Clarifying content policy

[Susan612]

Air Bnb content policy states “we reserve the right to remove any content, whole or part, that violates these guidelines or our terms of service. (Click in terms of service and you are taken to the terms of service).

Terms of service section 10 gives guidelines for reviews. Section 10.2 in fact states a review “must be fair, truthful and factual.” As well as not contain any offensive or defamatory language. 

In discussing the content policy’s reference to the terms of service with a case manager supervisor I was told by that supervisor;

“Customer service evaluates reviews alongside the content policy alone.”

After a couple email exchanges where I felt like my questions asking about the terms of service being mentioned in the content policy were not being answered directly I simplified my question.

I asked the supervisor flat out

1. When reviewing a review as per the content policy does your team consider whether the review violates section 10.2 in the terms of service. Yes or No? 

2. If a review is not fair, truthful or factual or contains offensive or defamatory language will that review be removed Yes or No.? 

Her answer was “I apologize but I am unable to follow you down this line of questioning.”

 You all are hosts vulnerable to a guest leaving a review that is not fair, truthful or factual. 

Would anyone be willing to address this matter further and see if you get a more affirmative answer that the terms of service section 10 regarding reviews will be enforced if violated?

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[Emiel1]

Hello @Susan612 ,

It is an interesting subject you are bringing up here. But the first sentence "we reserve the right" gives only a "we have the possibility to do so" but it is not a an "obligation to do so". So whatever they consider, we can not force them to take action.

[Susan612]

@Emiel1 thanks for your reply. I checked with Collins dictionary and their definition of reserve the right is will do if you feel it is necessary. 

[Emiel1]

Hello @Susan612 ,

Thanks. Whatever it is called, it's not something we (as hosts) can demand Airbnb to do (like removing a review) , from a legal point of view. It's Their right, not Our right.....

[Susan612]

@Emiel1  I hear what you are saying regarding we reserve the rights. The intention of my post was not to discuss the enforcement of the policy. My intention was to discuss the way the policy is written and lack of transparency by an employee in answering my questions. 

[Matthew285]

@Susan612, I know you want to discuss the policy in general, and one can certainly have a lively discussion about what the various clauses mean.

My contention is that the general discussion would mean very, very little when it comes to applying the policies / terms to the text of a specific review. (Which I why I was asking if you wanted to share something specific about a review you were wondering about.)

Personally, if I were asked to choose which would be more useful:

1. 100 pages of general discussion about what the terms / policies mean.
2. The text of the actual review in question.

I would say #2 would be 10 times more useful, without question.

[Susan612]

@Matthew285. Here is an example. I am a guest and I trip over the rug in the bedroom I am renting on Monday night. I write the host in the air Bnb message feed and say I tripped over the rug just now in the bedroom. The host writes back oh I am sorry to hear that. I hope you didn’t hurt yourself. 

I check out Wednesday. The host writes a review. The review states that Susan during her stay on Monday night tripped over her suitcase. 

Does that review violate Air Bnb content policy. 

[Matthew285]

@Susan612 thank you for providing an example!

I would say two things:

1. I would agree this technically violates the Airbnb content policy, in that saying the guest tripped over a suitcase (as opposed to a rug) does "not represent the author’s personal experience or that of their travel companions"
2. I could see Airbnb customer service going either way with removing or not removing it.

Now this is why a discussion with an actual example is cool: just like with a legal case, sometimes the devil is in the details.

1. Imagine the example were reversed: the guest actually tripped over their own suitcase, but later wrote that they tripped over the owner's rug and blamed the owner for improperly securing the rug. This would be a clear example of a review that ought to be removed because it isn't what happened, and the difference is very important.
2. Imagine the example was as originally stated, but additionally: no one was hurt, no damage was done, and honestly no one is quite sure why the guest mentioned it. Imagine the review also includes several other useful pieces of information about the listing, all of which are true. In this case, I would say that even though the review technically violates the content policy, it should not be removed, because the inaccuracy is trivial, immaterial, and the removal would eliminate a lot of useful, correct information.
3. I would bet the most common case is less clear: a guest review might include a lot of the guest's opinions and feelings, which may be unjustified but are not provably false. Then the review includes a small item that is provably false (tripping over the suitcase). This would give the Airbnb customer support person a justification for removing the review, but the CS person would still have to be convinced that the review deserves removal... and that is more about the host doing a good job talking to the CS person than about the minute legalities of the terms and policies.

I think the reason I am not enthusiastic about discussing the terms and policies in detail is that there have been so many examples talked about in these discussion rooms where hosts complain that the Airbnb customer service person clearly went against explicitly written policy, even though the policy was completely clear and applicable. The fact that a host has the written rules on their side has generally not been enough to turn the tide if a customer service person feels the outcome should go a certain way.

[Susan612]

@Matthew285. Got it Matthew.  Love your examples and points and the way your mind thinks. It will take me a little time to respond to this post, would love it if you stick with me to discuss further 

[Susan612]

@Matthew285 first I want to clarify I have a personal issue with a review of mine I have presented for removal, I can get into more detail later. I am bringing this up now to express I have been in contact with a number of case managers discussing the review.

Briefly though to address the definition of experience.  The reply I got often was the review does not violate the content policy because it is the guests “experience” . I questioned Air Bnb’s definition of experience and got varied answers from the case managers. I had the opportunity to communicate with a case manager supervisor and she explained the experience clause in a different way. She stated the clause that used the word experience ( forgive me for not cutting and pasting I am on mobile and don’t know how to do that) is “to prevent reviews which are written by people who were not present at the reservation.”

[Susan612]

@Matthew285 and to clarify the rug/suitcase was an example I used. My case was only similar in that the review reflected differently from the conversation that took place in message feed which I believe took it out of the he said she said realm and captured it in writing. 

[Susan612]

@Matthew285 however I see your point how even that can be abused.

[Matthew285]

@Susan612 I know what you are talking about!

I used to tell people "Oh yes! If the guest is lying in the review, then Airbnb will totally take it down."

Apparently, I was a fool.

That word "experience" as in "what the guest experienced" I guess can be interpreted to mean "even though your house is painted bright red, the guest 'experienced' it as being deep blue".

Or "even though your guest caused the problem by drunkenly parking their car in the middle of the road so that the police had to come and ask them to move it so that vehicles could get through, the guest 'experience' was that the host was unreasonable about providing parking."

So yes, as long as the guest was physically present, they apparently can write whatever fiction they want in the review and it does not violate the content policy.

Is that what is going on?

[David126]

Think of it as a word game, now I could draft a review that was totally untrue but word it in such a way that it was fully AirBnB compliant.

To use an an anology in the Chelsea West Ham game today there was an incident that was clealy a Penalty if you were watching it on TV but from the Referee's angle he could not see it and therefore did not give it.

As a Host the only way you can get a review removed is if a Guest goes over the top and makes allegations that are demonstably false.

[Susan612]

@David126 points well taken. Regarding the point about the referee not seeing the penalty that inspires me to say always seek a second opinion and sometimes a third and fourth and even fifth. It took me five different case managers once to finally reach one who saw and recognized the point I was making. I persisted because I sincerely believed the point I was advocating for. 

My examples of the definition of experience also shows the fine line where the case manager is not representing Air Bnb and Air Bnb policy but are providing a host or guest  with their interpretation of Air Bnb Policy.