Abuse of dominance: Airbnb bullies hosts

Leplubo0
Level 8
Los Angeles, CA

Abuse of dominance: Airbnb bullies hosts

I'm in my 4th year of hosting. Started with airbnb with one property, now got 3 and airbnb only represents 20% of my income. Why? Because they are lying about the coverage of hosts in case of damage. More and more guests know this and abuse the system. More and more hosts realize this and reduce their share of airbnb in favor of alternative marketplaces.

The fact that airbnb is biased favoring the guests is not new to anyone, I guess. But what happened recently is almost unbelievable!

First time guest, an elderly woman from Chicago books. Checks in. I check if all is good, she writes pefect and says she loves the place. No complaint of anything, and the 5 nights stay of her and her family of 8 comes to end. My chek in time is 10, and I have another group coming at 4 pm, so like often, maid needs to work fast.  (this property is 2000 sqft, brand new, remodeled and newly furnished last summer, for up to 14 persons,  considered as mid-range in Orange County, CA or high end in Southern California, had only 5 stars reviews until this guest).

It's now 10:10, since she has not left the property and she does not pick up her phone, the maid knocks at the door. She says she's not done and closes the door. She lets the maid in only at 11. I join later. It was a mess! Food left on the table , dishes unwashed, dirt everywhere, furniture displaced all over, living room armchairs found in the dining room, patio furniture inside the house, pillows  and then a series of damages : Patio table (about $600 value) a blind ($100 value) and a sofa bed cover with a huge stain smelling pee (value $150).
Also my house rules explicitly covers the points about late check out, displaced furniture and every point of my claim.
I write to her the same day with all the pictures and claim $900 (damage + extra cleaning + my time would add up more). She denies everything except the unwashed dishes and accepts to pay $50, but goes online and writes the nastiest review I ever had and the only one star review i got  in 4 years hosting.

I have airbnb involved. Everything was already super detailed documented with a link to Google Photos and high resolution pictures. Table damage being in zoom in the middle of the pic in a prominent way, the broken blind is in a broken position with one side up the other side down, again prominent view, etc...

Joe , the "specialist" from Airbnb Distrust And Unsafety department writes back to me and says this:

--------------------------------

Hi Leplubo,

Thank you for reaching out to us. My name is Joe, and I'm a Trust and Safetyspecialist. I'll be your point of contact throughout the processing of this case.

You are requesting $900 for the following Items: 
1. Late checkout. 
2. Unwashed dishes.
3. Extra work to reset the furniture.
4. Kitchen knife.
5. Broken blinds.
6. Patio Table.
7. Toothbrush holder.
8. Sofa Bed cover.

So far, you have provided us with some photo of the Items and web link to the replacement items.

In order to ensure swift payment, we need more from you:

Please know that our team work with the physical damage only. Some of your submitted photo doesn't seem to be damaged for the following items below: 
(No proof of damage or loss) 
4. Kitchen knife.
5. Broken blinds.
6. Patio Table.

We ask that you provide the following for 4-6:
- Detailed photo of each item damaged by your guest.

Additionally, please provide at least one of the following for "the blinds" and "Patio Table" that you are requesting for reimbursement:

5. Broken blinds: 
- Website showing the average cost of service to repair or replace the item.
- A professional's invoice with repair costs and an incident report describing how the issue arose and why the guest is liable.

6. Patio Table: 
- A professional's invoice with repair costs and an incident report describing how the issue arose and why the guest is liable.

Please submit the requested documentation by 21 April 2019. If you need more time to gather it, please communicate how much time you think you might need.

Should you have any questions or concerns, just reply to this message.

Best,

Joe

---------------------------------------

 

As you may have noticed:

1) Only physcial damage matters. Airbnb explicitly says they don't care if a guest leaves human feces on your beautiful hardwood floor, as long as it can be cleaned. Or of they smoke in your gorgeous non smoking home. Oh the guest checks out late? Host's problem, airbnb does not care.

2) The pictures are absolutely clear (I am a photographer). And later I called airbnb and the rep agreed pics were obvious. Yet, Joe wrote "your submitted photo doesn't seem to be damaged". He could have well written "I am blind" it would be the same.

3) Where it becomes absolutely unbelievable is when he writes this "A professional's invoice with repair costs and an incident report describing how the issue arose and why the guest is liable." They want someone with crystal ball to write down how the guest destroyed my table!!!! Or how they destroyed my blinds?

 

I was mad... I replied to Joe that he was obviously looking for a pretext to deny my request, or maybe he needs glasses. He replied they fund me $19 (not a joke) and closed the file. He and other reps I called refused to have a manager involved stating that the Distrust and Unsafety specialist at airbnb has final words on these claims.

Yes Airbnb sold their 4 year old host, who had brought hundreds of thousands of $ or gross revneu , with a 4.9* average rating from 80 or more guests to a first time guest who broke most of the house rules and denied everything.

Do you really think this business is fair? Or sustainable?

I had my first bad experience only after one year of hosting but there are now more and more frequent. 

I have reduced my share of airbnb from 100% to 20% and count days to be able to delist. I don't have any of these issues on alternative platforms who respect the host and thanks to the real desposit under the hosts's control, guests behave.

Anyone seeing the same trend I am seeing with things getting unreasonably unfair when there is damge or broken house rules?

 

 

50 Replies 50
Leplubo0
Level 8
Los Angeles, CA

Oh forgot to mention: And of course airbnb refuses to remove the review despite the written proof in the communication with guest where she says all is good, beautiful house, thanks for letting us use yoru house etc... and as soon as I send her the pics and claim compensation for the damages she goes and gives me a one star nasty review. Airbnb considers this is normal. In other ways, STFU and accept whatever the guests wants, otherwise you'll get a bad review and we all know what it means for your future bookings.

Christopher-and-Elisa0
Level 10
Margaret River, Australia

@Leplubo0 This is terrible and I’m sorry that this has happened to you. Unfortunately it seems this is Airbnb’s standard response tho such events.

You mention that you have diversified to other platforms and these are much better than Airbnb. I’ve read opinions that other platforms are as bad and unhelpful as Airbnb so I’m curious to know what other platforms you’re using?

@Christopher-and-Elisa0 not sure if you read it all. I truly hope asking "an incident report describing how the issue arose" is not standard airbnb response to such events (and in fact it's not because I have involved them before and never had this phrase), because otherwise Airbnb deserves some lawsuits including class action lawsuit. There is NO 3rd PARTY EXPERT, or forensic or even a simple handyman who would write "how" the guest damaged a table or a blind, because 1) who knows 2) who cares... the fact is that they damaged it.

You wrote "I’ve read opinions that other platforms are as bad and unhelpful as Airbnb".... it's easy for you find the answer: the #1 global alternative platform to airbnb 1) takes and holds the cash amount of the security deposit at the time of the booking 2) does not require the guest's approval for releasing it to the host.

See ? You don't need to listen to people's opinions, these are facts. When you have the desurity deposit in hand, guest's behavior is TOTALLY different. And actually with 4 times more guests from the alternative platform I had never had any incident close to the ones I am experiencing with airbnb guests. And the security deposit and the way it's unconditionably usable by the host is obvioulsy the reason.

Like in a traditional long term rental with the security deposit in the hands of the landlord, in case of issues, landlord keeps it and the burden of the proof is with the tenant/guest. Airbnb is harming hosts by doing things the other way around. They force us to either shut up and take the loss or to beg the guests for compensation, triggering a bad review not reflecting the reality and at the end not even receiving compensation, neither by the guest nor by the wealthy airbnb who built their wealth on the back of hard working entrepreneurs or small homeowners.

 

@Leplubo0 

It is standard language for them the moment amount gets high and definitely when it exceeds the security deposit. They once asked me for a statement from a licensed chair repair professional certifying as to how chair broken. Where do I even begin to explain what is wrong with that sentence. A friends dad often says when someone does something bad to me: what makes you think you are special? They do it to everyone. We are not special to Airbnb, you and I. They do this to everyone.

And you have to admit, that “other” platform has its own big faults. For example, they do not guarantee payments. If the payment bounces, card is stolen or guests never pay second installment- its your problem.

Having said that, what Airbnb does in terms of reimbursement for such behavior, which one can claim may even be punishable by law (destruction of personal property) is ridiculous and I do not know why they continue with this farce called host guarantee.

Please make sure to see your claim through and send them arbitration notice if you do not get anywhere.

@Inna22 loved your point about how they treat everyone the same way...

That said, this was not my first claim with them but the first time I see this unreasonable request which proves they want to deny before even looking into it.

 

On VRBO you can set it up to receive full payment at booking with no installement. It's in yoru setup. Now VRBO is not perfect for last minute bookings. And I am fine with it. Here's how it works. There payment processing requires 2 to 3 days to get the money in. If the guest was a scammer and made a same day booking, with experience you should know there is a high risk. Moreover, on shady card numbers VRBO does send you a warning saying you are at risk. I am fine with all that.

 

Last point, you wrote: "Please make sure to see your claim through and send them arbitration notice if you do not get anywhere." Please develop...what you mean?

@Leplubo0 It is a resilience test. If you can survive the first round of questions and requests and will still be standing after the second, they will offer you a $78 settlement. As for arbitration: if they deny or do not offer enough, the next step is arbitration. Message me if you get to that point but it is easier than they make it look.

As for VRBO- yes, last minute ones are the risky kind. You are right, I can make it a one time payment but I am worried that since my places are a little pricier, it might turn some people off.

@Inna22 pricier than? Just checked your listings and they are actually not pricier than mine at least. I don't want the booking to be a stretch financially for the guests. So these all work great for me.

The only minor issue with VRBO's user interface and technology is not as nice as airbnb and as a techy myslef I had some issues with that at the beginning but I learned that I should look into how they help me. At the end of the day I now prefer those lovely seniors and families booking on VRBO who treat my place responsibly and have no issues paying the premium nights than some of those irresponsible and infamous airbnb junkies. Of course I am not generalizing but I am sure you see what I mean... 

@Leplubo0 

I did not mean pricier than yours, just I guess pricier than average that Airbnb releases as their data. But if you have had no issues, I am thinking I should regroup and try asking for the entire amount upfront.

Robin4
Level 10
Mount Barker, Australia

@Leplubo0 

You have told us that you have photos and a wealth of evidence in your posession.

It has been well documented in the past that the one thing that Airbnb responds to with amazing speed is having their 'dirty linen' aired on mainstream media!

TV media outlets are all the time on the look-out for juicy short term rental horror stories.

An approach by a media researcher regarding Airbnb's response to a timely spot on a current affairs program will probably see 'Trust and Safety' leap to your defense at a speed you would not have thought possible from Airbnb!

 

Cheers......Rob

You are right @Robin4 . I might just contact them, even though it's probably no longer a secret. Thanks for the comment.

Sarah977
Level 10
Sayulita, Mexico

@Leplubo0  Abyssmal CS response and sorry you had these terrible guests. All the best pursuing this.

If I may offer a tip for dealing with CS in general, that I have found helps, although I have never had to put in a claim for damages.

Although it sticks in my craw to have to do so, I always remain unfailingly polite, even if I am telling them that their response is not acceptable, and am seething inside, which is quite the juggllng act.

Saying anything sarcastic to a CS rep, "maybe you need glasses", or telling them that they are obviously looking for an excuse not to pay up will turn them against you and they will cease to engage with you and close the case. 

Remaining factual, sticking to your guns, being persistent, posting the TOS that references policy pertinent to your situation, keeping communication simple (i.e. bullet point style and short sentences rather than long paragraphs) and non-accusing is much more likely to get more satisfatory responses. I often try to engage somewhat on a personal level such as ending every message with "Thank you for your time". "I realize your job isn't easy", "It's late here now- going to bed. Have a nice day or night, depending on where you may be." 

I've had interactions with CS personnel where I basically told them that their response was unacceptable and incompetent and that this kind of thing gives Airbnb a bad name, but did it such a way that the CS rep ended up sincerely apologizing and started to address the situation on point. There is a lot of incompetency on the part of Airbnb CS, and they are generally directed in how to respond by higher-ups, but they also have some leeway and personal interpretations of things. Try to get them on your side, rather than blaming them for policy they have no control over. While I have little patience for robotic responses and incompetency, CS fields calls and messages from angry users all day and I do have a bit of sympathy for them. Hearing acknowledgement like, "I know you've worked hard on this today, thank you", even if a resolution hasn't yet been reached, can work wonders in your favor.

@Sarah977

great perspective. I usually let them have it and I shouldn’t. And when they are overly polite (which is usually when they want something from me such a refund to the guest0, it bothers me even more for some reason

@Inna22  I know. I hate those platitudes like "Thank you for being a great Superhost, we really value your hard work and dedication" after they've just given you some totally inappropriate non-response or useless link to the Help pages.

What I suggested above is calculated diplomacy, designed to ellicit appropriate and helpful responses, not necessarily sincere, like I said, sometimes I don't feel like being nice to them at all, but I want a favorable result. It's like wanting nothing more than to smack your kid for their behavior, because you're so mad, but knowing that is wrong, taking a deep breath and using all those parenting skills you've read and developed.

 

@Sarah977 

If Airbnb were my child I would run out of hours in the day for time outs. It will never get any desert or watch TV. Probably grounded most of the time. I will make it take summer classes in computer science and it would be kicked out of PE class for making the teacher jump through the hoops