Arctic Weather In New Hampshire

[Sean205]

We started renting our Park Model RV Cabin (400SF) 3-4 months ago, we had just installed septic and water early November. mountainside on 18 Acres in the woods.

We did our best to insulate all the water, heat tape on main coming in, enclosed and insulated pipes on external water heater, hay bales around the entire cabin, really did a lot of work to make sure water stayed on before the cold weather hit.

Then we had a guest staying over Christmas for 7 nights- and water was fine until temperature went to -5 and things started to freeze on the third day.  I had someone there working on it that same day, and we got it going again, then a couple days later we hit -10 and water went down again.  This was around Christmas and on a sunday and my handyman could not get over there until the next day - he had set up a bunch of heaters to thaw the cold spots etc.  The entire region has been slammed- many homes had pipes freezing etc.  So my handyman (I live 3 hours south) came over and again started to work on the cold spots, by this time they were checking out the next day, it took a full two days for the pipes to thaw out and for water to run again.  By then they had checked out, now this whole time they were understanding etc as it WAS COLD (cabin was super warm as it has propane heat and a wood stove) and clearly this was an extreme event.

So basically out of 7 nights, they had no water for 2.5 days that they were there.  They checked out and said thank you- and I messaged them (I DID THIS) that if they wanted "some discount" to let me know (I was thinking $100-$150, rate was $100 a night).  And they said YES that would be appreciated, and I was about to figure out how to make that happen and they said - we will initiate it through ABB, so I said ok and waited.  THEN the request for money came in at $400 !  More than half of the $700 we got for the week!  I was a little surprised but I could kind of understand at the same time, BUT this weather, as everyone in New England knows - has been the coldest in DECADES - and just brutal - the whole area has been on lockdown.

Up to this point we had had about 15 rental experiences and I was maintaining a 5 star (100%) rating.  I was concerned so I did not complain about the amount requested, paid the $400 and gave them a good review (they were fine overall).  So after I did that, they gave us a review that was not so great, 4 stars, and complained a bit about water going out.  I felt that it was frankly a bit of an excessive request amount of refund and they were taking some advantage of the situation - and then when I complied - I feel that I should have had a better rating than they gave as when you get a refund like that on an issue that was somewhat out of my control, that I was entitled to a better review (when you get refunded for an issue like this that should be it, you should not also complain about it in the review).  

We then got the water going, had another guest over new years eve - all seemed OK - then boom - it went to -16 overnight new years!  With wind chill brought it to -30 or so!  Same thing, handyman came over immediatly and started to thaw pipes etc - but it never got above -5 the whole time and the next night went again to -15 or so with -30 windchills!  So they basically had water for 1/2 of the two nights they were there - they were really understanding about it as this was just ridiculously cold, they did ask for a small discount and they were so nice and I felt so bad about it that I refunded them in full for the two nights (my part and not cleaning fee), they were very grateful and left a 5 star rating and noted the issue but that I was immediatly responsive and did all we could to remedy a very difficult situation.  

Now - after looking back on this and now the current BombCylone we are having - my question becomes - what responsibility do I have over these extreme weather events?  Am I to just refund people when bad weather hits?  We also had a power outage during the first storm over Christmas, it came back within a couple hours but am I responsible for that as well?  What if it did not come back for a day or two?  Am I responsible to refund then too?  

At this point we are making somewhat dramatic (overkill) efforts to secure piples and make sure we are good even at -50 below but the question still bodes.  At what point are we responsible for these extreme acts of nature?  If I were renting a beach house, would I refund guests because it rained the entire time? 

Thanks 🙂 

Sean

[Gerry-And-Rashid0]

@Sean205

You did the right thing. It is likely that your guests would have recieved a  100% refund if they had claimed through AirBNB as it is an extreme event and they probably could have cancelled and got a total refund.

I would say that in this istance of such an extreme event  you either cancel fortcoming bookings or...contact them in advance and explain the situationa and tell them what has happened so far and how much you will refund them if they are without water for any period.

Put yourself in their situation - no water for  2..5 days - I would be pretty hacked off that my holiday had  been ruined (even though it's not your fault!)

[Sean205]

Thanks - but there was no warning prior...and they did not cancel prior - they stayed the entire time.  How could they get 100% based on 2.5 days out of 7 with a water issue in extreme weather conditions where there was no warning?  I don't see that as reasonable either.  And it was 2.5 days total not in sequence...

I have warned our new upcoming guests (next weekend) but temps look to be getting back to normal by then - but yes I am out in front of this now - but question still remains.  

If I were in a cabin, in NH, and the weather was the coldest in 30+ years - I am not so sure I would be upset "with the host" about it.  So it's ok since you are upset about your vacation to take it out on the faultless host?  I did put myself in their situation, I would have soldiered on and had a great time.  I would have asked for some discount yes but I would not have asked for over half the total rate, that is excessive and taking advantage of a situation in my mind.  Thanks for the input.  I do agree somewhat but not entirely....  🙂 

[Sean205]

Funny one of my early experiences w ABB - we stayed at a lake house for 4-5 days- put all our food in the fridge - and discovered the next day that is was not working well (cold but no where near cold enough) and all our food was bad by then, they sent repair person but could not figure out what was wrong - so we lost all our food and basically had a cool place to store new food but no refrigerator that worked.  Host was on it, and they were new (we were their first guests) we probably lost about $50 worth of food and I did not have a cold beer the entire time (that hacked me off and about ruined my holiday). 

They did not offer any % refund or to cover the food that spoiled, just an apology.  I did not ask for one either, I figured, **bleep** happens.  Why be a whiney bitch about it.  But thats just me 😉 

Force Majuere.  I think this applies:

A Force Majeure clause: is a contract provision that allows a party to suspend or terminate the performance of its obligations when certain circumstances beyond their control arise, making performance inadvisable, commercially impracticable, illegal, or impossible.   This clause is included in contracts to remove liability for natural and unavoidable catastrophes that interrupt the expected course of events and restrict participants from fulfilling obligations.      

[Kimberly54]

Hi @Sean205, big bummer, but I believe Force Majuere applies to both parties, right?

Stay warm!

[Sean205]

It applies to the party receiving the service.... 🙂  Oh we are warm thank you!  

[Bryan93]

I understand your frustration, but it is also frustrating to not have water. Wind chill does not affect pipes and it seems that you are going to have to make some repairs or this may keep happening. -15 should not cause your pipes to freeze if you have the proper pipes that are well insulated. Otherwise, everyone from Wisconsin to Idaho would not have water all winter.

[Paul154]

@Sean205

In perfect, neutral world, Guests would leave in cases of unsuitability of habitation. You would need to refund the unused days, but keep the revenue from the used days.

However, in Airbnb, you are at beck and call of AIrbnb's determination. There is a posibility that guest could stay the whole time and then demand 100% refund.  Airbnb might clawback all your revenue!

So you are doing fine negotiating a refund with the guests as you are doing.

Get their acceptance in writing through the message board/resolution center.

As you know, you are playing with fire. You are getting revenue from a non-conforming unit. It is a gamble, You may not always get revenue and you do have high maintenence costs. No judgement here, just reality.

You could reduce your financial risk by having a 3 day maximum during the wintertime.

[Fred13]

  Two years ago I had a similar situation, a barely hurricane-force storm (75-mile winds) came through my area just as guest were arriving, I gave them the choice: want to go the 2nd day or not, they said they want to go; there would be no power in town for 5 days anyway.

   Then it took a Herculian effort to make it all work, with all kinds of crazy exhausting gyrations like sending them off on a day tour to the main reef (which I paid for) while we raked the island, and got it ready for them; I refunded them 1/4 days (the first day). In retrospect, I would have cancelled them immediately and informed Airbnb that due to weather conditions (aka extraordinary circumtances) the place is not suitable for their stay, and they would have undoubtedly gone along with that. And I would have skipped the whole unnecessary 'nightmare', at my end that is, not the guests' who really didn't quite appreciated the supreme effort, judging by their general manner. Some things are just not worth it, even for all the tea in China.

P.S. They are the ONLY guests that have ever given me all fours (4)!

[Sean205]

I had a handyman there for many many hours - can't wait to see that bill 🙂  Yes I agree if they accept the deal you proposed and you did all these things to support the situation - you should get all 5's unless something else was amiss.  I am thinking not to bother in winter -since that is when we use the cabin the most anyways.  I block out during the week since we don't go on weekends and go up M-TH but now I am rethinking that entirely.  Of course there is also a good chance we will never lose water again too. 

[Fred13]

Really Sean, I am really impressed with your effort, goodness I would have tried giving you 10 stars for being so conscientious. I lived in upstate NY and Idaho I could only imagine what you went through to make it work. Btw, what an awesome place.

[Matthew285]

@Sean205, how in the world do you get water to that lovely cabin in the first place? It seems so remote...

Anyway, even though only a few people have chimed in so far, it seems opinions are going to vary a lot on this.

For myself, I am more like you: if it seems the host has prepared and done what any reasonable person would have done to make the property comfortable and as described, I don't down-rate them for unusual circumstances. It seems you have taken near heroic measures to keep the water flowing in your cabin, but it is hard to beat Mother Nature at her own game.

No, I would not like it if the water stopped during my vacation. But then again, I wouldn't book a cabin on 18 private and remote acres of mountain land in the dead of winter and expect everything to be like a house in the city.

You are not responsible for the extremes of nature.

Unfortunately one of the "extremes of nature" are the varying expectations of AirBnB guests.

Maybe one of the ways to prepare would be to also prepare the guests?

Let them know all the wonderful things you have done to prepare the cabin for the extreme weather, and also let them know that the weather still can affect their vacation. Tell them that is part of living in the mountains. Honestly, if you didn't want the mountain cabin experience, why book a cabin in the mountains?

[Sean205]

Yes I agree with you.  There was one guest in between Christmas and New Years and they were very cool about it being all part of the country mountain experience!  They did not ask for any discount.  

We put in a dug well and yes it was not easy on a rocky ridge ($$) to get that going - it is a fantastic location and cabin with fantastic views !  

I am thinking of not even renting in the winter -its only a few months.  Or saying that if temperatures go below 5 degress that we cannot gurantee normal services and that you need to be OK with it....I don't know still thinking I guess.

Thanks for your input.

[Sarah977]

While I think you did the right thing by these renters, and appear to be very responsible re getting the reapirman out ASAP, and while you cannot predict extreme weather conditions, it seems to me that it really isn't fair to potential guests to be renting out a space in the dead of winter, in an area which does have harsh winters, with your present water set-up. It obviously has the potential to be an ongoing problem at least part of every winter, with the possibility that you'll be dealing with many re-imbursements and/or less than favorable reviews. 

If it were my place, I'd either come up with a better set-up where the water freezing is not possible, provide an alternate water supply (a big tank in a heated space that you could fill, with a valve to switch over to that tank should the regular piping freeze, maybe) or forego listing for the deep winter months.

[Fred13]

Good point Sarah, yes there is the reality of weather risk during certain times of the year in some locations. In my area (Central America) it is hurricanes, and I rent all summer long, and my object lesson from my past experience (described above) is, if one is coming no one gets to stay.  Thank goodness, today such events do come with much warning, at least a week ahead. We do watch them like a hawk.