Had a guest who accepted the rules, booked and disputed the rule and Airbnb sided with guest

[Lucas18]

Had a bad guest plain and simple.  The guest in particular accepted the rules. One of the rules was to pay the cleaning fee and the amount was disclosed at the time when he was booking. He accepted.

The guest asked for a discount which I accepted provided certain conditions were met. Well they were not met.  The guest opened a dispute and mentioned that the price was unreasonable. Airbnb did not ask any kind of prove mind you from me our the guest, but one of the arguments he used was the unreasonable charges. I repeat prior to accept the booking he read the rules and all fees were listed.

At the End AirBnb sided with the guest and explained to me the the price was unreasonable.

These are the problems that I and the owner have:

1)  The Guest accepted the terms and conditions, thus he is liable for those.

2) Since when Airbnb can overturn the terms and conditions ? Aibnb response was at best absurd. They stated the price charged was too much. Well, the Guest had the option to book with someone else. Airbnb allowed the Guest to breach the terms and conditions one of the trusting pillars between hosts and guests because it guarantees that we can enforce if needed.

What are the best options going forward ? We are thinking:

1)  Did anyone sue Airbnb ? Can you share your experience ?

2) The guest left a bad review. I think Airbnb should NOT allow people who entered into a bad dispute to leave a review. I did not leave a review. However, Airbnb has no clear guidelines about this.

3)  I unlisted the property and I have one property listed still with airbnb that I am planning to unlist as well. The price charged by Airbnb from hosts and guests are too much and airbnb expects somehow us to milk our prices. We are planning to move to another platform and we would appreciate recommendations specially knowing that Airbnb will not uphold the terms and conditions in a dispute review.

Thanks,

[Clare0]

@Cormac0 Yes, but when you agree to Airbnb's terms you are entering an agreement when you host.  You don't have to accept Airbnb's terms if you don't want to and you don't have to use their platform.   Outside of Airbnb I'm sure you are correct, but by accepting Airbnb's Terms of Service you are accepting that agreement. Have your lawyers check it out.  I'm sure Ebay, Amazon and the like have similar Terms of Service for providing a service on their sites. I rest my case.  🙂

[Cormac0]

I am always surprised, particularly when a Host runs to the defence of a system that seriously curtails the wrights of a Host to the protection of their property.

I'm also surprised Claire that you did not mention what is laughable called the Host guarantee,

"The Host Guarantee Program doesn't cover cash and securities, collectibles, rare artwork, jewellery, pets or personal liability. We recommend that hosts secure or remove valuables when renting their place. The program also doesn't cover loss or damage to property due to wear and tear.

The Host Guarantee Program isn't insurance and doesn't replace your homeowners or renter's insurance. Make sure you review and understand the terms of your insurance policy and what it covers and doesn't cover. Not all insurance will cover damage or loss to property caused by a guest renting your space. Filing a host guarantee request doesn't preclude a guest from financial responsibility for the damages claimed if Airbnb determines a guest was at fault."

After reading the above its hard to fathom what exactly the Host Guarantee covers?

If people with a head on their shoulder leave the platform due to its many Host protection shortcoming how's that supposed to make it better?

These Host forum's where set up to discuss issues and not brush them under the carpet no matter how unpalatable they are...

[Dave-and-Deb0]

Hi @Lucas,

I am not sure why I am replying to this post but it just seemed like something was fishy and of course we only have one side of the story.

I am shocked and disgusted at your response in which you gave this guest which is very vindictive.  No wonder the owners decided not to list with you anymore.  Your response to this guest has pretty well ruined your own listing so you might as well unlist your other listing as you already plan.  Some of your response I cannot even post on here because your comments are so offensive.  They are actually so offensive and inappropriate, I have reported your profile.

It is quite apparent that you do not like Ukrainians and are discriminatory.  You say,  “It amazes us how people from Ukraine can be so deceitful” and “We learned from this experience not to trust people around Ivan's age and country because the cleaning fee is peanuts for us Americans.”  Once again, WOW!

I am wondering if what this guest said in his review was true.  I am wondering if the reason Airbnb refunded this person money is because he probably had pictures to back up his story.  Do you have pictures to show the disgusting things you accuse the guest of leaving in the listing which again, I cannot print here?  Please share by sending me a direct message.  I am willing to bet I do not receive them.  

I am not that trusting of you @Lucas.  Why?  This guest in his review mentioned that you, Rahul and Maria are running this business for a nice couple.  You also state,”Please read the other reviews don't base your opinion solely on this one.”  Yes, @Lucas, I did look at your reviews and that is why I DO NOT TRUST the picture you are painting of this guest.  When I look at your reviews, I see three in total.  One from this guest, one from a guest named Bethany and one from your most recent guest by the name of RAHUL!  Hmmmm?  Is this the same Rahul that helps you manage with Maria?  I think so!  Why do I think that?  Well, I read your review of Rahul which is not really a review but more complaining about Airbnb.  Who writes in a review about a guest, “As a manager, I find constantly difficult to deal with Airbnb guests as they simply don't follow the rules. Most accept the rules, some challenge the rules after the fact and Airbnb sides with them causing losses and hassle to owners”?  Funny enough, Rahul writes in his review about you, “Lucas mentioned that he may not use Airbnb for two reasons: 1) Airbnb charges too much money from hosts and guests which made me really pissed when I saw how much he made and how much I paid 2) Given the recent issues that he had with Airbnb about a specific guest where rules were accepted by the guest and then overturned by airbnb in a dispute made him very skeptical about Airbnb policies. I think it is important other hosts and guests read this for their own good.”  Now why would a guest write that about a host?  I am curious to know how much Rahul paid and did you charge the cleaning fee?  

I am also not very trusting of you because you do not use your own profile picture.  You state, “The picture in my profile belongs to a Celebrity that I admire who is also called Lucas. I speak Portuguese/ English. All I am writing in this profile has been disclosed to Airbnb”  Why not use your own picture instead of the actor Lucas Neff?  I actually contacted the real Lucas Neff and he said, “who is this person? No I would prefer not having that up. But I'm not a member. How would I get it down?”  I have never really talked to a real live celebrity before.  It looks like he has now taken to Twitter as he does not like someone impersonating him.

I think  @Gerry And Rashid were right; something bizarre is happening here but it seems more to do with the host.

I am just thankful that it is your account that is damaged by your response to this guest and not “the nice couple’s” account who hired you.  I am not shocked after reading your response that they took the listing away from you.

Now that I got that out of the way, if you think the fees are too high, yes, go somewhere else.  Most other sites are around 15% just like Airbnb (actually Airbnb is 9-15%).  I actually like hosting on Airbnb because I only pay 3% and the guest pays the remaining 6-12%.  With most other sites, the guest pays no fee and the host pays 15%.

So, I see you already know how to unlist or delete a property but if you need to know how to delete your account, here are the instructions: https://community.airbnb.com/t5/General-Hosting/Delete-Your-Airbnb-Account-A-Community-Help-Guide/m-...

I am with @Clare.  Let me know how the lawsuit goes!  I only wish I knew how to get in touch with the guest because he may have a cause against you.

For others who are reading this, please take the time to read what @Lucas wrote in response to the guest's review.  Would you rent from him?

Happy hosting @Lucas

[David126]

I thought the same thing, the bogus review gave it away.

Also the pricing makes no sense and a photo not of you but somebody you admire with the same name?

I would be fascinated to know the real deal, but I know that will never be.

Suing a Ukranian in the Ukraine court for $150? Really?

I do not charge a cleaning fee so not sure how that works, I assumed it was a fixed fee not negotiable, like the room rate.

[Nadav2]

Hello everyone,
My name is Nadav Abramov and I want to tell you a humiliating story about me and my 6 friends.
From 7-11.6 we went to celebrate a bachelor party in Berlin. We are 7 men from Israel, because we wanted privacy. We decided to take an apartment through the airbnb in my sorrow only after we discovered that it was illegal in Germany.
Anyway we decided to go for an apartment because we wanted privacy and we wanted to celebrate a little.
In the photos we see a two-story villa and in retrospect it is only upstairs. In addition, the owner insisted that some of the money be in cash. I assume that because of tax matters, she prefers black money.
We arrived at the apartment on Marga de Vries
Altenescher Weg 27
10407 Berlin / Prenzlauerberg.
When we arrived we saw that the neighborhood was very exclusive and then we discovered from the cab driver that he said the neighborhood was not sympathetic to strangers and was surprised that we were staying there because it is east side.
Any way we got there and Marga daughter welcome us, she was nice told us you can do your party was nice, she told us we could celebrate. I asked her because the Middle Eastern mentality is different if it's okay to make some noise and she's all good was smiling and explained that her parents went for two weeks and walked away.
From the day the nightmare began, Marga's son came into the picture and decided that he had come to make us a surprise visitor. He had already arrived at 7 AM when everyone was asleep and when I woke up I saw messages that wanted to kick us out because we drank a little that evening and celebrated as Marge told us.
I told Marga that from now on I would make sure everything was to her satisfaction and indeed it was.
On the third day we went for a walk and since it was a very hot morning and there was no air conditioner in the apartment I opened the windows in the rooms that will have air! Because of an open window to kick us out??? What a joke is it to kick 7 guys in a foreign country to the street????When we got to the apartment we tried to talk to him but after half an hour of persuasion I saw that he really enjoyed it, really! Stood with a smile on his face ... I decided to tell him that I think that if we were from Sweden or Denmark it would not happen and then at the height of his stupidity he told me, yes I am a Nazi !!! And I do not care about you at all !!!!! We asked him to call the police and instead he called the criminals to come to threaten us and one of them even wanted to take our action from us to a "walk" in the car. In addition, the entire neighborhood came to see us humiliated and even enjoyed it. We asked him why he is a fan because 7 men like us can not be in such an area !!!!!!! I filmed Marga's son and my friends and I decided that we would not be silent about this humiliation. I hope that your news system can help us reach Fillip de vreis. I can distribute his video saying he is a Nazi everywhere.

[Amy38]

Send this video to the ceo of Airbnband request a refund....if that doesnt work, post the video on the Abnb facebook and Tweet the issue.  This is aterrible  tale but one all Jews are familiar with. 

 This is a terrible story.

Best  Luck,

aj

[Trina12]

I have an issue - so far it is not with Airbnb (I’ll be able to tell you if that sticks after the resolve the final portion). My issue is with the guest and her breach of contract - She cane to stay for 7 nights (while she was getting settled, I let her know she could meet my dog Duke later after she was settled because he gets excited - she insisted on meeting him, only sharing this to say she was a dog lover is what she said). I was called into work I let her know, and my family was home when I left. On my break at work (I don’t keep a phone on me) I saw I had messages and it was my guest - she said Duke was a great guard dog but he wasn’t letting her inside and the next message said it wouldn’t work and she canceled and would like to get her things. I calle her promptly from hearing the messages and let her know my daughter would be on her way and that I was sorry. The hall light wasn’t on and Duke couldn’t see her and yes he was guarding yet she didn’t feel comfortable with me letting her know calling him and entering let’s him remember he smelled her and she’s staying. My daughter let her in and Duke was barking before they came in, saw her and played. I refunded all payment, I wanted her to know she had my deepest apologies. Needless to say she left with my keys - putting my next guest out  initially and she never contacted me to tell me she took my keys. I first thought my daughter had them and I gave my new guest my keys (it was a short notice reservation due to the cancellation opening up the dates). Once my daughter told me she did not have the keys I contacted the guests she writes me the next day (day two without the keys) and says yes she has them and will mail them back and provide the tracking number. She than send my keys to my house by way of a friend that has never been to my house, her friend is rude to my current guest and gives my guest a box with my keys to my entire home and the room).

1. It is disclosed that there is a $25 fee for key replacement - that’s each key

2. All locks to my home had to be changed out, the package was not even sealed - to ensure no one would be able to duplicate the keys.

Airbnb refunded me for the locks - I provided a receipt and I didn’t charge anything extra for putting them on and etc.

Yet I definitely want to pursue the guest for taking this for granted and violated the safety of my and my family by disregarding our privacy and safety to simply hand our keys over to someone unknown to us and provide our address to them while she was new to Redding and within the day of canceling she moved to Anderson - I do not know how long she knew them or anything, very upsetting and disturbing.

Does anyone know if we are able to pursue actions against the guest?

[Linda1325]

Have you continued to claim from AirBnB ? I want to sue them now.

[Olivia-and-Olivier0]

I agree and understand your pain, had a similar situation with a dihonest guest who walks through life with a baseball glove, and just takes and takes anything they can ripoff from others. Karma does work, but in the mean-time, it seems that Airbnb is at least indifferent, sending a message like "this issue is now considered closed" ... with no resolution. If you find the solution or there is an outcome, please do keep us posted. Best of luck, most people are nice, 95% I can say were wonderful guests, so don't get discouraged! When life throws you lemons, make tequila! 😉

[Michelle627]

It's the new guest scam they claim the place is dirty, take pics of areas not in the listing and Airbnb rules in their favor,

live had three guests in a row now all with different issues and Airbnb ruled in their favor, after someone informed me all you have to do is Google our first name, city, state plus Airbnb. And our listings comment up in google....I changed my profile pic and pulled two of my listings.  Last thing I need is people stalking me.

im a superhost and I can't believe some of the stuff the case managers have said to me.

[Linda1325]

I can feel how you were treated. Those AirBnB case mangers are trained to take our money. I have the listing very clearly stated restricted areas at my 5000 square feet luxury home, and they said it was supposed to let the guest to use the whole property. And there judgement is based on pictures, but when I provided the pictures to AirBnB from another guest who made big mess and damaged my home, they didn’t pay me anything for the damage. 

[Mariam23]

I have been very unhappy with airbnb as a host. I had a dispute after a guest checked in. He was just point blank rude and crazy. Airbnb refunded him against my refund policy! And ever since then they have not released any of my payouts even though i always get a payout a day after a guest checks in. I am considering suing them. I propose that hosts who havr been wronged by airbnb come together and find a way to get our rights! 

[Ingrid181]

Airbnb did the same thing to me. I appealed the decision as I had before and after pictures and witnesses. Airbnb made the wrong decision and refused to look at my posting and evidence. They made the incorrect decision without discussing with me and refunded the guest. I asked them to apologize and pay me the monies they owe. They simply told me the same robotic response.... that they were not going to work with me to fix their mistake. As a result I pulled two of my listings with them. If more hosts complain and pull their listings then maybe Airbnb would be more fair and fix their mistakes. Right now they have supervisors who don't care about Airbnb's business model or their customers.  It's too bad because I used to be a raving fan, now I will never recommend hosting on Airbnb. 

[Vijay19]

In my experience Airbnb rules are for hosts only, guests are allowed tondo anything they like.

[Linda1325]

I have bad experience several times that AirBnB sided the guests. The guest took some pictures from the blocked area at my 3m dollar home and refunded my payout to the guests. If all based on the pictures, I had another guests literally destroyed my place that I had to paint the wall and clean their vomiting area in my yard, which I never got the security payout from AirBnB. It’s a shady business with AirBnB who doesn’t own any of the homes but collecting hard working hosts’ service fees. I’m going to find more people to sue AirBnB for unfair business if you want to join!