Guest failed to mention advanced pregnancy and upcoming birth - whilst in our property

Answered!
Nicole327
Level 1
Kilmichael, Ireland

Guest failed to mention advanced pregnancy and upcoming birth - whilst in our property

Hi All,

 

This is my first time using this forum, but I'm rather desperate and need some advice... We are fairly experienced hosts but now face an unexpected challenge:

 

Yesterday, we were expecting a couple who are booked to stay with us for a month. We had no specific info from them as regarded the purpose of their stay but, based on positive reviews and normal booking-related conversation, had accepted them. On their arrival we were completely overwhelmed by the fact that the lady was 38 weeks pregnant and had chosen our property with the idea of being closer to the maternity hospital.

 

Not only are we not particularly close to the hospital, we are in no way prepared for any medical emergencies on that level, nor trained to aid in a potential home birth! I was gobsmacked to say the least that somebody would knowingly put us and, after all, themselves in such a situation. Of course we are always happy to help and are listed a family friendly but not in the sense that we feel comfortable taking on such a huge responsibility, without ever being asked in the first place. The guests came equipped with baby things and today even had a midwife visiting them in our listing. This indicates that, from their perspective, all is planned but without ever consulting us or asking our permission!

 

Now my question is how do I deal with the guests? This feels weirdly like an unrehearsed Nativity play in which I have, for obvious reasons, no interest in taking part. The guests have not given us any information or clues as to their background story (as in WHY would you want to do this?) since their arrival yesterday and seemed completely oblivious to any issue when I tried to talk to them today after the midwife's visit. 

 

Anybody got any ideas how to proceed? Thanks a million in advance, 

 

Nicole

1 Best Answer
Linda108
Level 10
La Quinta, CA

Apparently this discussion thread has morphed from the original issue of what a host should do when a guest is using the space without proper disclosure to guest rights.  Interesting.  @Marit-Anne0 has been very clear and @Kenneth12 has given us all an alternative perspective.  I am inspired by this discussion because it is at the heart of our shared home industry.  We are not hotels with inpersonal amenities.  We are very personal.  We may even be in the space.  Regardless, we are more  dependent on accurate specific information than the generic hotel/motel experience.  If guests cannot or do not want to participate in that process, hosts have the right to cancel.  These hosts do not have to be subjected to judgement, but should be supported as good hosts.  @Helen3@Monika64

@Marit-Anne0 seem to speak to this.  Thank you.

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61 Replies 61
David126
Level 10
Como, CO

I looked on your profile and see that this a cottage you list and you live nearby.

 

So I am wondering why this is a particular issue, I can see it could be if you were home sharing.

David
Linda108
Level 10
La Quinta, CA

@Nicole327  You started a firestorm of response!  So what is the update?  @Geri-and-Osiris0 is passionate about the value of home births and the lack of host responsibility.  @Monika64@Monica4 are concerned about the truthfulness of the guests.  Both points are valid but as this is a host forum, I think the rights of the host to know what are the guest plans for the use of their property is the appropriate.  In this community we strive to be non-discriminatory based on race, age, ethnicity, etc, but we can discriminate based on property use.  If a guest want to use a listing for a film shooting, for illegal activity (birthing is not illegal of course), or to hold a Neo Nazi meeting, I think I have the right to say no.  

 

The issue is the lack of transparency about the use of the listing.  I hope @Nicole327 is successful in either becoming comfortable with this turn of events or is able to have Air BNB relocate the guests.  I don't think guest should be allowed to be untruthful about the USE of their property.  

@Linda108 @Geri-and-Osiris0 @Monika64 @Monica4 

Dear All, thank you so so much for your thoughtful advice, opinions and time to help me in this matter! I'll clue you in on the current state of things but let me say sohing else first, I feel this needs to be clarified: I am not against home birth and I am not planning on leaving people out in the streets. I am simply shocked by the way this drama has unfolded, can not understand the dishonedty involved and am always worried or concerned as far as the heakth and wellbeing of my guests is concerned. I love children, we have two ourselves and we are, I believe is fair to say, sensible people who are happy to help when we can. This situation goes beyond what we can potentially deal with though. I tried to talk to my guest this morning in a polite way. However, I was met with hostility and the door was closed in my face! Wat could be established was that the guest admitted to planning a homebirth in our property! I have since contacted both the local midwife and Airbnb to ask for help in the matter. At this stage it seems best the guests are relocated. I still can't believe this is happening and how my guests vould act that way. This is a violation of trust and why anybody would want to start of a new child's life in such an underhand way is beyond me. See, the guests did not even try to talk to me about it, not before and not even now. As if I have no right to make infotmed decisions in my own home. To make matters worse, the pregnant lafy had just come down now to insult me in the most vulgar and appalling way, her own partner has apologised but now they are sbout to leave just like that!? Airbnb will of course sort the formalities, the lady st the helpdesk assured me, but I fo not know if I can ever trust people again after this... Sorry for the long, emotional, unstructured post... I really feel terrible sbout all this...

PS: Also sorry about the typos, am not using the desktop version right now and long typing on a mobile device is awkward...

@Nicole327  I am so sorry this guest experience has shaken you.  You have a lovely home and are a well-like host.  I don't pretend to understand the motives of the guest given my remote view of the situation.  However, your experience is cautionary for all hosts to take whatever steps are needed to be clear how their listing is perceived by the potential guest and the guest use plans.  When you have time to digest and reflect on this experience, perhaps you will be able to share with the host community any useful insights and suggestions.  Take care of yourself.

Helen3
Level 10
Bristol, United Kingdom

Hello @Nicole327

 

Thanks for updating us.

 

Please don't feel bad, like many of us who posted you are a parent and understand how wonderful it is to welcome a new child into the world.

 

I don't think any of us who posted are against home birth. It is more about the dishonesty of the guests.

 

With such an important occasion it is unbelievable that they won't have mentioned the purpose of their trip. I don't agree that as hosts we don't have the right to ask guests about the purpose of their trip.

 

I understand how shaken you must be, particularly with having one of your guests act so rudely towards you and slam the door of your own home in your face.

 

Hopefully they will be leaving soon and Airbnb will help them relocate to something more suitable for their needs.

 

I still don't understand why anyone wanting a homebirth, wouldn't want to give birth in their own home or if this was not suitable that of close family or friends.

 

As you say your place is quite away from Cork City and you would imagine they would want to be much closer to a hospital with maternity services in case anything should go wrong.

 

Good luck

 

Helen

@Nicole327 I'm so sorry about the stress you have to go trough (not to mention the verbal insults). I'm sure the couple is under pressure as well but still it'd probably be the best if Airbnb can relocate them as this tension isn't good for anyone.

I hope it'll all be sorted out soon!

 

I also just wanted to mention I bumped into an article last night about homebirths in Airbnb homes in Australia. People do pay a lot of money for this option (which is supossedly very much regulated by the goverment, for example I believe they require 2 midwifes to be present) but NOWHERE in the article was mentioned that the host would not know about this. I understand maybe not everyone has homes, families in towns where the homebirth safely can be done close to a hospital but I think if anyone opts for an Airbnb place for this honesty is must, as @Branka-and-Silvia0 said not being up front about one's plans is just a bad start to everything.

Lilian20
Level 10
Argelès-sur-Mer, France

Thanks a lot for this post ! 

Branka-and-Silvia0
Level 10
Zagreb, Croatia

@Nicole327

what starts bad - ends worse. They were dishonest from the begining and I am not surprised they acted so badly afterwards. I learned in my life few things: 1. - to always trust my instincts  and 2. - to set my tolerance border low. 

I hope they will be relocated before the birth, please let us know how it ended and what ABB rep told you.

Thank you for this post . 

Dear All,

Many many thanks again to all who sent their support and helped me get through this without feeling like a complete idiot. Well, to update all who asked: the guests left today around lunchtime. Not before the pregnant lady in question threw many more insults, threats and abuse my way that I dare not to repeat and would rather forget. It was appalling, to say the least. Her partner, in fairness, tried to be apologetic and act reasonable but with her screaming and shouting next to him it was like a scene from a cheap telenovela. Suffice it to say, I was glad they left.

Here's how it all came about: in the morning, I first contacted the local midwife to check if she knew anything about the dubious circumstances. It transpired, although of course she had to protect her client's privacy, that she had no idea of the circumstances which is all that I needed to hear from her, in any case. I went straight up to the cottage to talk this over, see if I could finally get some sort of civilised conversation, true background story or anything really that would help me to deal with the situation in an informed way. I got verbal abuse, the door was slammed in my face. A few minutes later I got a phone call from the pregnant lady with more abuse before she hung up on me. Then I simply rang the Airbnb help desk and explained my predicament. I was truly lucky to deal with an extremely helpful, friendly, professional lady who took it from there and dealt with the formalities. I suggested that the guests had better be gone since the situation seemed beyond repair and that I was more than willing to refund any money for the outstanding time (honestly, I would not want a single cent from such people; the money was never an issue here for me). The only thing I asked was that the pregnant guest would not be allowed to comment or review me in her abusive way. Airbnb than stipulated that I would be paid for the three days the guests had stayed already (today had to be counted since they were still around at noon) and that they had no right to review me in any way. Airbnb dealt with all this straight away, tried to also get in touch with my guest (who refused to talk to them at that stage) and really sorted everything out. My calender was directly free again, I had nothing left to do other than oversee the guests' departure. The pregnant lady's partner tried to take leave in an amicable way (slightly undermined by his screaming lady who was abusing the two of us at that point) and assured me he himself knew nothing (!!!) of the situation since he did not know that I was not informed about the pregnancy, home birth etc! It is hard to believe this on top of everything else but I was weary to say anymore. Well, and then they went away.

Now, as for anything that happened to the guests afterwards, I can't say... Airbnb let me believe their money will be refunded so that seems certain. If they were offered any other accommodation/relocation and/or under what circumstances, I do not know. I also don't know if they were penalised (or generally blocked somehow if that exists?) in any way. I am not even sure I want to know, I am only glad that this is over. Fingers crossed this is the last I'll ever hear of this... Some have asked what I'll do now to prevent further scenarios like this or how to communicate with potential guests in the future and, quite frankly, I hardly dare think about it. I mean, how could I put "not suitable for home birth" in my house rules or guest manual without coming across like a complete lunatic for anybody unfamiliar with today's events?! It's almost funny (almost...) to have to spell out something so outrageously obvious and outlandish in nature as to "please ask before you give birth, get married or undergo any other potentially life-changing procedures on my property", is it not? I always thought that being open, direct, honest and available for my guests before, during and after their stays was the way to deal with things but now I am not so sure this is good enough anymore. Common sense got a lot less "common", if you get my meaning... It'll take me a while to digest the experience and make sense of it all. If any of you have ideas or suggestions on how or if to include something like that in their property communications, please share!

Other than that, I can't thank you all enough for your kind words. I do not wish that dubious couple ill, but I hope that wherever their journey takes them, nobody has to go through anything like this anymore. No host should have to be in that position and no guest should put their own (mental?) health or that of an unborn baby at risk. I don't see the benefit for anyone and I hope they see fit to sort themselves out in an appropriate way. As for Airbnb, I was so relieved to find prompt help and understanding, which at least confirmed my believe in Airbnb as a suitable platform for renting out my property. If they read this, thank you!

So, this is where my adventure ends for today and I can't say it often enough: my sincere thanks to all of you! Such a positive spirit that it made the rest bearable. The best of luck to all and cheers from County Cork!

.

Kenneth12
Level 10
Chicago, IL

I hope this goes well and I understand your concerns,  but if this were the US,   your posting itself would open you to litigation.

A preganant couple has the right to book lodging.  And they have a right to not be discriminated against in regards to medical condition,  as well as not to disclose that condition.   Period.  

I suspect Ireland is similar in this regard,  and encourage you to give yourself a kick in the behind,  and deal with it-- perhaps help.   Personally I'd be delighted!

@Kenneth12

That would be correct if they only were seeking accomodation for recreational or business purposes or any other "normal" circumstances for needing temporary accomodation.  

I believe a host has every right to know for what purpose the property is being used.  Personally I cancel if I suspect the guest is a sex worker on a business trip (yes, it is a real issue in my area).

Booking with airbnb we are encouraged to disclose the purpose for our visit and we are continuously fed with the "honesty and transparancy" line.  These guests chose not to reveal their purpose for visiting fully knowing that they might be declined if they did. 

You're seriously comparing a pregnant woman with a sex worker???

The abuse (if not prompted by the host's behavior) is one thing.  

Do I have a right to cancel the reservation of a guest staying with me at my properties near the University of Chicago Medical Center,  because they didn't reveal they were coming for AIDS treatment?

Certainly not,  and the suggestion in the OP,  is absolutely contrary to AirBnB's committments to tolerance and inclusivity.

 @Kenneth12,  Marit was not "comparing" sex workers to pregnant women any more than you were comparing AIDS patients to pregnant women when you asked about that. She merely was giving an example of something that happens on occasion in her area which she would not allow. And, while there might be a lawsuit if it were in the U.S., that would be because we've got a lot of lawyers and a lot of people who look for any way possible to make a lot of money with the least amount of effort, and litigation is one of those attempts.  

We're not talking about denying someone because she is pregnant; we're talking about denying someone a medical procedure in our homes without permission.  These are private homes we're talking about here, and our homes are not medical facilities. 

So, as with the AIDS patient,  treatment at the hospital is no problem. 

If the person is doing ANY medical treatments, surgeries, procedures, etc, in someone's home (Instead of in a medical facility) without that person's knowledge, that IS a problem, regardless of whether it's for an illness or something chosen and beautiful like childbirth.