Guest authorized for 13 person dinner party - has 30 person wedding reception

[Paige208]

Hi all,

I am currently hosting what I was told was a group of 13 for a "family dinner" get-together. The space was originally created as an event venue but we have since pivoted with covid and started Airbnbing as well to supplement our lack of events due to covid. We have cameras in all event spaces that are nonintrusive and do not face the house whatsoever. With that being said I can see that they are having a wedding reception. This is not a family dinner party. They said they were bringing in "Bluetooth speakers" and I can see commercial DJ speakers set up.  They also set up commercial-stage lights. I'm not sure about you guys but I myself have never been to a "dinner party" like this. 

With that being said, I have already semi confronted the guest. He claimed the music was "not loud at all" even though our security system is flagging it consistently, and that the music is necessary for their "dinner party" that is happening this evening. I feel we have been completely lied to about his dinner party intentions and am unsure how to proceed. My co-owner is worried if I confront them they will retaliate by damaging the house or leaving a bad review. At this moment we feel pretty helpless and are worried about the neighbors becoming upset. 

Thank you in advance for any suggestions. 

[Normen0]

@Paige208 @I’m not sure I have your answer but I do have some clarifying questions.

1) is the gathering in contravention of any COVID gathering rules for the area? 

2) Prior to COVID, was there space used as such and the neighbours subject to the kind of noise you are anticipating? 

3) Do you have this type of event listed as against the rules in your listing? 

if no, to questions 1 and 3, you are hard pressed to do anything about this gathering. 
If  the noise level is akin to previous to COVID events, I would monitor the noise and deal with what happens as it happens. Then request funds for additional persons, additional cleaning as necessary.  Give an honest review and click on No, I would not host this person again. 
It is unfortunate that these folks have out you in this position and I wouldn’t want to be the one ousting a wedding reception. If it’s not unruly, I’d allow it to continue and deal later. Good luck! It’s a tough one. 

[Colleen253]

This is not a simple problem. I was going to say that this guest violating your occupancy limits is grounds for termination of the booking, but I see you’ve already authorized the guest to break your limits. Once the body count reaches 16+ though, the stay is in violation of Airbnb’s party ban policy. At that point you can have Airbnb cancel the stay. You then have to remove these people yourself. However, you’re in a sticky situation with your listing description, photos and rules concerning events and parties. They may put you in hot water if you contact Airbnb for help with this. 

https://www.airbnb.ca/help/article/2704/party-and-events-policy

If you let it go on, and your neighbors get upset and report the party to Airbnb, you will likely see your listing suspended (refer to the party policy for details). Letting the party go on of course also creates lots of other risks for you. 

On Airbnb, it’s really important to have explicit policies and rules that prohibit  parties, gatherings, events and clearly laid out consequences for violators. Address also occupancy limits and unregistered guests.  Also important is careful screening of potential guests, and being ready to immediately spring to action should things go south despite your best efforts. You need to market your listing differently on Airbnb to prevent this type of situation going forward, and find other platforms to list on to accommodate parties and events.

[Anonymous]

@Paige208   Sorry to sound all told-you-so, but this is exactly the scenario I predicted you'd quickly find yourself in when you asked for a critique of your listing. My advice at the time was to make your policy on unregistered and non-overnight visitors completely clear and unambiguous, and increase your minimum stay to more than 2 nights. Otherwise, your listing was destined to appeal primarily to those seeking a venue for the kind of event that can easily slip out of your control.

I'm not sure if you ultimately made any changes, but your listing does still seem to lean more heavily into events (e.g. "bachelorette parties" and "casino nights") than accommodation, so I'm still not entirely sure it's a good fit for Airbnb. Your rules do state that guests having an "unauthorized event" will be asked to leave immediately, but they leave a big loophole for people like your current guests - they did have what appears to be your authorization to hold an event above your occupancy limit, and the presence of unregistered guests and external equipment is not prohibited in your rules.

You can still demand that the guests end the event and leave, as they are violating Airbnb's prohibition on gatherings over 16 people. However, when you read the wording on that policy, you'll probably notice that it's much more punitive to hosts who allow parties (or fail to prevent them) than to guests who throw them, as @Colleen253  illustrates above. The optimal window to prevent damage and nasty confrontations has already passed, so none of your options here are good.

However you choose to act on this, I strongly recommend that you create a much firmer distinction between your event business and your Airbnb business. They're simply not compatible, and every point where the lines blur is going to be nothing but trouble. 

[Sarah977]

@Paige208  Perhaps this booking was made before you got answers to your request for a critique, so was a done deal as far as not allowing event bookings through Airbnb.

I would strongly suggest that you revamp your Airbnb listing- you have 3 bedrooms and a den set up for kids to sleep- limit the max guest count to 6, not 12, say in your description that you can accept 2 children in addition to the 6 max guest count, and that will help a lot.

The number of beds and guests you can cram into a place should not be the determining factor in how many  guests you allow.

If you are determined to allow events, Airbnb is not compatible with that.

Your house rules say no events or parties are permitted without prior arrangment with the host, yet your listing description screams "party place" and even says "bring your guests and host a dinner party!"

You seem to be inviting the sort of behavior you are now upset about.

[Ann72]

@Paige208  You got on Airbnb because you were no longer hosting events or were hosting very few, I gather - otherwise I'm pretty sure you would use Peerspace.  

Since as @Colleen253 pointed out, you're on somewhat thin ice with Airbnb policies, I would lay on the charm while charging extra.  Gosh, I'm sorry you didn't mention more people, because my homeowners insurance policy requires event insurance for any number over 16 blah blah blah.  Like any wedding venue we charge a per-head fee and I'll put that through to you in the resolution center.  Really happy you were able to celebrate your family's special day here.

It is a tricky situation and I don't know that any of this will work, but it sounds like you're not comfortable with saying nothing, and if you strike the right note they won't damage your place or give you a bad review.  

[Paige208]

Thanks for all the information everyone. I have definitely put myself in a compromised space. Learning how to separate these two entities is proving to be difficult and I was warned about this by the community prior! Taking all the suggestions and appreciate the insight! 

[Sarah977]

@Paige208   The thing to keep in mind about an Airbnb listing is that leaving things open to interpretation by guests doesn't work. What you or I might define a dinner party to be will be interpreted by guests as they see fit. 

It's the same with check-out instructions. If a host just asks guests to clean up after themselves, what you consider that to mean may be worlds apart from what the guest considers that to mean. You have to be specific- wash your dirty dishes, make sure all garbage is in the bin, remove leftover food from the fridge, etc.

[Paige208]

Sarah,

That is absolutely the hardest part! What I think common decency/knowledge is does not translate to everyone! Such a learning process here but super thankful for the community!

Best,

Paige 

[Paige208]

All if you’re still on this thread I have updated my listing to what I think removes any idea of an unwanted event. Please let me know if you have any thoughts! Thanks again 🙂

[Sarah977]

@Paige208  I don't understand- it still says "bring your guests and enjoy a dinner party!" (And why do you use so many exclamation marks?)

Why do you mention the yurt that can sleep 2 more guests? If you want to offer the yurt, create 2 listings, one which includes the yurt and ups the max guest count by 2, and costs more, and one that doesn't.

The listing description still reads like an invitation for large groups to party. You should not even mention "throwing an event", telling guests to book that through your event listing. You won't be able to send them a link to your event listing on another platform through Airbnb messaging- any info like that will be blocked by Airbnb and all of that can get you delisted from Airbnb.

It seems you are having a hard time understanding how to create an Airbnb appropriate listing description. 

[Anonymous]

@Paige208  My biggest takeaway from your last description update is that the primary purpose of your Airbnb listing is actually to send more traffic to your personal webpage for event rentals. This doesn't really help your case, because it still looks quite easy to avoid the higher charges by making a 2-night Airbnb booking and just doing the event anyway. Also, Airbnb's Terms of Service don't allow you to use their platform to shift business offsite. 

As a regular reader of this forum, I'm sure you already know that any mention of fees and fines in the House Rules is just an empty threat, because Airbnb does not charge them on your behalf or collect an actual deposit. The kind of guests who misrepresent their intentions to throw a party, they know that too - it doesn't seem to be an effective deterrent.

You've mentioned before that you have a lot of experience managing event rentals, so I can understand your interest in integrating that expertise into the Airbnb project. But once again, this is just not a compatible platform for that. If you want to avoid uncomfortable experiences like this in the future, I think you'd have to re-tool your Airbnb listing to be 100% accommodation, and set the appropriate parameters for that (lower occupancy, longer minimum stay, no unregistered visitors allowed, no mention of parties or events whatsoever, no plugging your other business). There are other sites you can use to keep event business coming in, but the guests who search Airbnb for that purpose are bad news. This site has a reputation for being the easiest one to get away with dodgy parties - no deposits, no real repercussions, nightly rates instead of hourly, no house staff on site to keep things in order, hosts who are easily fooled and intimidated by fear of bad reviews. Your current guests will most likely be 30 more people spreading the word about that, which is not good for your event business.

The question is, if event trade is recovering from the pandemic slump anyway, do you really want to be running an Airbnb on the side too?