Sorry for sideways pix, didn't allow rotate upright.
Question for me is liability if I try providing either a grab bar that uses suction cups or mat for inner tub floor, both which I feel increase liability, should a guest swing from the suction cupped bar or uses too much soap and the mat slips beneath their feet.
Because of existing construction (preformed tub/stall combo without direct stud access) it would become a major task and cost to try installing a secure and permanent grab bar that to be secure would likely need to attach to wall studding.
Suggestions or thoughts?
*Community Manager Edit - I've turned the image to the correct orientation for you!
@Denis130 I agree, I wouldn't install a grab bar that wasn't securely fastened into the wall. As for a tub mat, those are designed not to slip around, regardless of how much soap is there, aren't they? Or you can get those stick-on non-slip decal thingies.
Since it sounds like you have gotten a few of these "suggestions" and may attract an older demographic of guests, you might think about putting a disclaimer in your listing- "Please note, if you have mobility issues, you should be aware that there is no grab bar in the bathtub and no way of installing one as it is a preformed unit ".
I'm sure thankful that I don't require such things myself. At almost 72, I still go up on ladders to change out fan blades and such.
I tried the suction cup grab bars and they weren’t reliable.
They have an indicator that shows when they are firmly attached but given the general ignorance of a large segment of the population it would be unwise to depend on that.
Also people who are always looking for a lawsuit could detach them and claim that they just fell off.
It is possible to mount a grab bar securely to a stud behind the shower enclosure using this system:
Keeney PP19000 Solid Fiberglass Shower Grab Bar Backer and Mounting Kit for Bathtub Safety, White https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GVWYYX5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_HZQ8GWS8CZ7KQW8JPSSC
It looks like a right pain in the neck to install though.
First you would have to try to figure out where a stud should be and then hope it’s really there.
It’s better to have no grab bar than one that falls off at the worst possible time.
@Brian2036 Thanks for responding both times Brian.
1. Primarily for reasons of aesthetics, when considering the vacuum/suction cup type attachable models, I thought I could possibly offer them to guests for their use only during their stays (ie show them in a box/drawer for use if desired). Just by offering them, I would presumably be invited into the risk.
2. At 77 years I have used cheap and expensive stud-finders with equal success. Missed stub by just a hair, when only 3/8, or 1/2" drywall being considered. The preformed tub/stall would be farther away from the stud in my estimation, with more opportunity for missing the stud, plus there might be a new risk of water seal leakage by drilling through what was once (now) a solid preformed surface.
Absolutely. Stud finders are not at all reliable.
And offering sucker models would be a liability.
Possibly one of those shower seats that fit across the tub rails might help.
I prefer to avoid liability by clearly stating that my listing is NOT suitable for people with mobility issues. I have no obligation to make the place accessible to disabled people and I wouldn’t if I could, which I can’t.
If the time comes that I’m required to do so I QUIT.
@Denis130 When hosts post suggested wording here, it's to try to help out fellow hosts, so I think it's pretty generally understood that we can "steal" or incorporate whatever someone has bothered to post publicly, whether it's wording for our listing info or how to write a review for a specific guest whose behavior you've described.
@Denis130 While your posted issue was about bath grab bars, I think we all know that if anyone, friend or Air BNB guest, harms themselves in your home, you are liable. That is why a general homeowners insurance policy should have accident liability. Having a disclosure generally doesn't absolve you of liability. MY disclaimer is that I am not an attorney, so take my free advice for what it's worth...:P
You are correct. The disclaimer is intended to be a deterrent.
If someone in the USA is intent on suing you, all they have to say is, “I’m incredibly stupid and lazy and I didn’t read the warning nor would I have understood it if I did.”
There is such a thing as “contributory negligence,” however, and other than in the Ninth Circuit, many courts are fed up with stupidity and laziness.
Nothing I ever say is subject to copyright. Unless, of course, you publish it and make a million dollars, in which case I want 2% of the net.
Thanks all for your input.
For now settled on "NOT suitable for people with mobility issues" to my listing.
Back in the late 60s when I joined the airlines, I was continually amazed how folks never read the many, and maybe too many signs. One unforgettable moment was when a customer walked up to a fellow ticket agent in a Northwest Airlines uniform and badging and asked, "Where is Northwest Airline?", while standing at our (NW's) 40 foot long ticket counter, with our corporate name, logos, ticketing signs and all. Note I'm as guilty in not reading the minutia on Apps, real estate contracts, etc.