Calling Airbnb to revise host obligation to Covid-19 safety measures on basis of it being discriminatory and excluding to hosts and guests of shared houses

[Yariv3]

Dear Community members,

Hope this finds you smiling.

I felt it is important to address the latest Airbnb strict obligation to follow the Airbnb Covid19 policy by Nov 20th, or risk expulsion,

particularly with regards to shared houses.

That is because the policy is not realistically applicable to shared houses, therefor discriminates its hosts and guests. 

Airbnb places hosts of shared houses between a rock and a hard place;

Either agree to the policy (that cannot be realistically applied) and compromise their integrity,

or,

Not agree and risk loosing their livelihoods.

I don't think this is how "a community based on trust" should go about things.

Firstly, because it excludes many members of the community, hosts and also guests who can only afford (and prefer the experience of) shared houses.

Secondly, because this policy is extremely one sided in the way it is enforced. It inevitably makes hosts and guests feel that their needs and contributions are being ignored by Airbnb.

Did anyone at Airbnb consider that the policy in question discriminates the least privileged of travelers? That after a terribly hard year it might destroy what little is left of hosts with shared houses? That effectively some hosts would have to be dishonest to keep having food on the table? Is this in line with Airbnb values?

As this is a community based on trust, Airbnb should trust hosts and guests to know and act responsibly. As a host of a shared house in an area with many others like me I can testify that we adhere to local Covid19 regulations, we minimize guest occupancy according to local directives, we insist on tests taken by guests with possible symptoms, we block the calendar when there is a risk or prepare to quarantine the house when necessary, we enhance cleaning efforts and prefer long-term guests, we respect the curfew directed by local authorities and prohibit visitation of non-guests, along with many other important measures.

Guests and hosts are responsible community members and should be trusted by Airbnb, rather then being treated so forcibly with the harshest of measures (exclusion and loss of income).

It is important to acknowledge that other measures, more inclusive, are available to Airbnb regarding the Covid19.

For example, hosts who can and wish to apply the Airbnb Covid policies can gain a badge,

making it possible for guests to choose according to their judgment.

A more severe measure would be to have a Covid19 warning badge "shared house".

Both these measures, one lite, the other harsh, maintain us as a trusted and trustworthy community and more importantly do not make the community feel untrusted and policed with parts of the community ignored and excluded.

I understand the Covid19 time has been difficult on Airbnb, all community members have experienced Airbnb's hardships when interacting with Airbnb lately.

I wish Airbnb management will see that maintaining the inclusive core values of the community is the way to get through these times.

The exclusion and antagonization of hosts and guests, I am sure, is not in the best interest of Airbnb, as they will leave, or even take legal action, as a group/individuals within the community will suffer loss of income as a result of the new policy.

I suggest Airbnb trust its community members, trust that they are responsible and law biding, treat them with the care expected of and by a community of wonderful people who love hosting and travel and making others happy. This was the spirit that made Airbnb grow and losing this spirit might do the opposite. No one has anything to gain from the demise of Airbnb (except for its competitors). I personally wish to see a happy healthy community moving forward.

In light of the above I call on Airbnb to revise said obligation.

Thank you for taking the time to read this,

Yariv 

@Brian

@Stephan-And-Skye0

@Laura3135

@Helen427

@Mike-And-Jane0

[Anonymous]

@Francesco1366  Local laws automatically supersede all Airbnb policies whenever applicable, and the Terms of Service are explicit about that. 

Hosts are having a hard enough time keeping up with constantly changing local laws and restrictions; Airbnb is certainly not simplifying matters by imposing another layer of regulations and penalties. Meanwhile, every day thousands of illegal stays are booked against orders meant to curtail tourism and reduce virus spread.The message seems to be: "government orders don't apply to us because we're self-regulating...and by self-regulating we mean that hosts clicked a button."

[Francesco1366]

I honestly don't understand what this comment has to do with what I wrote. You said everyone who rent a shared house should close. I said instead that if the laws allow it they can remain open and must be respected. I  said that the laws matter !! And not to consider those who remain open as spreaders of the virus! Definitely not respectful! They are working respecting the law!

So if you are sure in Italy, in Brit, in Australia or in a country Is forbidden to rent shared houses, please let us know. Anyway continue to speak about what you prefer...@Anonymous 

[Anonymous]

@Francesco1366  I really don't know how to respond to you sometimes, because I have to recognize that as a non-native speaker, the language barrier is having a massive impact on your experience in this community. You're often making intensely impassioned responses to comments that it's obvious to everyone except you that you've totally misunderstood. And that's totally fine, except then you also feel the need to make every topic about you and you persecution complex, and it really just feels like a narcissistic derailing. 

Seriously, man, people who have actually been with Airbnb for a long time unlike you, with your zero reviews, have some issues with a radical change in the relationship between independent operators and their listing service. This topic might become relevant to you at some point, if you actually start hosting Airbnb guests rather than being a faceless sycophant.

[Francesco1366]

@Anonymous 

I don't think it is only fault of language barrier. I'm sorry. Sometimes I'm completely wrong, probably with this comment.

Seriously, man, don't you realize that you (most of you) have a highly prejudicial attitude? The super host is a superhero who must necessarily clean perfectly against every pandemic! The guest who gets bogged down on a road that also the host didn't know, he has the half responsability with the host. I have no reviews, in two days someone told me that I abuse women, that I am stupid and that I have to go back to Italy! Obviously in the meantime I have suffered more pleasant prejudices, like you clearly indicate in your comment. Anyway do what you prefer. And of course I can be wrong.

You answer me here because you have probably chosen my most rambling message. Your answer is not polite. Really not polite. We exchanged a lot of good comments since few days ago. But it is clear that you are here only to teach, at least with me: you never reply to certain comments unless you have the sensational answer. If you want to have a chat with me, to know me, answer to other my comments. For example in a post where we spoke about laws and you completely ignored me. If you want to play correctly with me let me know if you continue to think that it is correct to rely only on the local laws about cleaning rules when many governments are clearly incapable, dictatorial or even criminal. You can answer, not answer. Ignore me. Do what you prefer. But please don't play humiliating me. This is what you are doing now with the force of your reliability and what others did with the same force. How? Few hours ago they attacked my comments in defense of the magnificent Super Host with many reviews. They do not let the Super Host answer, the police intervene not responding on the merits but repressing.

There is no doubt. Contact me privately, choose a psychologist and I'll gladly pay him to prove it to you. Sure can prove a lot about me.

[Emiel1]

@Yariv3 

I like the idea of the badge, leaving the choice to the guests  !

A lot of host are taking care seriously of handling COVID related (cleaning)-issues, but are not willing to sign up to the protocols. Those listings must not be blocked, but guests should be able to distinguise them from the "protocol" listings and be aware of the difference.

On Twitter it is easy to setup a poll for voting pro/con, but this community does not provide a poll facility.

What exactly is your main resistance against the protocol ?

[Helen350]

@Emiel1 My resistance is

1) Too much work for  a £20 room for one night! (Sometimes I spend 4 hours cleaning the whole house before a guest arrives; sometimes I just clean the bedroom & make the bed in 20 mins.)

2) Not possible to clean rooms other than bedroom & not re-enter the space in a small home share. (A lot of UK homes are small.)

[Emiel1]

@Helen350 

The Cleaning Protocol is only window dressing, same as the Superhost medal. My guests are not interested in it or do not even recognize it. I am on same price-level as you, my rooms are clean and all official rules and precautions are followed. Experienced hosts should not be patronised by a booking platform on how we clean or live in our own houses, let alone threatening us by closing our listings. We are not their employees.

So provide a BIG badge on the listings who are commited to the CP and an ever bigger medalion the profile of those hosts, so guests can make their own decision where to book.

[Laura3135]

We have properties in a family trust thats rented out, my husbands brother that is a property lawyer never liked Aibnb... he said it was a high risk investment.. looking at the last year i think he is right...

Ive Airbnb my lower part of my house (home) over the last year for a bit of pocket money ,  and ive really enjoyed it, I have loved having all sorts of guests and even more into my home, and i know they have loved it as we have never had a bad comment...

Due to this new enhanced cleaning process, unlike every other listing like ours in our area,  that has already agreed to it.... its not realistic for us...

we will bow out.

@Anonymous  thankyou Andrew for your advise and help on threads , A+++

@Francesco1366  everytime i see you post as you are new,  it seems you dont really know what you are talking about.... and you would rather just be on this for a bit of a fight with other hosts... get some experience rack up your good reviews then tell us how it is?

[Francesco1366]

Ridiculous comment about me. You are the classic that would follow the leader because he has a nice uniform. It seems to me. I have much more experience than you, even in community, and it's clear from what you write. Please note I'm not the only one to think you are wrong. About what? You can just read my comment and reply. But sure it's easier to speak badly for a uniform... @Laura3135 

[Francesco1366]

This message from @Laura3135  discriminates me because I do not have connected houses and reviews.  So, you who talk about discrimination, can you recognize it? This is the only discrimination visible here but you don't care. Why don't you answer my messages and instead discriminate? This community is **bleep** as the rest of the world. 

@Yariv3, @Anonymous, @Helen350, @Sarah977 and other reputable users who have passed through here. 

[Cathie19]

Hi @Laura3135 . Sorry to hear you feel you can’t host for the time being. 
The fact that you offer some kitchen appliances in the space, and have a bbq, does make it possible to separate for safety. 
Maybe  if you blocked extra days either side of the booking, this would allow a greater safety time allowance for entering before cleaning. Wear I need to wash fabric fixtures that cannot go through the washing machine, I have started to spray with hospital grade disinfectant such as Glen20. Other items like chair fabric, I am wiping over with a wet cloth twice. One wettex has detergent, the second hospital grade disinfectant. This is not making it too laborious. I already do major cleans, so with the  difference isn’t too much. Just a thought...

[Yariv3]

Hi to all,

I read all the replies, thank you for replying.

There are several points here:

1. I am not, nor do I pre-suppose others, take the pandemic lightly. I host in Portugal which is part of the EU and many state and EU regulations are in place to block the pandemic. We follow these rules meticulously. Me even more than most as I am in a risk group.

2.  The Policy in question is faulty for several reasons:

a) Different places have different pandemic circumstances. New Zealand is different to NY or Portugal. Within Portugal, Lisbon (highly effected) is different to a rural town like ours which is very very lightly effected. The local rules in place are applied accordingly, cities, local councils and villages have regulations proportionate to their pandemic circumstances. The Airbnb policy in question treats the whole world with a single rule and the harshest sanction. That is why this policy is faulty on the basis of it being unproportionate. 

b) The local and EU rules are being devised by health professionals and elected officials of the highest stature. It is wrong for Airbnb to make their own rules as they are neither. This makes their policy faulty on the basis of standing (it is not their place). What Airbnb should do is ask hosts and guests to commit to local regulations regarding the pandemic (as they do re tax registration in the EU).

c) A shared house accommodation cannot reasonably be controlled to the point of cleaning after every guest's use of every place. It would be a lie to say otherwise. That makes the policy faulty on the basis of it being unreasonable.

d) Where local laws allow shared houses to operate under certain restrictions (in low capacities, with regulations encouraging a capsulation approach), a corporate policy which excludes shared houses, wrongfully discriminates their hosts and guests. 

To conclude;

Airbnb should apply reasonability and proportionality in its policy (badges, obligation to comply with local regulations).

Airbnb should not attempt to self regulate the entire world on health issues, not only because of its lack of legal standing but also because Airbnb management are not health professionals nor elected statesmen, so they also lack the necessary knowledge to properly do so.

Lastly, It is not a nice feeling to be bullied and manipulated by a giant cooperation. This policy brought to a point the gap between Airbnb's pleasant community lingo and its corporate elephant in china shop behavior and it is time to call on Airbnb corporation to revisit its ways. If Airbnb goes wrong we all lose. The community and the corporation are one and the same in this sense. I for one believe this can and should be a wonderful community. This is why I speak up now. Maybe by way of discussion we would be able to make things better.

Thanks again for taking the time to read this.

Yariv

@Anonymous 

@Helen350 

@Laura3135 

@Sarah977 

@Emiel1 

[Francesco1366]

@Yariv3 

1. it doesn't look like that
2. You are wrong. The pandemic is global. In a shared house that potentially welcomes guests from Milan eg, in percentage the covid could be present as in the center of Milan. Moreover, governments can be wrong and often have not legislated about. In zimbabwe? In Uganda? In North Korea, do we trust the Supreme who is also a denier? A global rule has perfect sense.
2c) As I wrote in other comment, I think the obligations refer to the private areas of the guest and the equipment you want to share, kitchen and bathroom for example. Do we have to clean the condominium stairs and expect no one reuse them? Obviously not. The same for our private spaces and the paths that allow us to access them. We need a correct interpretation of the rules based on what we offer as we cannot disappear from the house where we live. Maybe you need to change more your habits and rules facing that Covid exists and could be inside you and all your guests. You can also disinfect and finish cleaning few minutes before arrival of guest. 
2d) There is no discrimination and corporate policy which excludes shared houses. There are some here who would like all shared houses closed ... and you give thumbs-up. It's just harder for you. What did you think? That it's easy to host guests in a shared house from all over the world in the middle of a pandemic? No, it is very difficult.

To conclude:

It seems to me that you don't interpret correctly some rules. I Hope Airbnb helps you. Sometimes you just wrong. I hope you will realize.

[Francesco1366]

So you all agree that we just have to follow the laws eg. For shared houses, or better for all of us, it's absurd a common rule. In North Korea I can lick the guest, in Italy I have to stay 2 meters away, in Great Britain 2,5, in Australia it's better to sleep together. Masks? In sweden yes, Iran only for halloween parties, Russia yes but only in some areas. China? Zimbabwe?

Certainly the laws are always right, we have no cases of wrong laws or terrible governments in the world. How much experience and how many reviews I lack in order not to reach these solid conclusions, as solid as the covid controls in North Korea or Iran.

@Yariv3 @Anonymous @Sarah977 @Helen350 and all...

p.s.

Serious professionals already implement these practices, regardless of the laws. They are often more rigid. Please check the websites of big hotel chains. We are not professionals and we really have to thank airbnb to impose these rules. Really, really I thank a lot! Otherwise it would be a mess, primarily against our interests not to spread the virus. It is clear from what is written in this community that we need strong suggestions from Airbnb. You've all seen the users who said that masks are useless or that they live in heaven while the official datas show very different situation. 

[Cathie19]

@Francesco1366 , I hear your frustration, but I think I can talk on behalf of all hosts in Australia:

“We won’t be sleeping with the guests!” 

I’m lucky to be living in a geographical area, where government rules have been strict and we have had no community transmission. I’m also a friendly host, but there’s a limit...

🙌🏼 But I personally choose to sleep with my cohost, as I have been for 41 years!  😊

Stay safe and take care. 💐