Would love other hosts' perspectives on this! Airbnb cancelled white supremacists' bookings?

[Allison2]

http://www.thewrap.com/people-bound-for-white-supremacist-rally-getting-ousted-from-airbnb/

What do you think? Should Airbnb cancel confirmed bookings because they don't agree with someone's personally held beliefs, or the pages they like on Facebook? It seems an awful lot like prosecuting for thought crimes and guilt by association to me.

Where do we draw the line?

I'm no friend of white supremacists/nationalists, but I think this was poor form. How do we increase tolerance if we force this type of person to only interact with people who share their beliefs? I'd have to say I like LGBT people a hell of a lot better than white supremacists, but what's the difference between a Christian bakery owner refusing to make a cake for a same-sex wedding and a liberal hotelier refusing to lodge a white supremacist?

Non-discrimination is non-discrimination. I offer my listing to anyone regardless of their beliefs. There are several religions that don't regard my gender as equal, but I still host adherents of those faiths. So long as their prejudice doesn't show through in their behavior while staying in my home, they're welcome. So now these people with distasteful beliefs will give their money to someone who shares their viewpoint. It would have been more impactful for hosts to donate the proceeds to the ACLU or some other organization that supports tolerance and equal rights for all.

[Jessica-and-Henry0]

@Allison2 This really made me think long and hard...... not sure what I'm thinking or supposed to think yet 🙂 

Korea is probably one the most homogenous countries in the world - although there has been rapid change over the past 10+ yrs . International travel was rare and difficult for the average citizen till about 20~25 years ago and inter-racial marriges used to be news-worthy topics, and the general public fundamentally did not understand what racial discrimination even meant. Although a lot has changed since then, I still see people in everyday life who don't know the difference between "different" and "discrimination". 

I guess in general, I'm kinda like @Farah1. As long as people do not preach or try to "convert" me to their way of thinking. (One thing that still bugs me is, that in Korea for some reason, acknowledging "I understand where you are coming from" is considered the same as "I agree with you". Many people I've met just do not understand or accept the concept of "let's agree to disagree".)

I can and will be polite - but might decide to keep my distance while keeping my own thoughts and opinions to myself and expect the other person to do the same, for BOTH our sakes. 

Most people and organizations have some level of "double standards" - but I've seen so much proof of Airbnb blatently acting like they are above any rules or policies they themselves have set up. They really need to work on practicing what they preach and need to be consistent. Seriously. 

[David126]

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

[David126]

@Jessica-and-Henry0 Most people and organizations have some level of "double standards" - but I've seen so much proof of Airbnb blatently acting like they are above any rules or policies they themselves have set up. They really need to work on practicing what they preach and need to be consistent

Amen!

[Helga0]

I don't see a double standard here. Rsther that there are conflicting rules and airbnb chooses the one to follow, that is in line with their choice which image to project if there is a choice to be made or if there is media attention. 

They have a policy of inclusion and non discrimination on a prejudice. 

They protect their hosts - that is- beside being I believe a honest conviction - also one of thrir majoring points to hosts. 

Including people with strong prejudices themselves is one thing, if they preach, it's annoying for most hosts, and these will preach, they do preach publicly, but if they intend to go beyond still acceptable words, the choosen policy requires to protect other

members. 

In the situation of the immigration ban  blocking people already on their way , airbnb stood up to help and to say that they do not agree with such ways to proceed. 

There was some discussion then, that they should not meddle in politics.that's choosing to be blind: big companies meddle in politics all over the world and probably since the first company was created. The current American president favours heavily polluting industries over the health of his people and the world's population 's wellbeing. Those decisions don't come out of the blue, they stemm from political and financial support and lobbying. The worst polluters dictating environment laws - that's companies / industries making policy. In the tech industry are a few big playersgoing against the current tendency, which I see as a small shimmer of hope. 

The concept that you can't discriminate the discriminators is flawed. It's including people into a set of rules, who define themselves outside the set of rules. 

[Rebecca170]

I am also concerned about revoking reservations for perceived attitudes of the attendees to the Virginia function. I am pretty sure this is the first time this has happened with airbnb, and if it is, there have been multiple times in the past 2 years where this action would have been appropriate for other political groups who have a proven history for property damage and personal injury to others - yet no attempt to stifle reservations was taken at that time. (I have sent a personal plea to airbnb on their help site.)

Basically, I voiced to airbnb management, that it creates an air of fear in non-violent conservatives that like to travel using airbnb. One could simply be a Trump supporter these days and possibly have their travel plans suspended at the last minute, judging from multiple attitudes and suspicions observed in the national and local media.  I already know one person of influence in the Indianapolis area that has publicly stated that they will no longer use airbnb because of their decision to cancel travel plans.

I work in a hotel, and guests can be refused for lots of reasons; theft, credit card fraud, smoking in rooms, filth, violence, etc..  We would never refuse a guest for personal opinion. Airbnb needs to rethink their policy. It is bigoted. We have laws to punish violent extremists. Thought is not violent extremism.

[Anonymous]

@Rebecca170, to quote from the article originally linked:

"Airbnb became aware of these users after examining posts on The Daily Stormer — a neo-Nazi site with tabs dedicated to “race war” and the “Jewish problem” — by people who said they using the service to book lodging to attend “Unite the Right,” as well as larger venues to throw parties associated with the event"

There are surely people affiliated with these organizations that are content to merely endorse acts of violent extremism and genocide, rather than physically commit them. But we're not talking about a few bad apples among a bunch of run-of-the-mill conservatives here. These are groups who deliberately use violent rhetoric and often bring lethal weapons to public events in order to instill fear and provoke violence, in the name of an extremist ideology not that far apart from that of certain well-known terrorist organizations. Now, there's no way to know if some innocent and peaceful people got caught in the net, but if you're willing to have the Daily Stormer in your browser history, perhaps take a look and see if you think it's a site whose members you would be happy to give the keys to your home.

We don't have the slightest reason to believe that Airbnb or anyone else is seeking to exclude members on the basis of their political beliefs or voting records, much less on the basis of merely being conservative. Such a choice would be logistically impossible, extremely unprofitable, and totally impractical. Unfortunately, one danger in these times (due in large part to the ascendance of Trump) is that the extremist, white-nationalist fringe of the right wing has been able to normalize itself - so much that now you even see liberal B&B owners wringing their hands about discrimination against neo-Nazis. They've done that largely by sowing the "multiple attitudes and suspicions observed in the national and local media" to which you refer. They've moved the conversation into their corner, and their intention is to rebrand the conservative mainstream in their image. 

Here in Germany we are all too familiar with the playbook they're using, and we know how it turned out.

[Nathalie-Et-Gilles0]

I read all the previous messages and none mentionned how airbnb choose who is the good guy and the bad guy.

So airbnb desactivated supremacist users because it is against their values and maybe to protect the hosts.

Ok. Fine. Why not.

But they do absolutly nothing against other extremist groups which officially claim a religion must invade the world and women worth half a men and those who resist must be killed.

They meet regularly and officialy. 

And they speak about their murdering ideas on internet.

As a woman who do not have the same ideas and religion, would i be safe?

It seems that airbnb has no worry and one of the terrorist booked with airbnb in Belgium.

The host is still alive. But not his victims.

The fact that many countries believe in the idea that women are under human and people of other religions must be treated as second level human and those with no religion must be killed would shut a very big market to airbnb if they start to chase the 'bad' guys.

In other times, jewish people would probably have their account closed and communist people or suspected to have such ideas in the USA banned as well.

So it is the endless problem when one decide what is good or bad.

No human is God.

And pretend to know is risky.

[Helga0]

Lol, @Nathalie-Et-Gilles0, if you find a user on a terror praising website calling for holy war and alert airbnb, I bet they pull the profile faster than you can say oups 😉

I had bookings at the time of the Bataclan attacks, the worst in Paris. I got a mail offering cancellation without penalties. I got a booking from a muslim my age the next day. Turned out the attacks had shaken him into wanting to check on his son from a former marriage. We spoke openly about reasonable worries and clashing vconcepts how the world should be. He was a bit of a macho, but it was a very good experience.  Everyone is influenced by his upbringing, the values around him, but humans canalso decide to step out of their shell and get a glimpse in other worlds. 

It would be nonsense to block all members of acertain kind, a religion, a political direction, but if they declare themselves openly otside the minimum requirements of an acceptable guest or host, they should be excluded. 

We could discuss minimum requirements and would get different opinions. Mine are preaching hate and planning on or planning to do nothing to avoid harm or damage. 

They can bring their toughts though 😉

[Alice-and-Jeff0]

@Anonymous - Bias is bias no matter what knife you cut it with.  

If this had been a group of African-Americans or Latinos that had links and posts online to being a part of the Crips or Bloods gangs, maybe even pictures with their gang signs and colors clearly visible, people would be screaming to the heavens about how they were being discriminated against by their reservations being cancelled.  Crips and Bloods have a long history of actually commiting violence, especially against each other, and advocate for the destruction and elimination of other gangs and gang members.  Their affiliation is extreme and not inclusive of others. 

We have to be very careful here.  We do not want to weaken the actual rights we are trying to protect - American freedoms in particular -  freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, to name a few.  

[Helga0]

So far, in Charlottesville, where such a rally is ongoing at the moment, they have public uproar, fights between neonazis and antifashists, a car rammed into a crowd and one dead. Yesterday, they had a rally of torch swinging supremacists attacking a far smaller group of protesters and hitting them with the burning torches and other objects. 

All of that but for the car and the dead were expected. But we have to be careful, not to discriminate and exclude potentially nice misunderstood guests. 

In hindsight, I'd say Airbnb applied due caution and averted terrible gosting experiences. 

[Gerry-And-Rashid0]

@Allison2

THere is a massive difference - probably too detailed to go into here, so its a summary and generaliisation.

 Ask yourself the question: would you prefer to share your home with a black hating, LBGTI hating (possibly women hating) couple - - or two people who love one another and just want to be treated with respect.

I know what my asnwer would be as and proud to say I treat everyone equally except those who wish to impose a lifestyle choice on me.

[Cormac0]

@Allison2

I know it sounds hippish, but the older I get the more I believe "LOVE" is the answer. 

There is no room for HATE in my home.

REgards

Cormac

The Explorer's Club Krakow III

[Bruce43]

@Allison2 moved to Israel when I was 28.I have friends from all the sectors and different religions in northern Israel.

All my kids have done the army and at 18 learn about life very early.

I fly to the states almost every year.

I have seen a lot of changes not living in the states.

But my two sons in NY and Austin have friends from all the assorted groups who have come to America over the past 30 years.

All the local shop keepers ask them when their father is coming back to visit.and make them laugh.

I have also changed my news channel to onion news.

At least it's not fake news 😉

Just my two cents.i also have a rainbow flag. 

It's just the rainbow for me.

Shalom 

sorry for blabbing 

[Mike908]

Well David, it's funny, because now they did come for the Jews.

As a protest for your political antisemitic decision to exclude Jewish homes in the West Bank in Israel from AirBnB (Which shows you don't understand the West Bank is a name of a geographic area ruled once by Jordan and home might belong to either side) I will limit my use in AirBnB, and stop using your platform.
As far as I know, Israel is the only conflict zone you took a political stand at. This is called hypocrisy, and it shows your company is influenced by inner political agendas, which a bad for any company.

For all the westeners who support it, the conflict is way too complicated for you to understand while sitting on your comfy couch back home. Your ignorance in the day to day lives being involved is outrageous. Soda Stream's factory moved from the West Bank: results: a lot of Palestinians lost their jobs which included making friendly connections with Jewish peers. Afterwards Soda Stream made a 3 billion $ exit.