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Welcome to the Community Center! I'm @Bhu...
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Hello everyone!
Welcome to the Community Center! I'm @Bhumika , one of the Community Managers for our English Community Ce...
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I rented a property a few miles outside of Taos for a month to work quietly and remotely in Covid times. I drove from Wisconsin and when I got to the property it was so off the beaten path, I was given coordinates by the owner (who lives in Tennessee) to find it. It was still light out and I was having a difficult time finding the property. There were some paved roads, but my GPS was also telling me to go through mud roads. It had recently snowed and thawed-the entire area was a mud pit. My prius got stuck in the mud and neighbors thankfully helped me out, as the sun was setting, I was all alone and tow companies were either closed or said they didn't have the capacity to help with mud tows (which I found surprising). After I got out, the neighbors took me to a road they thought was the right one. I got stuck again and now it was dark and was totally alone. Crying, I walked in the mud to a trailer and knocked on the door. The neighbors revealed they had covid but would try and get someone to help. Thankfully, they did and I was pushed again out of the road. I decided to get a motel room and demand from the owner someone accompany me to the property in the morning, which he complied to. The next day his very nice property manager drove me to another mud road that I had to turn down to get to the property-the owner said it was paved. The mud was so thick, my car would never have made it and even the property manager said his truck was having trouble. All during a month it was going to snow and thaw-this means I would have been stuck there, literally. I was able to get a full refund but after spending 200 on motels, probably damaging my car and not being able to rent anything else in the area affordably-I had booked this place in the summer. I'm thankful to have gotten a refund but I'm not even allowed to leave a review or warning for others? I checked the listing again-even after this incident, he still "recommends" 4WD for " bumpy, dirt" roads. That's not what this was. My prius could have handled that. I have used Airbnb for many years with mostly no issues, except for horrible customer service. This feels really shady. Anyways-I had nowhere else to get it off my chest. I'm still shaken up and have to drive down to Albuquerque where I could find an affordable place with help from a family member.
@Lisa723 True, people associate New Mexico with aridity, but Taos is a SKI AREA! = Heavy precipitation, which of course will fall & melt in the Fall, between seasons!
@Helen350 Yes, I have skied at Taos. Precipitation patterns in the western US are different from those in the UK. In the mountains, snow accumulates in the late fall and winter, and melts in spring and early summer. The form precipitation takes depends on altitude.
This thread has gone off the rails. Yes, the OP obviously could have been more careful about her driving plan, and no doubt she will be in future. (She's from Madison, WI, so presumably is very familiar with severe weather of all kinds and the implications for driving conditions.) This doesn't justify the names you have called her, nor does it absolve the host of responsibility for ensuring guests have the information needed to arrive safely.
first it seems to me that the host should have assisted better to arrive at home. Furthermore, even a Fiat Panda can be 4wd, with snow, ice or mud it may not be enough. For me the announcement should more clearly say that it is not only recommended but absolutely necessary to use a 4wd and especially after rain or snow. And perhaps it is not enough in some cases because some particular roads also require a driving ability in extreme situations that not everyone has, I would also have specified that an higher than normal driving ability and quality of the car could be needed.
It wasn’t advertised as such. It was 5 miles from the city center. And I got a full refund which I think means he knows he screwed up. I don’t know that terrain or where the place was located and it wasn’t explained
@Lauren2655sometimes in life we have to go backwards to go fwds, that is probably more relevant to those of us living in cities than those in the more natural countryside environment.
Cities were once rural locations & roads started off as bridal tracks where horses & bullocks transported people across the miles in much harsher times of living.
They then became a smattering of stones/ gravel mixed in clay, mud etc before concrete roads & tarseal.
Your story reminds me of a story I read, with photographs of New Zealand roads not that many years ago where small sized cars got stuck.
There's lessons for everyone with super size me vehicles, tarseal & concrete jungles everywhere & what we expect in our lives and balancing out with "nature" and a quiet rural environs which have been encroached on by human beings.
Interestingly we have an exhibition on the many varied materials used over the years for footpaths/ carriageways at our Central Auckland Library that a wise gentleman long time associated with Auckland Museum gathered & created over the years & which by chance came across this last week.
It's a little like people saying there's a bear in my backyard where places have taken over our animals natural habitats.
In general terms to all, Next time you are out driving, or walking, look around, observe what is there & be thankful for what you have you could be trying to walk in knee deep mud to go to the shops, which carried far less provisions that we have today, like those before us 100 yrs ago.
Note also which trees are where that were planted at main location points for our betterment with navigating where we are both on land and at sea.
In New Zealand they are often a Norfolk Pine tree that stands tall in the distance at a road intersection where Bridal Tracks & dirt roads were first created.
See my reply to @Helen350
All the best
Note, we don't have bears in NZ!
I agree with both @Mark116 and @Helen350 . The host did his best to describe the property and land, and you choose to book this trip. Guest have to be responsible for the decisions that they choose to make, and not expect a host to know everything or have all the answers...especially for a future occurrance totally out of their control.
Research is key, especially if one is going into a remote area.
The host was very accomodating to refund you.
@Lauren2655 I still don't understand how you reached the conclusion that you aren't permitted to leave a review. What is that based on?
Commentary on a specific listing has no practical use to anyone else if it's not in the review of that listing, so I'm not sure what you're getting at with this "how to warn others" thing. But you say that the listing was unreviewed at the time you booked it - so you took a pretty big leap of faith there.
A new listing in a remote location, no reviews, recommending a 4WD due to being on an unpaved road - I can't quite imagine what was going on in your head when you thought "this would be the perfect place to drive alone across the country to in my Prius." It's unfortunate that the host didn't anticipate in July what the road conditions would be like after a snow melt, but you could have spared yourself a lot of hassle if you'd been more thoughtful in your decision-making process.
@Anonymous ,
you are right but it is much easier and correct to indicate in the description that the road in some climatic conditions is very difficult to travel even with a 4wd vehicle. To recommend a 4wd vehicle seems to me a too general advice, there are many types of 4wd vehicles and roads.
@Francesco1366 I'm not defending the host here - and without seeing the listing, I have no idea what wording he actually used to convey how to access the property. But if you know the road is unpaved, it should be instantly apparent that weather conditions can easily make it inaccessible. There are millions of listings available on paved roads for those who don't want to take that risk, but people often overestimate their intrepidness.
If Airbnb were a platform that vetted and verified all of its listings before they went live, it would be outrageous for a new, unreviewed listing to not live up to expectations. But @Lauren2655 is an experienced Airbnb host who shouldn't have any illusions about how this works.
I know what it's like to take a big risk in life and basically faceplant, but I also have to accept some responsibility for my own failures, when safer choices were available.
@Anonymous,
I agree. But I like to point out host failure: because he is the one offering a service and getting paid, that's the biggest and most important failure in that deal. So much so that he lost his money and probably would have had to repay even more elsewhere.
Assuming that the description of the ad is as indicated here, the host's failure is not having properly described the real situation of that street in his ad. It rains many days a year, in some areas it snows even more often. If I don't explain the conditions of that road in those climatic conditions and I only explain it in good weather, it's a huge failure.
I don't want to defend the host but instead the guest. An unpaved road means little. I know unpaved roads that hold water and snow well, eg. The description has to be as complete as possible and must clearly indicate all the particular defects even if they seem obvious. We must have no doubts about this when we rent an house on Airbnb to complete strangers who have never seen it.
@Francesco1366 Your listings don't appear to have any reviews yet. It remains to be seen whether your future guests feel you've properly disclosed everything they might regard as a defect, but in all likelihood you will be constantly refining your listing texts as you get feedback on that.
Your listing descriptions do give the impression that you know your location well, but you know full well that anyone can buy a property anywhere and throw it up on Airbnb without acquiring the local expertise to know something like how climate conditions will affect the roads servicing it. I can't really say based on the story here whether the host was intentionally misleading guests, but it's possible that he wasn't aware of how defective the access would be under conditions he hadn't experienced.
In that sense, he and his unfortunate guest are evenly matched in the fact that neither of them did their homework - they both made ill-informed decisions, took unwise risks, and suffered the consequences.
If there's a useful warning embedded in all this, I'd say it's that you should either book an established place with consistent reviews, or ask a lot of questions and research carefully. Otherwise, you're just transacting with a random stranger from the internet, which we should all know is about as "safe" as a Craigslist hookup.
@Anonymous I meant legally detectable defects (eg a very difficult road) and therefore capable of obtaining even a partial refund. All the houses are full of posible defects. Mine too.
I rent these houses on many other places and have feedbacks. I think the descriptions are complete but you are right: they need constantly refining and sometimes I did after reviews.
I still think the same. If I rent on Airbnb an house reachable via an unpaved road that becomes very difficult to travel with rain or in a particular condition, I have to specify it in the description. At least I have to inform the guest clearly: with the rain, or snow or by night, my house is a mess to reach! I'm sure you would appreciate it.
It seems to me my warning is best than yours. The ad is its description, not the reviews. You have to create an ad understandable even without reviews. The host remains guilty also if he is not aware of how defective the access is under conditions he has never experienced. He is responsible for the ad and has to know the house well as how to reach it. If he has never stayed home during rains, is he not responsible for water entering the roof? Absurd.
You nit pick @Francesco1366 . @Anonymous is spot on!
"4WD recommended" is all you need to say, as @Mark116 has said. It is nit-picking to say "4WD recommended" is not strongly worded enough. There is no need for the host to patronize guests by spelling out "You really must have a full 4WD or you won't make it." "4WD recommended" explains the situation and sensible drivers will understand that the more ground clearance the better.
So the OP travelled from Wisconsin to Taos, which I've googled and found to be in New Mexico? - But not the desert-y part, it's a ski resort, apparently = precipitation/freeze/thaw in the Fall. So you'd expect dirt roads to be mud at that time of year, between summer & the frozen winter?
Guests absolutely should do their homework, and make a judgement as to their ability to cope with conditions. All Airbnb listings have a goog le map attached; guests need to study it!
Perfect for host! The guest has to do the host's homework. OK perfect.
@Francesco1366 No! - It's the GUEST'S responsibility to assess the situation and see if the Airbnb meets their needs, which includes "Do I have appropriate transport to get there safely, be able to make trips out to other places, and leave when the contract is up?"