Hello

 

I'm currently a guest in someone's AirBnB apartment. Since living in the property, it has become aparent that the Host is not the owner of the property - he has sublet the property without the permission of his landlord and the landlord knows that I'm his 'Guest' in the property.

 

My question is this - can the landlord kick me out and essentially bypass the Host? Also, if the Host kicks me out of the property prior to the end date, can I get a refund? 

Thanks

117 Replies

Re: Host is subletting without landlord's permission - will I, the guest, get kicked out?

in
Long Beach, CA
Level 2

Kenneth ,  How did you become a level 10 and avoid tenants?   I suspect you are an Airbnb plant.   I am a host on various STR sites and have had the situation that the landlords on this bulletin are complaining about.  It is a nightmare when you sign a long-term lease and the tenant is using the unit as a short-term rental.  There are real issues regarding liability and real income losses associated with eviction. Airbnb's terms of service are nothing but a legal figleaf because they do not enforce them against hosts they know are violating them. The only reason I keep my ad on Airbnb is so I can get a call back should this ever happen to me again.  Eventually, this will catch up with Airbnb.  I am an STR host that believes that STR's need to be strongly regulated and that bad actors need to leave the industry. 

Re: Host is subletting without landlord's permission - will I, the guest, get kicked out?

in
Sayulita, Mexico
Level 10

@Lee300  The levels here have nothing to do with hosting- they only refer to the number of posts one has made on this forum and the number of thumbs up your posts got.

Re: Host is subletting without landlord's permission - will I, the guest, get kicked out?

in
SF, CA
Level 10

@Dave227 I know you need the ad off of AirBnB, and you need it off fast.

That is why I am suggesting you go after the guests and the tenant.

 

Whenever I hear a story of a property owner battling with AirBnB to take a listing down, it always take a long, long time. And there isn't even much chance of success.

 

You said "I believe Airbnb have the responsibilty to asked for some sort of proof that the tenant have the authority to sublease." 

AirBnB believes differently, and will fight you for a long, long time about that. They have all the time and money in the world to fight you on that point. That's why I don't suggest that strategy.

 

However, if, as I suggest, you stop the AirBnB guests from being able to check in, the guests will cancel. The tenant will stop receiving money, and will even be penalized monetarily. If you can stop the guests from being able to check in, then the *tenant* will take the AirBnb listing off because it will be costing him money. And the tenant can take the listing off instantly.

 

The moment you make the AirBnB listing unprofitable for the tenant, the tenant will take it down.

The fastest way to get the listing off is to make the tenant want the listing off.

The fastest way to make the tenant want the listing off is to stop the money.

 

Regarding the existing lockbox: take the lockbox off entirely. Get rid of it. Put up a sign that says "AirBnB is forbidden here. AirBnB guests are not welcome to stay. You are trespassing."

Hand the key to the tenant.

Why does your existing tenant need a lockbox? They have a key. They "live" there.

You are not preventing them from entering the unit at all.

Make sure the key is the kind you cannot copy.

 

 

Re: Host is subletting without landlord's permission - will I, the guest, get kicked out?

in
Chicago, IL
Level 10

You keep suggesting that the landlord engage in a self-help lockout or other action that is illegal.   The landlord cannot sabotage a lockbox.  The landlord cannot confront the guests and tell them they're unwanted (tortuous interference at best).  All these acts are inappropriate.
The landlord can try to convince them to leave,  threaten eviction short of harassment,   or actually file for eviction.  That is all.  They may not interfere with any otherwise legal use of the property.

Re: Host is subletting without landlord's permission - will I, the guest, get kicked out?

in
SF, CA
Level 10

@Kenneth12, thanks for acting as a backstop.

 

I'm trying to not suggest he do anything against tenant regulations.

I am assuming the lockbox belongs to the owner.

I told the owner to provide the tenant with a key. Is that illegal?

 

I am assuming that putting up a sign letting AirBnB guests know that Short Term rentals is against the law is not illegal. I figure the city government would not prosecute the owner for letting guests know what the local law is.

I'm not telling him to confront the guests, but I believe it is entirely appropriate to put up a sign. If the guests want to enter the property under those conditions, they are free to.

 

I also don't think the owner should threaten anyone.

He should just begin the normal, legal process of eviction. No threats are needed.

 

I'm sure with both of us helping, the owner can find a sensible and legal path to follow.

 

Thanks for your advice and suggestions!

 

Re: Host is subletting without landlord's permission - will I, the guest, get kicked out?

in
Chicago, IL
Level 10

Exactly where did you take law classes?  Boalt here,  and I'm guessing you don't know what you're talking about.

This is a civil conflict until the landlord chooses to make it something else.

The landlord cannot simply lock out individuals allowed entry by a valid tenant.  That's as illegal as locking out a tenant.

Airbnb is not illegal.  The sign can act to do nothing but tortuously,  fraudulently or otherwise interfere with the otherwise presumptively legal activity of the tenant.  It is also transparently harassing.

The landlord's sole recourse is to convince the tenant to cease the activity or vacate in a non-harassing manner,  or initiate eviction procedings.  Changing locks to cause an inconvenience or interfere with tenant activities,  etc.,  is transparently what it is.

And just to complete the pro formas:  I am not your lawyer,  the above is not legal advice,   no attorney-client privilege has been formed,  and if you are in this situation,  you should contact a competent landlord-tenant lawyer in your jurisdiction for advice.

Re: Host is subletting without landlord's permission - will I, the guest, get kicked out?

Level 2

Hi Kenneth,

 

Are there any websites that I can visit to get a landlord tenant lawyer. It might be too expensive for me to get one who has a walk-in office in Las Vegas. The City of Las Vegas told me to get legal counsel. My property manager told me I cannot kick the tenant out because under state law, only law enforcement can do that with proper filing. After I explained to the City that the tenant has violated the lease agreement, they gave me 30 days to handle the situation. Eviction will take another 6 weeks according to state law, but luckily the lease ends in about 4 weeks and we already told tenant we will not renew the lease. Once the tenant leaves I would like to hire a landlord tenant lawyer to draft up a new lease agreement to give me the authority to remove the tenant immediately or keep all security deposit if they are caught doing short term rental. 

Re: Host is subletting without landlord's permission - will I, the guest, get kicked out?

Level 2

Hi Matthew,

 

I did think about changing the lock to an electronic lock box, or just hand over the key (the ones that connot be copied) to the tenant. But the issue is let's say a group of Airbnb guests arrive, they can still text the tenant who will then arrive at the house to open the door for them to enter. It's not possible for me to monito 24/7 when Airbnb guests will arrive. 

Re: Host is subletting without landlord's permission - will I, the guest, get kicked out?

in
Chicago, IL
Level 10

You should likely inform the Section 8 provider as soon as possible,  so they can determine if there is a violation and take action;  special regulations typically apply to Section 8 on top of other obligations.
It is up to the provider,   not you,  to determine if a violation is occurring... but you might want to help them along ...

Re: Host is subletting without landlord's permission - will I, the guest, get kicked out?

in
Bristol, United Kingdom
Level 10

I think it is appalling that Airbnb isn't helping you when it is clear your tenant is illegally subletting your property and you are facing fines as a result. Try posting on their FB about and `Twitter account.

 

I don't know how tenancy laws work in the US but surely if you have a clause saying she can't sub let and proof that she has, you can take action to evict her.

 

I would also contact your benefits people and let them know that she is sub letting the property illegally and generating XXXX a night while claiming benefits.

Re: Host is subletting without landlord's permission - will I, the guest, get kicked out?

in
Chicago, IL
Level 10

Is there something about the world illegal that normal people have come to fail to understand?

The tenant is not doing anything illegal.  Hosting Airbnb guests is not illegal.  The landlord and tenant have a purely civil law dispute over the terms of the conflict and their obligations.  If the landlord feels the tenant is violating that contract,  they must prove that by going to a judge and convincing the court that their position is legally correct.  For all we know, the tenant also claims to be acting legally and properly within the contract and their rights-- and may be.

In such a civil party dispute-- let me say it again, though you seem stubbornly committed to not understanding such a basic point-- Airbnb,  as a third party,  has no place.  They cannot moderate or decide a civil dispute between these parties.  They cannot judge that a tenant is in violation of lease or other agreements,  and take action.   They would be wrong to do so,  and would incurr liability to suit if they did.

None of us can judge if the situation is as described.  None of us can know,  if a Section 8 tenant in Las Vegas,  can or cannot use their leasehold for Airbnb,  when,  how long,  how much.  That decision is for the authorities and courts.

The landlord may be in a difficult position given over-reaching and possibily unconstitutional STRP laws in Las Vegas,  but that is not necessarily the tenant's issue or problem.  While I sympathize,  landlords have obligations,  including dealing with local bureaucracies even when those bureaucracies take action that is misbegotten or idiotic.

Re: Host is subletting without landlord's permission - will I, the guest, get kicked out?

in
Sayulita, Mexico
Level 10

@Kenneth12  If the tenant is collecting govt. money for rent subsidy on a place she supposedly lives, but is actually not living there but instead using it as an airbnb business, that would seem to be highly illegal. She is using govt. funds fraudulently.

Re: Host is subletting without landlord's permission - will I, the guest, get kicked out?

in
Wollongong, Australia
Level 2

My tenant is renting out a self contained section of my house without any permission, they have been given a 14 day termination notice from the real estate agents, but continue to let the property on Airbnb.  Airbnb absolve themselves of all responsibility and continue to profit from an illegal contract, of which they are aware.  Btw the tenant has not been paying rent and is about 10k in arrears, this is the property link - 

https://abnb.me/cRgZoviRBcb, the address is in Scarborough NSW Australia the super host is Mark Allen

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