last 75 or so years somewhat accelerated will yield a safe pathway back to normalcy soon.   Stay well until you can get the shot then get it done!  JR

[Sharon1014]

This was a fairly pertinent read from the trenches Why Qantas CEO Alan Joyce’s ‘no COVID vaccine, no fly’ rule won’t work (news.com.au)

In another article, a survey has determined that once a vaccine is available, people are roughly split 1/3 each between

-  Vaccinate

-  Don't vaccinate

-  Wait and see (this lot will likely fall into the "not happening" group at least for a year)

@Melodie-And-John0 

[Helen427]

@Bryan10 @Sharon1014 @Helen350 @Melodie-And-John0 and others, there's some fabulous information from days gone by about Compulsory Vaccines and vaccines in general tucked away in our New Zealand National library. One would reasonably expect similar stories appear in archives in each and every country around the world as those before us 100 plus years ago wrote and kept a wealth of details for future generations to learn and benefit from.

From 1898

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/IT18980816.2.3?

query=compulsory+vaccine+bill

From 1908

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/lyttelton-times/1908/10/10/13

Vaccination Act 1863

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/hawke-s-bay-herald/1864/01/19/2

From 1870

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH18700707.2.12

History of Vaccination Act & Dr Jenner

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/HNS19130805.2.35

Dr Jenner Discovery - including that vaccinations were not intended to be compulsory in 1830's/1840's when the Act was created

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/STEP19130726.2.14

[David192]

I'll answer your questions in the order you have asked them.

Have you thought about asking if future guests have had the vaccine, so you know that you and co-guests will be safe? No, I have not. Why would I? It's none of my business and I really don't care. I've never asked anyone if they have had the annual influenza vaccine, so why would I ask if they have had a Covid19 vaccine? If a prospective guest asked that question of me, I'd tell them to take their business elsewhere (possibly by giving them a demonstration of my fluent Anglo-Saxon).

Will you insist they've been jabbed before they come? Certainly not.

Is there a way for them to prove they've been vaccinated (certificate etc)? Rather a moot point, given that I don't care either way and it is none of my business.

Is it necessary for all your guests to have had the vaccine, if you're not sharing a space? Whether I am sharing a space with them or not, I do not intend to implement vaccine apartheid. Vaxxers, anti-vaxxers, everyone else...they are all welcome.

Should there be a centralised Airbnb certificate for this (like getting verified)? The very idea of a private company maintaining a database of such information horrifies me. It's none of their bloody business.

[Helen350]

Well, you are entitled to your opinion @David192 , but I think it's PERFECTLY REASONABLE to ask for proof of vaccination status. 

I have continued to host when allowed to by UK Gov./Airbnb, because I assume my risk is low. But if I assumed my risk was high, rightly or wrongly, maybe because I had certain medical conditions, was obese, or over a certain age, it would be perfectly reasonable for me to require vaccination in order to protect my health. Or if I had a cancer patient in my household it would be reasonable to want to protect them. 

I disagree with your apartheid analogy. Protecting one's health of the health of a relative/housemate should not be viewed as an act of ill will towards outsiders, imo.

There are hosts on this forum who will not host till the pandemic is past, and their personal risk is nil (or nearly nil.) - That is their choice & their perogative. So should it be the perogative of hosts to mitigate risk by hosting vaccinated guests, not unvaccinated ones.

- Our government reckons everyone will be vaccinated by Easter. (Except a few selfish, awkward sods, or conspiracy theory nutters!)