AIRBNB BANNING GUESTS UNDER 25 TO BOOK HOMES - THANK YOU AIRBNB!!!!

Sean433
Level 10
Toronto, Canada

AIRBNB BANNING GUESTS UNDER 25 TO BOOK HOMES - THANK YOU AIRBNB!!!!

--In an effort to “reduce instances of unauthorized parties,” Airbnb has announced it will begin banning local guests under the age of 25 from booking entire homes here in Canada. Spokesperson Chris Lehane made the statement during a news conference in Toronto Wednesday afternoon.

 

Airbnb guests under 25 years old will still be able to book a private room within a host’s primary residence, but Lehane says the changes they are testing out this month mean those guests won’t be able to rent an “unhosted home” within a certain geographical distance of where they’re living. Lehane never specified what that distance would be. However, people under 25 with positive Airbnb reviews will still be allowed to book entire homes locally.

 

In a statement, Airbnb said the changes are backed by data suggesting issues related to house parties often occur in areas where the renter lives. Lehane announced a new “24/7 neighbourhood support telephone hotline” in Canada for people dealing with Airbnb-related problems. --

 

I AM VERY HAPPY AIRBNB IS MAKING THIS POLICY CHANGE AS I AM SURE A LOT OF HOSTS IN TORONTO ARE. JUST A FEW DAYS AGO, I POSTED A CONVERSATION AROUND A LARGE SCALE SHOOTING THAT HAPPENED. THIS IS A GREAT START. THANK YOU AIRBNB!!!

 

https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Help/Violent-Shooting-in-Airbnb-3-Dead-2-Injured-in-Toronto-Cana...

40 Replies 40

I do see and understand your points, @Sean433. The concerns are, of course, valid as is the burning need to end these tragedies.

 

However, Airbnb's own Terms of Service prohibit this policy announcement:

 

Section 14 "Prohibited Activites: discriminate against or harass anyone on the basis of race, national origin, religion, gender, gender identity, physical or mental disability, medical condition, marital status, age or sexual orientation, or otherwise engage in any violent, harmful, abusive or disruptive behavior";

 

The laws of Ontario prohibit the same thing.

 

I'm also going to point out that the ToCs state, "Hosts alone are responsible for identifying, understanding, and complying with all laws, rules and regulations that apply to their Listings and Host Services ". I suspect this means that it'll be the hosts who try to limit guests under the age of 25 who will be bearing the brunt of the legal costs.

 

It's one thing for the platform to allow hosts to SAY they require a minimum age for booking, and it's another thing entirely for it to be enforceable. The OHRC is very specific in that it disallows age-based discrimination in very specific instances - accommodation being one of those instances.The courts will decide how to parse this. I guess a similar instance would be that hosts are able to SAY that they don't allow animals, but if a guest with a service animal wishes to book, then it's incumbent upon the host to allow it, as to do anything other than that would be discrimination under the law. There are plenty of long-term landlords who write leases that contain illegal clauses...which is why those agreements say "if anything in this lease is found to be in contravention to the law, that clause will be voided, not the entire agreement". It's up to the tenants to seek enforcement of their rights where contravened.

 

Who will challenge the policy? Every human rights lawyer in Ontario looking to make a name for his/her/them selves.

 

Car insurance doesn't disallow men under a certain age to obtain insurance, it just makes it bloody expensive - which is a reflection of the risk the insurer takes to underwrite the policy. Drinking ages across the world are set by the laws of the particular jurisdiction, not by a corporation looking to enhance or protect its reputation. I can't speak to BDC's policies as I'm not a member, but I do see that their terms are criss-crossed with "where applicable by law". I would suspect that any age restrictions they allow hosts to set would, if challenged, by struck down in jurisdictions which do not allow age-based discrimination.

 

Anti-discrimination laws are in place for excellent reasons, and implementing a policy that allows us to discriminate based on age, in order to eliminate behaviour that is already illegal is a**-backward anyway.

 

What I'm ultimately saying, Sean, is that I believe this policy is simply a PR announcement. It has no basis in law, it contravenes the company's own policies and it will be just as unenforceable as the "party house ban". Since "the measure relies on user-provided information and "user verification systems."", per the article on CBC, it will do nothing to end these tragedies. It will only further muddy the waters for hosts, guests, and the unfortunate customer service reps who are going to have to try to deal with inquiries, complaints and requests for cancellations that it will inevitably raise. There is no down-side risk to Airbnb with this policy, in spite of its spurious nature. That alone makes it suspect in my mind.

Colleen253
Level 10
Alberta, Canada

On a side note...here is an excerpt from an article in the Calgary Herald today:

 

David Wachsmuth, an assistant professor at McGill University and Canada Research Chair in urban governance:

“This really to me feels like of a piece with so many of the PR moves Airbnb engages in,” he said.

“I spend lots of my day looking at data about Airbnb listings, and I feel like if they came out and said, ‘Hey David could you identify some problematic listings for me,’ I’m pretty sure I could do it, and I’m pretty sure they could do it even better.”

 

The company has said it is removing such listings from its site, but Wachsmuth said he still regularly sees them.

 

https://calgaryherald.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/airbnb-limits-young-peoples-ability-to-rent-p...

Sarah977
Level 10
Sayulita, Mexico

While I'm sure there are hosts who are terrible at vetting guests, I have a hard time imagining that anyone wants their house torn up by a blow-out party. There are so many aspects of Airbnb's M.O. that contribute to making it difficult for hosts to properly vet, from pushing IB relentlessly, to scaring hosts into not ever cancelling, or making it a big song and dance to do so, to not practicing due dilignce in checking criminal records and making sure the guest's information, including where they live, is accurate, that it's terrible to put this party house debacle on hosts. It's like blaming a woman for being sexually assaulted because she was wearing a sexy outfit.

The perpetrators of the crimes are the only people who should take any of the blame for this unless it can be conclusively proven that the host actively encouraged or ignored this type of scenario at their listing.



@Sarah977" It's like blaming a woman for being sexually assaulted because she was wearing a sexy outfit."

THIS!!! So much this!

 

In thinking about this thread, it occurs to me that maybe the auto insurance industry has it right. They place a higher premium on higher risk drivers. Maybe, rather than denying service to all locals under the age of 25, the platform should automatically collect a security deposit from these folks. Totally refundable, of course, which would then make it possible for the same people to gather their 3 positive reviews.

 

No damage, no extra cost...but also a deterrent for unauthorized partying. Make it a reasonably high amount (maybe $1000??) for every under-25 local booking. That would, I think, effectively weed this kind of behaviour out. It would NOT be discriminatory, as service isn't being denied, and it would be a risk-based policy. Hmmm. Maybe?

 

 

@Jennifer1421  Fabulous idea! And for sure, just one of a NUMBER of authentic things Airbnb can, but just WILL NOT EVER DO, so they have proven.

@Colleen253 

 

😞

 

Afraid you're right, sadly. But worthwhile to toss it out on the table. Our solutions are solicited so often here by @Lizzie, @Stephanie and other mods and admins, that I think it's worth a try to get it heard. It surely must get tiresome, if not downright soul-sucking to hear us moaning every day but few workable solutions being proposed.

 

That's not to say that solutions aren't proposed all the time, but maybe they're not solutions that are palatable to the company. Maybe this one is...who knows?

Andrew592
Level 2
Toronto, Canada

Has anyone ever acted on this policy? I jsut called in Airbnb because a guest asked us to buy him booze.. Hmm sketchy much?  Called the rep on the phone and asked was he under 25? He said this is age discrimination. I figured he should write an e-mail to his SVP of Global policy because he literally said  that's what Airbnb will do, "https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/airbnb-changes-security-measures-following-deadly-shooting-1...."

 

As a host I'm glad this is happening. I don't want trouble. And majority of my noise complaints comes from under 25 year olds. 

 

Airbnb has give us host 0 tools to help protect our livelihoods.  3 people have died and any seasoned Airbnb host could've stopped that booking right away. 

@Andrew592 

 

Any takeaways from the call? If the booking was made by a local guest before the policy was introduced just about a week ago, I don't think it would apply to the guest.

 

It is such a region specific policy and so new that I am sure most reps you speak to won't know of it.

Nothing if CBC heard their CSRs didn't hear about this policy they would have a field day. 

 

Airbnb looks like more of a mickey mouse organization every day. 

Rowena29
Level 10
Australia

@Sean433 

I haven't read every response so not sure if this has been said, but with airbnb's incredibly lax attitude to profiles I can't see how this could possibly be successfully enforced. It's so easy to get in and alter your address on your profile - I have just tried - I have removed my suburb and my address is now just "Australia" which covers 7.62 million square kilomteres.

Does that make me "local" to New Zealand and New Guinea?

I suspect I could change the country also to Timbuktu if I wanted.

I've had a couple of guests stay who were from "virginia mass" only they weren't they were from a few suburbs away from my listing. they weren't being dishonest - they were over in the USA for work and just hadn't got around to updating their profile - but you see my point.

A squirrel could figure out how to get around this rule quite apart from the arguments as to it's legality

@Jennifer1421 @Colleen253 

@Rowena29 

 

It is easy to alter your profile however they can determine your IP address and from that decipher your area. If I am repeated logging in from a certain region but state I live 200 miles away, they can determine that. Unless the guest has a good IT background but usually IT people are not the type of people that will create violence or trash a home.

@Sean433  Some people use proxies, which hides the IP address, though.

@Sarah977 

There is technology to detect if someone is using a VPN service. Some websites block users who are using that. I am sure if someone is really strong in IT, they can figure it out but those are the types of people who usually sit around and play video games. The harmless type.

@Sean433  You mean the ones whose rooms fill up with pizza boxes, Cheeto  bags and empty Gatorade cans? 🙂

Sean433
Level 10
Toronto, Canada

@Andrew592 @Rowena29 

 

I just received my first local booking request since the policy change and they are indicating if the guest is over 25. I suppose they can only confirm the age range based on the ID provided. If there is no ID on their profile, the host will be unaware of the age.

 

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