Airbnb not supporting the homeowners

[Kristen63]

I have a complaint...and since I can't find an "easy" way to get a hold of AirBNB...I'm going to put it out here and see if anyone else has had these issues.

I have it stated specifically in my renters agreement that if a guest smokes or brings a pet in in my cabin, they will be charge $500 for cleaning and inconvenience fees...as I usually have guests that come in back to back and it can be difficult to clean in that fast of a turn around.  I had a guest smoke in my cabin....I provided proof to Airbnb.  They informed me that they could not "enforce" my renters agreement (even though the guest had signed it)....they did however, provide me with $125 towards the cleaning.  I was satisfied with this and we all moved on.

Last week, a fellow home owner had a guest that trashed his place....they didn't break anything but they left a mess that included a stack of dishes on multiple levels, with food caked to them, and toilet paper lying all around...just to mention a few things.  This mess took about 2-3 hours to clean up.  When we charge  a "cleaning" fee this includes linens and towels (which by the way are very expensive)....washing those, dusting, cleaning toilets, showers, washing floors, vacuuming.....things that would take about an hour to hour and a half to complete.  It was such a mess that the homeower had to pay an additional fee to the cleaners to clean up after these guests.  The homeowner had pictures and contacted airbnb.  Airbnb states that because we charge a "cleaning" fee that he was not able to collect from the guest to cover the additional cost of the clean up.  

Where is airbnb when it comes to supporting the homeowners from guests like this?  They say that this home owner had to state to the guest that they had to wash dishes or they would be charged an extra fee.....however, I told the guest that if they smoked in my cabin that they needed to pay me $500....and that didn't happen...so obviously, it doesn't matter if you state it or not...you don't get it.  So I feel like I'm kind of at a loss.....the guest seem to be able to do whatever they want to do.  Airbnb told the homeowner the the deposit was only for broken items.....and it doesn't seem to matter that they homeowner was out extra money because he had to pay an additional cleaning fee...he obviously had damages.

So once again I ask....how do you protect yourself from guests like this?  Obviously Airbnb doesn't support the homeowner.

[Annette33]

@Kristen63, I gave your issues quite a bit of thought - we all end up in this kind of situation sooner or later, And I commiserate with you! Here are a few ideas, hope you consider them helpful:
1.) I don't expect Airbnb to help me out when problems arise, I read enough here in the forums to know that such support is rather iffy, so I focus on what I can and need to do myself. We pay Airbnb 3% in service fees, they are our booking agent to bring us the guests, not to micro manage every detail of a guest's stay - that is our part . Good for you that you actually got $125 out of them, though your security deposit is only $100.
2.) In your listing I see a $200 fine for smoking or bringing in pets, not $500. Irregardless, that threatened fine is outside the Airbnb platform and just not enforcable, as any renter's agreement you draw up is between you and the guest, Airbnb is not involved. If you have a signed agreement by a guest, your course of action is to take them to small claims court, otherwise it remains an empty threat.
3.) There is some leverage in putting things into your house rules. If those are broken, you can exoect Airbnb to support you. Maybe clarify those house rules and expand, perhaps also raise your security deposit.
4.) Overall, I see more problems the more people are allowed into a space. You allow up to 8 people, for  2 beds, then sofa lodging. would you consider limiting the amount of guests to 6, perhaps even  only 4?  You might just about get the same $$ intake, but a lot more peace of mind.
5.) Quite a few of the issues we may encounter as hosts will always be part of the "cost of doing business", and we just need to deal with it, pay for it, and thus occasionally have to accept less profit from one rental than from others. I owned a retail business, some people, not even paying customers, brought in dirt, slush, and messed up the place. Compensation? none. occasionally there were thefts: if not part if a break in, the insurance companies don't pay for that - it's all part of doing business. Like that, as Airbnb hosts we are self employed, in the business if renting out our space, thus there are things nobody will compenssate us for.
Put it behind you - and Good luck on your future hosting.

[Kristen63]

Hi Annette,

I'm not sure if you are working for Airbnb or if you are an actual homeowner based on your response.  Unfortunately, your response wasn't particulary helpful. 

1)I don't expect Airbnb to solve all of my problems, however when they are the ones that are holding the deposit, then they are the ones that need to be addressed.  A deposit is held when there are extra costs that are incurred by the homeowner that the guest is responsible for.  This includes if something is damaged.....or if something is left in such a mess that it took 3 cleaners 3 hours to clean up.  Unfortunately, this was on a turn, so there was a guest that was scheduled to come in at 4 pm.  This is also Airbnb's reputation if they were unable get the cabin cleaned up in time.  To me it is deceiving to say that there is a deposit...but it can only be used if something is broken.

2) Why bother having house rules.....have the guest sign the form if it can't be enforced anyway.....Basically Airbnb is just a forum to bring guests and homeowners together....and that's fine if that's all they do...but don't advertise that they help protect the homeowner and they hold a deposit etc etc....if that truly isn't the case.  You think you are protected, but when it comes down to it and you ask for the deposit.....well you are screwed.  So lets just be honest.

3)I had stated my rules........the guest signed the form stating that he read the rules and he agreed to them....but then Airbnb says they can't enforce it....so don't advertise that you do enforce/support...because they don't.

4) Ironically.......there were only 3 people in my cabin when they disregarded the rules and smoked.  I have actually had better luck with families with more people than the small group that stayed at my place....so that theory doesn't work.

5) As far a "cost of doing business".....I don't know about you....but I'm not rich...by the time I pay the mortgage, the  electric bill, the HOA dues, the gas and the maintenance, towels and linens.....I don't have much $ room for "guests" that come in to my place and trash it.....hence the reason for the deposit.......so tell me again why the deposit can't be used for extra cleaning fee?

I like to learn from my mistakes....so I will put this behind me...but I will learn from it and be looking for a website that stands by their promises.

[Annette33]

@Kristen63 ,  I don't work for Airbnb, But I am a home owner, and like you, I'm not rich.  The Airbnb deposit never gets collected from Airbnb ahead of a stay, it's just an amout they have access to when a home owner makes a claim and they decide  to honor it. Your listed security deposit through Airbnb is $100, yet you got $125 from them, which is actually more than your listed security deposit. You need to raise your security deposit with them if you need more.

 or perhaps, like David suggested, take it all into own hands, collect an outside deposit from your guests  and then don't  pay it back when stuff happens. 

Sorry I wasn't particularly helpful to you, I just tried.....

[Colleen47]

I realize thus is an old thread however, i have to say My experience has been different. I tend to draw parties, bachelor parties, college groups etc. these guests have their typical mess, but they always take responsibility for damages. I'm not referring to toilet paper on the floor or muddy shoe prints everywhere (even though no shoes inside). I'm talking broken couch legs, blood stained blankets, gashes to cabinets, and carvings on my counter tops. My thought is if I can take care of it myself they're not going to pay. No extra cleaning fees! If i have to replace to hire someone to fix, then I'll charge. Extra effort is part of the game. I totally agree with @Annette33

[Branka-and-Silvia0]

@Kristen63

.......I don't expect Airbnb to solve all of my problems, however when they are the ones that are holding the deposit, then they are the ones that need to be addressed. .....

I absolutly agree. if hosts would keep security deposit then they wouldn't need Airbnb involvment and guests would be more carefull.

The worst part is that Airbnb doesn't allow hosts to collect security deposit outside the Airbnb and to protect their property.

[Alice-and-Jeff0]

You know @Kristen63, Airbnb tells you right up front that they will not enforce any third-party contract. https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/465/can-hosts-ask-guests-to-sign-a-contract

And you don't mention in your listing that you require someone to sign it, nor disclose the terms.  It doesn't surpise me at all that Airbnb didn't help you. 

[Kristen63]

First of all....it isn't a contract....it's my house rules (which are listed on the site )....by signing it they acknowledge that they have read the rules......understand the rules.....and agree to the rules.  If they don't want to sign it...they are free to "not book"....that is their choice ....but the rules that I have set up are not unreasonable.

Since it's my house rules I do think that Airbnb should help.  A guest should not leave a place so trashed that it took 3 people 3 hours to clean it up....and since there was another guest coming in that day...there was urgency to it....that's why they had to hire a third person to help. 

Once again....I don't have a problem with Airbnb NOT helping....if thats how they advertise themselves.  They should just state that they are there to get the guests and homeowners together.....but they don't.  I'm sorry....in my opinion the "trashed" out mess caused "damages"....extra money that had to  be paid out in order to put it back into order.  The fact that the deposit doesn't help pay for the extra cleaning cost in my opinion is fraudulent!!!!!

[Alice-and-Jeff0]

You just added rules since I posted.  I went to your listing originally and there was only a small blurb: "Guests must be 25 years or older to book. There will be a fine of $200 if guests have violated the no smoking or no pet rule."  And I recall that so specifically because the $200 price tag noted was not the same as the $500 you claimed in your complaint and I started to say something about that but stopped.  

Now that you've added this "contract"  - which it clearly is because you call it a "Rental Agreement" - please note that if your agreement violates any of Airbnb's TOS, they will not enforce it like your age restriction, any of the bit about the deposit, the balance clauses, the cancellations and refunds, falsified reservations, or your indemnification clause. 

If the key issue was the cleanliness of the property, there is nothing in this list that I can see that indicates the quality of the cleaning can result in being fined... there's a note about taking the trash out and there's a blurb about an additional cleaning fee that is open to interpretation.  It says that there are "departure instructions" which I assume will be posted in the cabin.  I might suggest you add this list to your House Manual so the guests can see in advance what will be required of them.  

[Kristen63]

Yes....I did just add it to the posting so that guests know what I expect.  After the issue that my neighbor had with their cleaning and other issues that I've seen posted on here...I figured I better post it on my listing.  If guests have a problem with it ....they don't have to rent.  The reason why I manage my own listing is so that I have control over it.  I won't let a management company or AIRBNB dictate to me how I'm going to run my vacation rental.

I have rented to people under 25......but I'm very cautious to do so.  We had people under the age of 25 "spring breakers" stay at our resort (another cabin)...they stole the patio furniture and towels plus trashed the cabin.  When it was addressed, they basically told the homeowner "good luck" getting anything out of us.

Anything that I put in the "Rental Agreement" was my house rules.  Everybody gets the form....whether they are booking through VRBO, Airbnb, or directly.  The payment terms are stated mostly for the guests that book directly through me....as AIRBNB and VRBO have their own terms.  Anything that I have listed in my house rules are fair and legit.  As a homeowner, I should be able to expect that my guest is going to leave my home in a reasonable state.......and AIRBNB should support this.  The cleaners are paid $80...this includes washing and drying towels and linens, cleaning toilets, tubs, making beds, dusting, vacumming and cleaning the floors.....in essence, this should take about an hour to an hour in an half.  It is unreasonable to think that a guest can leave a weeks worth of dishes, pots and pans with "cake on" disgusting food (especially when there is a dishwasher available)this was left on all 3 levels of the cabin, leave toilet paper under the bed and strewn across the bedroom floor, a chair was thrown on it's side....as well as many other "little" things.  When all was said and done, the cleaners had to hire an extra person and it took 3 of them 3 hours to clean the cabin, as there was a guest that was coming in at 4pm. 

That is unreasonable......there were pictures provided to AIRBNB......all I'm saying is when a guest does this type of thing to a homeowners place, AIRBNB should back the homeowner.  If they don't, then they should not advertise that they do....because basically all they do is bring the guests and homeowners together on a website.

So I guess you can "knit pick" my listing all day long.....what it comes down to is common sense....which is clearly lacking this day and age.  I have been very fortunate that I have had good guests...but if I do have the misfortune of having a bad guest like this...I would hope that AIRBNB would support me.  From seeing others experiences posted on here....I can see that wouldn't happen.  So I will be picky.....and I will take extra precautions to make sure that I don't get "bad guests".

[Marcus50]

Hi Kristen, I understand your frustration. its really sad how Airbnb treating the homeowner, I have even tried to make a comment on your message Airbnb blocked me from doing so ... so Airbnb trying to hide all these issue .. here this is the message  i got when i tried to reply to this post ;

An Unexpected Error has occurred.

• Your request failed. Please contact your system administrator and provide the date and time you received the error and this Exception ID: 776630C9.

  Click your browser's Back button to continue.

i have been having the same issue Airbnb doesn't care at all..

[MaryJo2]

Kristen - I think you are being very smart to be cautious so the best of luck to you with all your future guests. 

It should be obvious to all hosts that we are on our own when it comes to successfully communicating any type of more than the ordinary damage to

airbnb  

[Annette33]

@Kristen63 , lots of us hosts can relate to your frustration with Airbnb, but the point is to find constructive ways on how to deal with it. I would hope that beyond continuing to vent about Airbnb you'd want to get some feedback on what is possible on the Airbnb platform and what isn't :

1.) Most of what you put into your now changed and very extensive house rules will not be backed by Airbnb : you simply cannot arbitrarily change the "strict cancellation" rule (50% refund if cancellation happens less than 7 days before check in) you have in place with Airbnb into something whereas you decide by yourself not to do any refund at all if a guest cancels with less than 28 days to go until their stay.   

2.) House rules are mean to be clear directives  guests are supposed  to adhere to. In case of an infraction, it will ultimately be up to Airbnb to decide if and how much they will compensate you for. To write out a catalog of fines ,with dollar amounts of your own choosing, will not  be backed by Airbnb. You do say that mostly those terms are for people who book directly with you, not for your Airbn  guests. why have it in your house rules then? It only makes you mad at Airbnb, plus it will keep people from booking with you - and not just the 0.1% that you don't want, but perfectly reasonable people who would actually be good guests., just saying......

3.) We all have ideas of what is "reasonable", "unreasonable" or "common sense", doesn't mean the next host or Airbnb will agree to that.

4.) All in all, it seems to me that the Airbnb platform is too restrictive for you and you'd be happier to host either all by yourself or through other booking  agencies.

[Bruce43]

@Annette33 now that was a good post! 

just saying, I did the math and agree 100%

we need before and after pictures of Airbnb's hosts.

now that is an idea

[Alice-and-Jeff0]

@Kristen63 - The point I'm making for you is that you didn't have these items in the terms up front.  Now you do.  That's a good start.  As you mention, VRBO and Airbnb are not the same.  They are different entities and have different procedures to follow.  As a business owner, you need to work within their guidelines if you want to have their support. You are getting closer here with adding that the guests must sign a rental agreement before being allowed on the property.  I also understand that you just cut and pasted it into your house rules.  You need to spend some time here and understand what Airbnb is going to support by way of your house rules that do not violate their Terms of Service.  Just because you put it in your house rules won't make them side with you if it already is against one of their policies - as a matter of fact - it can ultimately get you kicked off the platform.  

You don't need to post the entire rental agreement, btw, only post that there is a rental agreement and it must be signed by the guest in advance of occupancy.  As Airbnb notes, they are not going to enforce it for you.  They will not even provide you with the information necessary to proceed with a legal claim against the renter that violates some part of the agreement that is not part of the Airbnb TOS.  I understand that it's a tough thing, for sure, because you WANT them to be your enforcement agency for your personal rules.  

If Airbnb doesn't work for you and you feel unsupported, I totally understand not continuing to use their services.  That's a burden they have to bear, the loss of your property for their company.  But as an owner, you get to choose, every day, who you do business with and they might not be the company for you.  Some times you have to vote with your feet.  Good luck.