Arbitration Agreement Fail

[Tony134]

Hey All,

As most of you know, I've been pretty unhappy with how Airbnb has been dealing with CS and cancellations as of late.  As it has only gotten worse with no end in sight, I finally filed a complaint with and requested help from the United States Department of Justice.

Airbnb has a pretty flimsy arbitration agreement that prevents you, me, and other hosts from suing them, it requires arbitration instead with a '3rd party' that just happens to be... of Airbnb's choosing.  They are using this arbitration agreement to protect themselves from Employment lawsuits.  They reasons they are doing this are pretty obvious:  if you look at employment laws, it's pretty clear we're not really self employed.  Airbnb calls all the shots, handles all the money and the financial decisions, and most telling of all, hosts handle 100% of Airbnb's guest bookings.  Anything more than 50% and Airbnb shouldn't be qualifying us as contractors, but they do.

If I was totally wrong about this, Airbnb wouldn't need to hide behind an arbitration agreement; but I'm not wrong.  This is how airbnb skirts the law to use your home, furnishings, time, and money to make their bank account swell without accountability.

I have written the Justice Department simply to ask their advice on skirting or nullifying the arbitration agreement, or on how to get a true day in court with Airbnb.

For those of you that have been upset with Airbnb and not gotten resolution, or waited over a month for CS to call you back, only to close your cases with no good reason, please, do us all a favor and contact the Justice Department today.  Writing in these forums is having no effect, and Airbnb clearly paid someone at the BBB to instantly(overnight, I have the pictures, see below) put their rating up from D- to A+, so complaining at BBB useless unfortunately.  Magic! (Or Bribery)

[John1574]

@Tony134 

Go Tony!  Great thread.

"I have written the Justice Department simply to ask their advice on skirting or nullifying the arbitration agreement, or on how to get a true day in court with Airbnb."

I can't wait to hear back from them.

For those of you that have been upset with Airbnb and not gotten resolution, or waited over a month for CS to call you back, only to close your cases with no good reason, please, do us all a favor and contact the Justice Department today. 

Do you have a link or any contact info for us to write to?

Writing in these forums is having no effect, and Airbnb clearly paid someone at the BBB to instantly(overnight, I have the pictures, see below) put their rating up from D- to A+, so complaining at BBB useless unfortunately.  

They are a joke, anyway.

They are using this arbitration agreement to protect themselves from Employment lawsuits.  They reasons they are doing this are pretty obvious:  if you look at employment laws, it's pretty clear we're not really self employed.  Airbnb calls all the shots, handles all the money and the financial decisions, and most telling of all, hosts handle 100% of Airbnb's guest bookings.  Anything more than 50% and Airbnb shouldn't be qualifying us as contractors, but they do.

Are there any pending cases against AirBnB on this employee versus contractor status for hosts?

What exactely is your end game?  What do you want to happen?

[Tony134]

I would bet my hat that the Justice Department has looked at and heard from hosts before this, it's a matter of numbers and obvious patterns.  Many of us hosts are incredibly full time for Airbnb, and 100% of Airbnb's revenue comes from hosting.  Aside from what they've drawn up in their contracts, I can't imagine how this wouldn't qualify us all as employees.  They call all the shots, they control all the money, the whole operation hinges on the 'contractors.'  My understanding is parts of a contract that conflict with the law aren't valid, and I don't think they can easily contract away millions of people's right to employment law protections.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to be self employed, with exactly the arrangement Airbnb appears to offer -> them being a listing service, managing the website.  It's just not what's happening.  Honestly, if I had known that up front, I wouldn't have made a significant investment into housing, furniture, supplies, and time to host guests in the first place.  I thought I was starting my own little business on Airbnb with them as a hosting website, but found myself working like a dog for them instead for very little profit each month, especially compared to the hours put in.  That situation of thinking it was one thing and finding it's another AFTER investing thousands of dollars and hours, I just constantly feel like I was TRICKED into working for Airbnb at low wage.   =(  I'm betting this is exactly why other hosts are mad about these cancellation and booking changes as well.

That feeling of being tricked into it gets worse every day.  It takes a while for all the numbers to speak up, many new hosts will have no idea this is the way it is until they've taken many bookings, so it's easy for Airbnb to trick me and throw me away like a piece of garbage when they just replace me with new unsuspecting hosts.  It's a horrible feeling, and the time, money, and energy sunk into the whole thing just feels horrid.

I've tried many times to find someone inside Airbnb to talk to, there is no real person available.  My game plan is to personally start a dialogue with Justice department so that when they do look at Airbnb(if they aren't already), my input is there, and hopefully to encourage everyone else that feels this way to do the same.  Probably the Justice Department, like anyone else, starts paying attention when more people speak up.

If you the reader are interested in becoming involved, please contact the Justice Department Civil Rights Division at the link below.  Let them know the kind of problems that you have had with Airbnb, and let them know that binding arbitration is not a realistic option in your employment struggles.  Like everything else they do, Airbnb has you tied into arbitration because it's best for them, not because it's best for everyone.

https://www.justice.gov/crt/how-file-complaint

[Kelly149]

@Tony134 this statement I agree with:

Airbnb calls all the shots, handles all the money and the financial decisions, and most telling of all, hosts handle 100% of Airbnb's guest bookings.

However, I don't think this statment is accurate:

 100% of Airbnb's revenue comes from hosting

I have no basis other than a hunch that all of us are pawns in a data mining operation. As it seems to me, the expenses that ABB incurs for processing payments, arguing with hosts about problems, maintaining the website, etc are all about a wash for the fees that they receive. However, all the data that they are collecting as a part of this operation is perhaps the true product. I'd bet that what they make from banking float time on payments, selling all of our search info, booking info, etc is more than what they make on their booking percentages, but that's just my cynical guess.

Btw, HomeAway has better host cancellation terms, you may not have the wrong business idea so much as the wrong business partner.

good luck

[Ann10]

Great work, Tony! I saw the thing at BBB.org and I thought they must have gotten an A+ because they must settle all of the complaints brought against them at BBB.org. I was completely perplexed by that and I couldn't figure out any other reason except that they must be settling the cases. I think it was almost 2K. I could be wrong about that as I'm going from memory. When I want to get my money, I go outside of this forum to complain. 

[Ann10]

Ok, I just looked at your screenshot. It looks a bit different than I remember. Funny, trustpilot.com has so many complaints against them and they get a 1 out of 5 stars. They are rated the lowest out of all Short Term Rental sites. Then there is pissedconsumer.com, and airbnbhell.com. Plus, all the complaints on different Facebook groups. It doesn't add up. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

[Ann10]

I need to take them to court again or arbitration or whatever. I have another replay of the Kevin T debacle to the tune of 7K and I want my money. My problem is that my place in NYC and there are issues so I may need to do arbitration. This time a "Trust and Safety Specialist" who isn't fluent in English, thought I gave out my email before the reservation was made. I didn't. I had no reason to do it because I knew I could in a few minutes, plus I knew it would be blocked out.  I was in a different time zone than I'm normally in and their system is super slow. When she realized she was wrong, she made up another reason which was a non-material infraction. 

Last time I took legal action against them, they went through all my messages looking for something I did wrong and they saw that I did this thing, but I still booked all the guests through the site. They didn't say one word about it. They just blocked my coded words. This person then used my new coded system as an excuse to steal 7K from me. Even though it's just the way I  protect myself and the guest from the idiocy of Airbnb. Anyway, this "T&S Specialist", threatened me several times which is against the TOS.

Someone else from Airbnb called me to apologize for what she(Jay is her nickname, I have the real name written down somewhere) had done and said I didn't deserve it. I said I wanted my money and I was going to take legal action if I didn't get it. BTW, I asked the guest to confirm on the message thread that I didn't give out my email before the reservation was made, and Jay shut down my account so I couldn't see the response. I had to call Airbnb and get them to turn my account back on.

I have been recording all these calls. Later, a manager(they used to say they didn't have managers) told me there was no record of my account being shut down. Actually, it was shut down 2x and I recorded the calls when I called in to get my account turned back on. I have been recording all the calls.

She said she would call back the next day at the same time but never did. Later, I found out, that the 1st T&S Specialist(Jay) took back "ownership" of the case. So in short, Airbnb doesn't have a moral flow chart. They have a power flow chart. In the end, the 1st "T&S Specialist", named Jay threatened that if I brought it up again she would deactivate my account, meaning if I call and complain again, I'm done. She said it was for the safety of the site. I wish I could post a screenshot of the email. How does a complaint about "Jay" threaten the safety of the community? It's sickening. 

On one of the recorded calls, I asked this guy named AJ why all the T&S people, "case managers", "mediators" all end up w the same draconian mentality?  He said I'm not going to sit here and listen to you criticize "Jay" or words to that effect. I said, " no AJ, I asked you a question, I wasn't criticizing her. I was asking why the people who make decisions about my income, my livelihood, are trained in this way. I'm talking about morality. Then he said something like, I understand what you are saying, but I talking about this isn't going to change the situation and the call got disconnected. Oh yeah, AJ told me recording the calls was against the TOS, but I scoured them and I couldn't find anything. Does anyone know? 

In the beginning of the call he said threatening people was one of the reasons they only wanted people to use the message thread. Later when I told him that "Jay" threaten me, he got amnesia about ABB policy and couldn't remember if it was against them or not. I told him it was and I cut and pasted the part about threating people and sent it to her. 

[Ann10]

I see I spelled threatened and threatening, and some other words wrong. It's too late to edit. Sorry about that. I do have a problem w some words. I'll admit that.

[David126]

You are not tied to AirBnB, many Hosts use other means of generating bookings.

You set your prices.

Can not see how this could be construed as an Employee relationship.

[Tony134]

@David126

Unfortunately David, I pretty much am tied in unless I want to call the last two years a total wash.  I bought furniture and got a house specifically to be an Airbnb, and had a second property modified to be used for seperate room rentals.

If HomeAway/VRBO did individual room rentals, I would be out of here in a heartbeat.  The only website that has a good lock on private rooms in shared house is Airbnb unfortunately.

Also, even if I could pick up and leave, that is not in any way a determining factor in what makes the difference between an employee and a contractor.  Both can do that.  I highly suggest you look directly at employment law, you will find you are in fact not self employed, but a glorified Airbnb employee.  =(

[John28]

I understand your probem, but consider this....these missing payments are going somewhere and I believe Airbnb knows exactly where they are going. I wonder if another approach would be to focus on the criminal aspect of Airbnb, particularly theft, tampering with electronic devices, not theirs! Also, misleading and false advertisements. The list continues to grow. They are involved with illegal activity that I am certain! A class action lawsuit should be filed and I’m fairly certain there would be many law firms who would gladly take them on without the hosts shelling out a dime! 

[Ann10]

Hi Tony,

I just found this site called housli. You can also list on wimdu, 9flats, and roomi. I'm almost finshed w my housli listing. I will let you know how it goes. I'm going to get going on roomi too. I hope this helps.

Ann aka Lisa Ann aka Lisa.

You guys can call me Lisa :).

[Andreas-and-Anna0]

Agreed

[Sarah977]

@David126  Any independent contractor I've ever hired doesn't wait until the job is half-completed to recieve any funds- they require at least half up front before they even start- this covers estimates, materials, salaries an so on. Airbnb holds all the money until after the guest checks in, even though hosts have already had to spend $ stocking amenities, cleaning, spending time communicating with the guests pre-arrival, etc. Nor do independent contractors have to be star rated by their clients, held to some ridiculous algorithmic percentage standard, call a company in order to decide not to work for a client and then get punished for it by "big daddy". They don't have anyone else suddenly plastering something on their advertising (Home Highlights), or telling them their photos are "too dark" or "too blurry".

That's only some of the ways that hosts are definitely not of "contractor"status as it is commomly understood.

[Ann10]

Airbnb has started to pay me up front. Last night I got a booking for August 17 at my dad's place that I manage and they sent the money last night. They have been doing that all the time lately.  I don't know if it's because I have a big mouth and I told their employees that there is no such thing as an institution that holds your money and doesn't make or give interest to the client or what. 

They actually had their employees brainwashed to believe that such an institution exists. I couldn't believe it. Where do they find these people? I felt like I was dealing w a cult. The girl on the phone told me that the other employees were shocked at what I had said. I told her to read "Free Market Enterprise" by Milton Freedman. I don't even think communist countries have banks that don't give interest. When I went to China, I was pretty sure the bank gave interest. No one would create an institution to hold money and not make or give out interest. I asked the girl the name of the institution and she said it was confidential. I told her, it was confidential because there was no such thing. Poor girl! 

Oh! She also said, "do you think I'm lying" and I said, "no, I think you and your co-workers have been lied to about the banking system". I'm wondering, do they intentionally hire uneducated people?