For those who say they wouldn't book a rental with security cameras

[Marcus237]

I'm curious to know from people who say they wouldn't rent at a property with security cameras in the common areas (kitchens/living rooms), do you normally book an entire house?

And if you do, would you find cameras in these places to be more reasonable if someone had a 6 bedroom mansion with several full bathrooms, a jacuzzi, and multiple living rooms, where they rented out each of 5 bedrooms separately, and they themselves stayed in the 6th?

I feel like cameras in the common areas in this case provides security, safety, and accountability not only for the homeowner, but also for the other guests who are staying on a property with strangers that they don't know.

I'm considering putting my place on airbnb to do just that, but I don't want to alienate customers. That said, the price to rent the entire property would likely be prohibitive to most people, so I think I'd have more success renting individual private luxury rooms with access to beautiful, high end common areas. But in doing so, having multiple groups of strangers staying in a single place, I'd think having security cameras to provide accountability would be of the utmost importance. Otherwise, if people break things in the common areas or even steal another guest's property, you'd have no idea who would be accountable for it, and guests may even attempt to hold the host responsible.

What are your thoughts, hosts and guests?

[Marcus237]

@Ute42  So, here's the thing about putting stipulations into a TOS: They have to be able to defend those stipulations. Even if their TOS says they can remove a listing at any time for no reason at all, if someone claims they're being discriminated against unfairly, Airbnb is going to have to defend their reasoning, and then that reasoning will be compared to the ACTUAL TOS. So if the host followed the TOS, then that would lend credit to the idea that they were discriminating. Airbnb, being a company that serves the public, is not allowed to discriminate, and so they are subject to scrutiny in any case where such a thing could be plausible. Not following your own contract/TOS is a big red flag in regard to discrimination.

That said, when it comes to writing a TOS, virtually everyone puts that rule in there. It's the same with contracts. Quite often, contracts are written with unenforceable sections in them that will get thrown out any time said contract goes to court. But having the language in the contract to begin with is enough to dissuade 99% of the potential lawsuits that might arise from that particular issue, because people don't often know that companies quite frequently put unenforceable clauses in their contracts. It also might be enforceable in Wisconsin, but unenforceable in Ohio. The laws vary by state.

This is only applicable to companies operating or based in the US, as I'm not familiar with all the contract laws of other countries(or even every state). Furthermore, nothing I say here should be construed as legal advice. If someone needs legal advice, they should consult an attorney.

[Ute42]

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@Marcus237 

I know nothing of course about US law, but we have similar regulations in Germany. There is a law by the name of:

• Gesetz zur Regelung des Rechts der Allgemeinen Geschäftsbedingungen

Allgemeine Geschäftsbedingungen = AGB = TOS

This law says, that a lot of the language companies put into their TOS are just „unwirksam“ = void. Best example: If a cardealer sells a (used) car to a privat consumer, this dealer has to provide a 1 year warranty. It doesn't help the dealer to exclude the warranty in the contract and it doesn't help the dealer if the consumer agrees in writing – that's all void.

Back to the cameras: There is a lot of jurisdiction about cameras in our country and people are fighting in front of court all the time. You really have to be careful with this issue.

[LaToya16]

I have a camera on the front porch, back porch and in the kitchen. The kitchen camera will show me the entrance to the front, back and garage door. It's a common area and I think it's useful for safety, theft and to assure the amount of guest stated in the book actually stay there. I don't check the cameras until they leave. So far I've had 4 bookings knowing the camera was there and they didn't have a problem with it. 

[Danielle476]

Hands down, I would never rent a room or home that had security cameras listed on the property (other than outdoors.)  While I don't mind being on security footage in a large international chain hotel, knowing I was being watched and/or recorded by an individual with no oversight would make me extremely self-conscious and uncomfortable.  Respectfully, it would be a hard pass for me.

[Ken454]

Stop trying to get every guest out there. Some you don't want. I have cameras about the premises and a few in the common areas like the laundry TV living rooms. If they are honest they will not have problems with cameras. I caught a lady doing multiple massive loads of laundry for I don't know who. When you are only charging a few bucks for a room, that is huge. I also caught a guest steeling. I did post signage and notice in my listing

Also set your prices a bit higher than your local competitor. It tends to get a better crowd. Ignore the suggested pricing Air posts. It is not real. Also automatic pricing is BS too. At what point does it adjust your listed price. And by how much does it raise or lower your listed price? I set the weekends higher.

Good pictures helps get better clients too. To do whole home and single room together, make two listings. Then coordinate your calender's.

Hope this helps everyone hosting...

[Sarah977]

@Ken454  I hear this a lot from hosts, or people in general who like and want cameras- "If they are honest they will not have problems with cameras." That is simply not true at all. I can assure you I'm honest and I would not stay in a place where there was a camera on me when I was sitting watching TV or doing the laundry and there are many honest people who feel exactly the same way. It's an invasion of privacy. I realize you don't want guests who have an issue with indoor cameras, but your basic premise has no basis in fact.

[Ken454]

Have you ever gone to a laundromat that didn't have cameras? Hotels, Motels, Banks, Stores, Busses, Highways, Intersections, Restaurants, now schools ... HELLO!! I guess you stay at home with your head in the ground to avoid your invasion of privacy 

What if I sat there and watched you doing laundry? Is that invasion of privacy? The cameras are used when an unusual event occurs. It is used for documentation only. Most often erased from the DVR.

I don't need the few of you who feel it is an invasion of privacy when done in common public areas.

It is surprising the number of videos I do forensics on that tell a true story not told by the suspects. One day you will appreciate the party store surveillance cameras catching clear photos of the thug that hit you in the head and took your money. Or the gas station cameras capturing your auto accident where it is not your fault, but you got blamed for it (and ticketed).

[Sarah977]

@Ken454  Your response has nothing to do with my post. What I said was that assuming that the only people who would object to cameras are those who are dishonest is totally false.

And cameras in public places are completely different than cameras in private homes.

[Danielle476]

Slightly alarmist, and nobody's getting tickets on private property, FYI.  I'm not sitting on a couch and watching TV curled up with my husband at a bank.  I'm not walking around the bus in my underwear.  If you're comfortable being monitored during what most people use as a relaxing vacation away, that's your prerogative.  The rest of us don't need to be recorded doing mundane things, having that video be stored and distributed to god knows who.  I would never stay anywhere with cameras inside the home, and any host who does use them should be aware that it's 100% affecting who chooses to stay there.

[Robin4]

@Sarah977  @Ken454 @Danielle476 @Helen3 @Ute42

This is an old thread now and the original point has got somewhat lost.

Whatever your opinion is on surveillance equipment, a lot of effort by a considerable number of contributors went into this thread.....and it was all pointless! 

@Marcus237 did not come here for advice! He came here for validation of his proposed strategy, and when he didn't get that validation he chose to fight the answers. Marcus kept saying he 'wanted to make a point' !

That is why I didn't get involved with it.

Here as much as anywhere else, you have to choose which battles to fight....and this one was never going to be one that warranted the effort. 

Cheers......Rob

[Juan63]

If it's a room rental, it's totally reasonable to have cameras in common areas. I think it's crazy and possibly illegal to have camera's inside a whole house rental. And this is from someone who loves and uses all the high tech security gadgets. Common areas are private areas when you rent an entire house.

[Helen3]

It maybe reasonable for some hosts to want to have camera's in common area in shared homes, but the reality is it will put many guests off staying with you @Juan63 

It is not illegal to have camera's in whole house rentals.

Worth you wondering over to the Help Centre and reading up on Airbnb's policies on use of camera's.

[Juan63]

It is illegal Helen, you don't know what you are talking about. Recording in an area where there is perceived privacy in the USA is illegal. It varies from state to state as it's strictness. For instance in California, you can not record a person speaking unless they know they are being recorded. So you are wrong. FYI my occupancy is in the high 90's so it has had very little impact on my shared home listing.