Condo Board Sent me a notice to stop hosting

[Alexander15]

I have to cancel my reservations starting in a week after recieving a notice from my condo board.  What is the best way to do this?  Does this count as an extenuating circumstance?

A real bummer, I was having a great time hosting and meeting people.

Thank you

[Helga0]

@Alexander15, @Anonymous, @Maxine0, @Maryam-Al-Fakheer0, @Shannon0,

Hi everyone,


thank you everyone who decided to come onto this thread – Alexander you got probably a surprise opening your mailbox and seeing the flood. I'll try to keep it to one message - to keep it short would be harder to me;-)

I'm impressed by your way of handling the crisis. You are certainly a very good host on whom guests can depend on in all circonstances. From a commercial point of view, it is more interesting to have reliable partners who can resolve even a dire crisis on their own leaving good impressions on the clients and not involving customer service for ridiculous questions.

In my estimation, it is in Airbnb's best interest to keep you hosting and not scare you off for good. Even if you loose the fight at hand with the condo board, you may find another place in three days, next year or in a few years, where you could exerce your skills and make money for yourself and Airbnb. Or make it for another intermediary...

In that sense, I proposed to negotiate a deal with Airbnb to waive part of the consequences to keep you as a convinced image ambassador for Airbnb, a future guest and a future host as well.

There is nothing immoral in such a proposition, it's a commercial deal which is frequently concluded between airbnb and hosts, between business partners, even between companies and the tax authorities of different countries.

From a psychological point of view, it's very hard to give money back but it is easier to waive future money, the more so if it's improbable to recover it. In that sense, you will have to be a very sharp negotiator to get the payment for your not yet paid hosting. Even if it hurts to lose money for which you worked, I would concentrate to keep the fines limited to that amount or better that amount less the charges you really had to host those guests. But in compensation, I hope you get the automatic posts about cancellation waived as this would make your account unusuable and would keep you from making any money under this name for yourself and for airbnb.


…

Shannon, you opened my eyes concerning those condo regulations, which I never understood. Effectively, co-owners hand over some rights by designing a management, but in Europe, as Nathalie pointed out, you can't do that to an extent where it limits your civil rights or human rights. European lawmakers believe n protecting people from their own stupidity, Americans and Australians believe in applying natural selection. (Even if they are creationists).

...

Maryam
As Olivier pointed out, there have been airbnb forums for several years, some dedicated to helping new hosts, worldwide or locally, others to different topics and there is the Anecdotes ans Stories forum, which is a stranger one than others. It was abandoned by its moderator a long time ago, so different hosts moderated it based on social pressure to good behaviour, but without any power to delete posts or throw out contradictory opinions. As it starts with A, it's the first in the list still presented in the app and every newbie who starts hosting with a phone, a place and not much else drops in there and asks questions. We post stories there and we answer the questions.

I was born and raised in a house full of guests, I worked for international companies in many countries and domains and we started renting our apartments 13 years ago when they were empty during our travels. That is a good way to finance a nomadic life style and for my peace of mind I found out only years later that it was in infraction of local laws – one of the sideeffects of moving from country to country : you have to learn the language first and pretty well, to be able to read cryptic rules which you never imagined that they even exist.;-)

The old groups have been declared dead twice so far as you can check in the announcements section of the community center. We got a delay of two months in the very last hours before execution this time. The new execution is planned for end of April. Evidently not everyone of the old guard likes it here, so there are many other forums now, none of them censored.

You find the old forums on the app or by going to your airbnb account on a computer. Then click on the address bar and delete everything that comes behind the dot com or dot local extension but leave the slash /. Then add groups/429 – 429 being the group number of the story forum. Or number 41, that's the New Host forum, with a more professionally helpful approach. NHF is there to help and sometimes laugh, S&A is there to laugh and then learn from it.


Robin, I'm sorry about what happened this time to you. Not that I caused it to happen but that the circonstances were set tot make it happen,  inevitably. That it fell on you and  Momi was just bad luck.

I believe you are rather a nice guy, a bit lonely and you found a forum here, in the sense of a public place where you can speak out and others will listen. Unfortunately, the more reasonable voices of the community left, first one by one and then in thrombes. You started to speak louder and louder and you found followers. Group dynamics kicked in, the censor helping and this board became a place where it's very easy to start snearing and get applause for it, where it's very easy to post a craintive post and be congratulated for fears and where posts can turn very paranoid and in my opinion creating a huge damage to the image of airbnb.
That was never the intent in creating a board nor a help desk.

In A&S we have also had a lot of new hosts who started posting with fearful questions. We answer reasonably, we motivate them, we find solutions for them, we make them laugh. We consider them, in Shannon's words, our fledglings. And we are very very proud and happy when they return as majestic swans and eagles and start helping others in their turn and tell us stories in their turn.

Robin, you had a long life, from what I gathered, it was full and you live in such an interesting part of the world. You love telling stories, in that sense we should understand each other. You would have much more success, if you just tell the stories and leave the conclusions to the readers. Tell what you did, for what rational reasons you did it and what was the outcome. It will have much more impact without the moral guidelines and people will praise you for it all by themselves.

Lizzie, you cannot carry water in a fist. I’ll post a statement on a non-public board later.

Besides, I found another bug: you can only hail the last five posters, then the function goes random. It was my intent to address everyone as in my experience it is more productive to address people personally and in clear words. That cannot be done here.

[Lizzie]

Hello everyone,

I wanted to come back to the points raised here about removal of text. This is something I don't take lightly and I don't like doing, but as I mentioned in my last post, personal attacks towards an individual are not permitted in the Community Center and if a response of this nature is posted then I have to remove it. 

It is likely that you will not always agree with the way or tone someone has responded to you or another member here in the CC, but I believe it is the way we respond which is the important part. If you are unhappy with something, consider if your response will improve the mood and remember you can flag it to me and I can take a look. 

-----

Helga, it is good to read you last post here; providing advice and possible options to Alexander. Thanks also for highlighting the name tagging function here, it does drive me crazy, but it is being looked in to - it is just a little trickier than it looks! 

Thanks,

Lizzie

[Maryam-Al-Fakheer0]

@Lizzie  I understand what you saying, but... I find your way of censoring selective. Some can post nasty unhelpful arrogant texts, and that is fine with you, but as soon someone comment on that, it get consored.....? 

[Jeet0]

Greetings!

I'm not sure whether attacking an employee of the company under the pretext of "Free Speech" is ignorance about the fact that freedom comes with responsibilities OR is one of the the worst forms of Cyber-bullying existing today. I think it's the latter. 

Abusing a person with a perspective different than yours on a public forum and gathering a support crowd from external groups is not Free Speech but bullying with the sole intension of breaking down the target. And if you are going to oppose this post too then you are most welcome but please be non-abusive, respectful and constructive in your expressions. Else, we definitely need a lesson here on valuing diversity of thoughts especially in a space that is created for the intention of learning from differences and varied experiences, bitter or sweet.

1) The refresher on CC guidelines wasn't irrelevant afterall.

2) Don't let a bunch of Hosts shut you up in a community made up of more than 3.5 lakh hosts and millions of travellers.

3) Let's actively flag inappropriate content and make CC a clean and safe forum, here's a How-to Guide on Reporting Inappropriate Content.

Good day 🙂

Jeet

[Helga0]

@Jeet0, I ignored you mostly and for good reason. 

@Lizzie is not an employee of airbnb. 

I did not gather a crowd. I told Shannon in a private mail, as a joke, that I'm engaged in a discussion here, as Shannon is coming to Europe to meet a few hosts from a few European countries. That is an example of the relationships we formed on the other groups. I lured her to Europe to meet a dozen friends found on an airbnb forum ;-))

The funny thing is, a good part of the people who intervened after your posting of the houserules of this forum so Helpfully, have clashed with me over a topic or other, maybe several times. Several of us know of each other well, we know that we have different or even very different approaches to hosting. I'd say that these clashes and discussions have led to mutual respect and learning from each other. Evidently, that result is much easier obtained, if there is a minimum level of understanding and the desire to speak, not shut discussions down by hitting the other over the head with a rulebook.

I was surprised to receive such support but I don't attribute it to me personally. People came in to make their own concerns known. This 

thread brought to light a growing  feeling of unease about censorship in a modern society, about the way fellow help seeking hosts  should be treated, about the conception of this forum culminiating in rules that all but forbid discussions and different opinions and exclude even the idea of several diverging solutions that could all be the right solution for someone. 

The discussion brought it into the light, it's up to airbnb to decide what kind of forum will be the most profitable in the long run. Free help by engaged hosts who have great fun together, coach each other, console each other and make friends or else decouraging everyone with a problem by throwing rulebooks around. A chance for the company, to have both solutions active side by side for 5 months now, so they can make a really profond study of it. 

Actually, I'm smiling reading your first paragraph that is visible whilst I write my answer: if you are not sure what it is, what you read and to what you make a statement, why do you make statements? 

Analysing your words it's quite clear that you are very emotive, maybe exclusively emotive, and I'm on the opposite end of the human spectrum. The very idea of bitter or sweet experiences is very funny to me, there is no chance that we ever talk to each other and profit from it. But have no fear, I'll not post on new threads of this center anymore. 

[Maxine0]

Wow - who knew one hosts request for help could end in such a dust up, censorship row & experienced hosts exiting the CC .

Robin.
Helga is well regarded for her balanced views & good sense advice put across in a way others can act upon without getting offended or feeling 'told off'.

Reading your story regarding the personal incidences that led to your approach to rule book advice explains a lot.
But you just need to find a more balanced way of presenting your views & advice. If you just thump people on the head or rap their knuckles with a heavy rule book - you'll get the reactions you have seen in this discussion

Helga did not court support at all. Another host posted a note in a Group saying has anyone seen the row going on ....... but only a couple of people popped in to take a peek - everybody else was already involved. There was no whipping up of a crowd, it formed organically & divided opinions. It also brought to a head the growing disquiet over ABB arbitrary censorship. And that became the bigger issue.

So whilst you might feel a bit bruised, remember you did wade in waving the rule book, that kicked it all off. So perhaps take a rest & think about how you can share your views & experience without whacking people with a big stick for misdemeanours.

Best regards, Maxine

[Robin4]

@Helga0.....Thanks Helga for your well balanced response.

This will be my last post on the CC as it appears you will always offend some no matter what! I have taken on board what others have said and by and large I agree with most….definitely not all.

I am certainly am not a lonely individual having a large circle of friends and acquaintances in my area. In fact my continual efforts on the CC of late have been something of an annoyance to my wife and others close, but I have found it somewhat addictive, like I guess many others do, and have spent many hours late into the night contributing.

Criticism is fine if there is a rational reason for it, but it is certainly not when it is based on a personality perception basis.

When I came onto the CC I first tried to bring humour into posts but was criticised for not keeping to the thread. I tried to answer questions from an experience point of view….After all, isn’t that what everyone is doing here, imparting experience….but I was criticised of self-congratulation and being sanctimonious.

If I was critical I was seen as deriving pleasure from others problems……really!

A month ago I took a conciliatory moderate stance when one of my now detractors criticised me for offering a fair-go, instead of demanding a ‘pound of flesh’!

We all make statements that reflect what has happened in our lives. I was critical of Alexander (maybe unfairly) because his problem reflected a massive issue in my life, possibly not one that is of any importance to others but, I will bring it up here because it will illustrate why I took the tack that I did….

My best friends Loui and Katrina arrived here from Greece as a newly married couple in 1965. They bought a block of land, cleared it, cleaned it up and put it back on the market and did the same thing again. They raised a couple of boys and, before they knew where they were, Loui and Katrina were millionaires a couple of times over. When the boys entered adulthood they both decided on an entrepreneurial lifestyle and bought a large run-down fitness centre. They asked Loui and Katrina to go guarantor for them which of course they did. Being somewhat stretched on finances the boys cut the odd corner or two to put on the best face. A fitness client sustained major injuries when a piece of equipment failed and the resultant hospitalization and legal proceedings meant that Loui and Katrina were forced to sell their home and everything they had to cover ever mounting costs, all because a comprehensive insurance regime had not been put in place! Three months after they were forced to hand over their house Loui died of a heart attack, and within 6 weeks Katrina died as well. All who knew her say she died of a broken heart.

It may have seemed ‘unimportant’ at the time, something you would eventually get around to….. but the consequences of that decision will remain with me, and a lot of others forever. I do not ever want to hear of someone else going through the pain that family and all around them went through. And I will shout it from the roof-tops….abide by the rules!!

Finally, I live in a small community and do my best to abide by the regulations that this community sets. I worked with and went to considerable effort to do the right thing in the situation that exists here. To be told I am ignorant and ill-informed because I didn’t read and get my information from a sodding government gazette is the major reason I am moving on…….cheers….Rob

[Helga0]

@Robin4, I did not answer immediately to your post as I wanted to think it over. You decided to share such a painful personal experience and gave us insights into your personal feelings and that deserved a calm answer. Besides, I had a very nice guest and we spent a few hours  together every  day, having dinner and even redecorating the guest room together. An Airbnb experience at its best, one of those that you yourself cherish in hosting too. Less time to hang out in a forum for a few days.

I thank you for telling the story of your friends. That makes it understandable that you wish to verify that the i’s are dotted and the t’s crossed. For me it illustrates however that there is no guarantee that a layman reading all the rules before creating a business can exclude that a catastrophe may happen. Your friends, having good business sense and the sense of hard work, were certainly not careless. Perhaps they even read all the papers they signed. Perhaps it was a single word or sentence that was a trap. I have seen that too, in international companies and huge deals. But less rule trusting people expect deception and have insurance and failsafes against even that. I don’t see Alexander's experience so different from the story you told: he trusted he had all the rules covered. 

I have seen that a few times, that good people dig their own graves, but never to the extent of your friends’ tragic outcome.

You conclude that the rules will safe you if you know them all and apply them all. My approach is that you will never be able to know all the rules and there will always be someone who finds a way to get a better interpretation against you. Therefore I do not judge how people arrived where they are, I see a situation, I guess or they tell me what they want and I find a way or two to make that happen as far as it can be made possible. 

Sometimes I counsel strategies I would not follow to the end, as that end is not that important to me as to the poster and I’m less courageous than some. Sometimes I counsel strategies that I would do and find easy and others tell me « Helga, you dream, I could never do that. » Ok, I have to scratch my head some more 😉

And often, in a forum, I’m one of the first to pick up a problem but I’m not the one finding the final workable solution for the poster. Everyone contributes and I learn from it as much as everyone else. With the advantage of an excellent memory, I seem so very much wiser the next time 😉

It was very interesting to read that the community center structure and the unpredictable application of rules do not benefit you either. I saw the last row, when you left for a while. An ironie of the sort, then you crashed into a lawyer who has a lawyer’s approach to rules too. You did not discuss rules then but that it got so hot so fast was also due to opposite perceptions of procedure.

I can understand that forum writing is addictive, it is too me as well. I discovered the Anecdotes forum with a funny cry for help and was on the hook 😉

I wanted to tell you not to give up forum writing. It takes all kinds to make a world and you are so dedicated and love writing, it would be a pity if you did not continue. 

However I would suggest for your own personal satisfaction that you find a forum where you can express yourself to full extent without being one day censored for this the other for that and the third day sent to start new topics for new thoughts. 

In a peer moderated forum, people find their tone, if you are too long, people tell you « I did not read to the end but the start was good » and you cut the next post shorter, if you are mean, people tell you so to your face and if you are nice or hilarious, people tell you so too. Wouldn’t you prefer that after all, to tell a funny story even if it was nothing important, just a funny exchange with a guest or a nice little experience, and to trigger laughter, other comments, a serious question treated in between and everyone has a good time? 

I would chat with you anytime everywhere else - as said above a little clash now and then can create respect if people can face each other and clear the air.

It will not be here as I decided not to participate in new threads anymore in the present set-up. 

@Maxine, thank you, but even if the church just restructures the procedure, you still have to wait that I'm dead to declare me a saint ;-)))

[Robin4]

@Helga0.......

Once again you carry yourself very well literally Helga. Your advice is of course sound but unfortunately not enough of you adhere to it! I keep on reading how much better this site was in the old days but, I was not here to experience the old days and I can’t comment on that. I do know that since I have been here I have offered 385 posts! In ten of those posts I have used as @Maxine0 says, a big stick….in the other 375 I have offered an olive branch but my mistake was to take to Ernest for the way he was going about contacting Lizzie. Ernest is one of the old brigade and one of the stalwarts of the forum. As soon as I made that post I realised my error and, once again tried to hand him an Olive branch, but the damage was done.

Helga, it is the pack mentality that has me to my knees where this site is concerned.

One seemingly long time contributor used in a short post a capitalisation in reference to a proud word that would have really upset our Hawaiian contributor. Not one of you chastised this contributor for her vulgarity….and if Lizzie hadn’t acted to remove that post I am sure it would have had 50 ‘likes’ by now!!!

I am on a few of forum sites around the world from product review to travel, and without exception we each give an opinion and move on. That opinion may be disagreed with by, once again, experience……ie ‘I had a great run with that lawnmower’ to which someone else will say ‘the wheels fell off on mine’….but we at no point get into the personal vilification that seems to be a hallmark of some of the contributors on this CC.

As lovely and accommodating as Lizzie is, she seems to have lost control of this site. There is, as you know, a set of forum rules which some seem to think don’t affect them and hurtful personal comments just seem to add fuel to the fire. Now I know every one of these people who are prepared to put a like behind one of these comments will say….’It’s like Facebook, if you like (or don’t like) something or someone, you tell em’!! But it’s not. This is not a site where the biggest post wins…..it’s here for us each to help each other, and sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind! Multi listing removals was an example….I offered a hard opinion, but not a personal character assassination. Apart from possibly the way I penned my comments to Ernest, on only one other occasion have I ever publically disagreed and corrected another host and that was to tell Clare that CBiZ are not an Australian insurer. And if anyone would care to seek that post out I disagreed with her in the nicest most complimentary way.

As I said I feel Lizzie needs to take control of this site, perhaps make an example of those who clearly breaks the forum rules and not just remove their remarks but remove them from the site, otherwise it’s just going to descend into nothing more than a bitchy girls club!

I wouldn’t make another post on this site Helga, I would be too afraid it would raise the ire of someone….and I do think that’s just not what life is all about…….Rob

[Maxine0]

@Maryam-Al-Fakheer0 - hi, A & S = Anecdotes & Stories

See you in there 🙂

[Regina38]

Hi Helga!

Great to see your thoughtful and informative response on here. I miss the old board. 

wishing you continued happy hosting!

Regina

[Robin4]

@Alexander15 @Momi0....Yes Alexander, I was hard on you....and I offer no apology for that.

It may well be that you are to some extent, a victim of circumstance, in that you may have been given the wrong advice by (your) landlord but, in reality Alexander, ignorance is no excuse! The first thing I would have done in your situation, knowing full well this property was encumbered by Condo regulations, was seek a letter of approval from the Condo committee to begin hosting. Alexander, that's not brain surgery!!

I made mention of liability issues, and I did that for good reason Alexander....What if one of your guests had discarded a cigarette butt into a dumpster between two Condos (or worse, two blocks of Condo's) setting each of them on fire! Who pays if the insurance has been cancelled due to a sub-letting agreement???

I will tell you why your situation annoys me......

I have a cottage in my rear garden, and when I decided I wanted to host, I invited a council inspector to pay me a visit. After studying the premises fully he gave me a certificate of occupancy which declared that the cottage was fit for habitation and complied with all aspects of the local building code. But that did not give me the right to list! I still had to apply for council approval and the inspector told me that would not be possible if I listed it as the self contained facility that it is. This area is classified as R1 residential, meaning, one residence per allotment.....no exceptions!! The only way I could get approval was to list as a 'private room', infering that it shares facilities with the main house and is regarded as part of it. This limits an enormous amount of my listing appeal because most guests would prefer a self contained accommodation rather than one where they may run into some stranger in the middle of the night on the way to the toilet!!

Alexander, I did my homework, I have involved the relevant authorities every step of the way in my short hosting career, I have got all relevant approvals and insurances......and I can sleep at night!

I am doing my best to bring out THE best in the Airbnb concept, and as I said in my previous post it annoys me beyond measure when other don't.

I don't like to see others go through unwarranted financial cost and I really do feel a touch of pain  at what will happen in your situation,. but Alexander, don't shoot the messenger, we did not dreate this problem for you! We are here to offer advice and to help each other.....this is not a cosy old closed shop, it is a community forum site and we each have to give advice, not just to the person whose post we are addressing, but to the rest of the community.

Alexander, I wish you luck and hope that next time you embark on this sort of thing you will prepare yourself a little bit better. Remember, every day teaches us something.....cheers......Rob

[Louise0]

Actually Robin, the information given to you by your local council inspector is most likely wrong.  Sadly, a not unusual occurence of late as councils all over the country are struggling to get their heads around the Airbnb concept.

Your local council is the District Council of Mount Barker, yes? Check the LEP and the prescribed and proscribed (if relevant) usages for residential zoning.

Firstly, regardless of where you reside in Australia, how you choose to describe your place on Airbnb is irrelevant under both state and local zoning laws and regulations.  If it's on the same title as your house, the fact that it's physically attached, or not, to that part of the dwelling in which you reside is irrelevant.  To take the inspector's reasoning to its logical and absurd conclusion, if you were to build an enclosed path between your backdoor and the granny flat entrance it would allegedly become compliant.

The inspector is likely to be confusing two issues  - (A) the separate rental of two discrete properties on the one title with (B) your current proposed activity - the listing of the granny flat on Airbnb while you continue to reside on the property.  The former (A) may or may not be permitted - depending on the DA and permitted usage applying to your granny flat.  The latter (B), as you are currently residing on that title, is generally a permissible usage.

BTW, I find the tone of your posts often inappropriate.  The information you dole out is frequently inaccurate and your 'advice' rarely helpful or supportive.  The overarching impression is of someone whose primary succour is schadenfreude.  Perhaps you're not even aware of it, but to many of us it would appear that you derive a great deal of pleasure in the suffering of others and seem to go to extraordinary lengths to boast of your own 'achievements' whilst belittling others.  Is this really necessary?  If you need to do this for your own well-being, perhaps you can find a less hurtful and hateful outlet?  

[Helga0]

@Jessa0, @Louise0, thank you. 

I don't even know how I picked that fight but for the reason Louise mentioned, the general feeling of Schadenfreude instead of a wish to help. And the original poster certainly needed help.

@Lizzie you may well censor out the names, but people get the mails in full lenght.

[Dave-and-Deb0]

https://youtu.be/Pizvdm_DbFY

I know this has nothing to do with the topic but, I would just like to say, I am so glad to see 3 of my favourite people over here.  

Welcome @Helga0, @Jessa0 and @Louise0!

Now you can return to the regularly scheduled broadcast!

Dave