Guest claims theft occurred after checking out

[Jeanette68]

Hi guys. I need your advice and thoughts regarding this issue. 

Two weeks ago, two girls booked my listing (a private room in my apartment) for a week. I provide a safe for my guests in the room to keep their valuables.

On the last day of their stay, they did not lock the door before leaving the apartment. I’m unsure how long it was left unlocked for and I informed the guests about it. It is stated in my house rules that they are to ensure that the door is locked when they leave my apartment, otherwise I will not be held responsible for their lost valuables. 

Before they checked out, I made myself completely available to them. They even asked me how to call Uber and what time they should go to the airport. After they checked out, they informed me that they lost their money in my apartment. When asked how much? They were unsure. The friend of the girl who booked the listing claimed she lost $200 for sure but her friend was unsure how much she lost. Then she said, maybe $100? 

As they left the door unlocked, I shouldn’t have offered them a goodwill offer but I offered them a $100 refund while I investigate the issue further. 

Today, she requested a refund of $400 because she said she’s sure they lost $400 because she checked at 1 pm on the day she was checking out. She checked out at 7:30 pm. 

I’m quite concerned about their claims because it seems dodgy for the following reasons: 

1. If they lost the money at my place, why didn’t they inform me ASAP? Why did they wait until after they checked out to inform me? 

2. There were two people occupying the room, could it be either of them? 

3. If they claim they lost money, they should be sure how much they lost but their amount keeps changing with the words “for sure” at the end. 

What would you (other hosts) so if you were in my shoes? 

Note: It’s hard to determine if a break in occurred because they left the apartment door unlocked. 

[Jeanette68]

Airbnb is getting way too big. In their mind set, the guests are more important than the hosts because they are paying but they forgot the fact that if they didn’t have hosts on Airbnb, what listings are there for guests to book? 

[Mark116]

@Jeanette68   I wonder if you would have any luck either trying to reach airbnb via twitter DM or opening a new case with a different CS rep.  

It seems like airbnb is almost insinuating that you stole the money?!  Why else would they be putting some kind of 'note' in your listing?  It seems that providing a safe is actually far beyond any minimum requirement to support guest security, and no one even knows if the money was actually stolen, or when.

If it WAS in the safe, it looks like the guests must have failed to use it properly...eg. they didn't use the codes or whatever, ...that is user error and not your fault.  And of course, no one knows for sure if the money was or wasn't stolen while they were there or at all.

ETA:  did they tell you how they think you violated the TOS?  I don't get that, there is nothing that says you have to provide a lockable safe or other method for people to store their valuables.  Or, certainly, anything that mandates a host is liable for guest property that is damaged or lost

[Jeanette68]

Actually, Airbnb didn’t insinuate anything. They just said that a note has been added to my records on their end for trust and safety reasons which I have informed them is not fair on my end because they shouldn’t put it on the record when they didn’t investigate and are just taking the guest’s word for it.

I told them that the guest’s behaviour is suspicious because both of them only informed me of the situation after they checked out. I told them that’s not normal and something could have happened to them after their check out. I said that if they had informed me during their stay, I would have admitted that it occurred while they were staying in my apartment, but oddly, they only decided to inform me after they checked out. WHY? So I argued that anything that occurs after their checkout shouldn’t be my responsibility and requested for a fair investigation of this case. However, the trust and safety team specialist seems reluctant to investigate this issue and investigate the guest’s behaviour. He just keeps replying, “if future events occur again, your account may be permanently deactivated.” 

[Mark116]

@Jeanette68 I still don't get it.  If they left the apartment unlocked, how or why should their be any note in your record?  

I do wonder if you aren't focusing on the wrong things here with CS, the issue isn't whether or not any money was stolen, you can't prove that, but it is that even IF it was stolen, it still is the fault of the guests for leaving the apartment unlocked and not using the safe properly, unless I'm not understanding.  You can't be held liable for other people being irresponsible and leaving their valuables open to getting stolen.  As far as an investigation, airbnb won't do that, but they don't need to, if I'm getting it, the guests left the apartment unlocked and the safe was not used properly, that is all the investigation there needs to be.  Also, if they did  not file a police report, that should go against them and not you.

I think  you should speak to someone else about this and get the note removed if you can.  You might even consult a lawyer if you can afford it.

[Jeanette68]

Hi Mark 

I understand your point and I have the same thoughts as you. I have been trying to relay my main points to the trust and safety team and I don’t think the trust and safety team that’s handling this case understands this issue. I have been emailing them to request a fair investigation of this issue to clear my records. I’m currently waiting for his reply.

If he still doesn’t get my point that I shouldn’t be held responsible for their own negligence of not locking the door and not reporting the issue during their stay but only after their check out, then I will request to speak to his supervisor or manager if possible. 

[Jeanette68]

Airbnb has replied:

Please note that as per Airbnb policy, we must track all incidents that occurred during the reservation. However, I just want to clarify that we are taking appropriate actions on the guest account.

[Mika8]

@Mark116  .. yup .. it's all about: make the guest happy 😉

[Lisa723]

@Jeanette68  @Mark116 “if future events occur again, your account may be permanently deactivated.” Interesting space/time conundrum there.

[Jeanette68]

Update: 

Just received a reply from a case manager: 

After such incident it is compliant to our terms of services to keep a history of such incidents to guarantee the safety and security of our platform. Adding a note on your account is absolutely not implying that you are guilty or responsible for the previous event. We understand that you have been a victim. Our action is only destined to keep visibility of the previous event.

Now that we have reviewed all facts provided and arrived at a decision, we consider your case closed, and we will disengage from further discussion on this topic.

[Jeanette68]

Thank you all of you, especially Mark for your advice. I appreciate it very much. 

[Karin369]

@Jeanette68 Hi Jeanette and others, I have come across this conversation because I am searching for advice on a similar incident. Did you end up having to compensate for the $400?

My guests checked out 6 days ago and sent me a message stating that they had their cash stolen from my house. They are claiming that it must have been my housekeeper/manger or her son that came to assist with a broken shower head (which occurred 3 days prior to check out). They only entered when the guest was present. The guest is saying they were afraid to tell me or the police when it happened because 'they know where we stay and it is our word against them'.

They have not actually asked for me to compensate them yet. They have not made any official claim yet. I feel they are trying to keep it between us personally first to see if I offer them reimbursement. But I'm afraid they will take it further and would like to know where I stand. I also fear they may leave a horrible review of course.

We do not have a safe. They claim they put the cash under the bathmat and then did not think to remove it when the manager and son came in to repair the shower.

I called in and spoke with an agent that advised I tell the guest to make a claim. After reading the thread above, that may not be what I want to do!

Can I possibly be held responsible for their unsecured cash?

Any advice?

[Jeanette68]

Hi @Karin369 

No. I didn’t have to compensate them as I sent all the screenshots of my conversations with my guests to Airbnb.

Airbnb did put this note on my file though. 

I also did send my guests $100 as a form of goodwill. However, it seemed like they wanted more. 

Your guests should have kept in the their luggage and lock it. Why the hell would they keep it under the bath mat? That’s just weird. 

[Karin369]

@Jeanette68 Thank you for your quick reply! I'm glad to hear they did not hold you responsible. Do you think I should be telling the guest to make a claim? I'm quite baffled about that advice.

[Lawrene0]

I think you should be advising the guests to phone the police, @Karin369 . It will let them know you are serious, and should make this all go away: 

Because if the money truly was stolen, then it is indeed a police matter, but if it wasn't, they are not going to call, and they will drop it.

[Karin369]

@Lawrene0 thank you that is good advice. You are right!