Host refuses to refund guest despite BLACK MOLD found in home!

[Hillary-and-Adam0]

I'm absolutely furious! 

My mother and I checked into an Airbnb in Granada after a long trip from Chicago, through London & Malaga, to Granada.  We were eager to check in and get settled and relax.  However, I noticed water on the floor of the kitchenette (and the bed wasn't far from there -- it was a one-room place), and I looked under the sink to see if there was a problem with the pipes, and I found BLACK MOLD all over the back wall where there had clearly been water damage.  We had smelled something musty when we had first entered the place, but figured it was just an old building -- it was the mold! 

Worried that we'd be left homeless for the night, I immediately booked another AirBnB nearby (one that had "instant booking"), and we left.  Once checked into the new AirBnB down the street, I sent the first place's host a polite message saying what we had found, and told him that unfortunately, we would not be able to stay there, and would like a refund.  Well, the guy put up a fight! 

He said I wasn't behaving "correctly," and that I was trying to find things to complain about!  WHY would I want to have to worry about finding another place last-minute like that, if there was no SERIOUS problem with his place?  It makes no sense!  I had taken photos of the water on the floor and the water damage and BLACK MOLD on the wall, and I sent him the photos.  He said, "That's burn."  LOL!!! 

So, he fought me over it, and I told him that if he wouldn't grant the refund for an uninhabitable place, I would involve AirBnB.  So I did.  And after seeing the photos and hearing the description of the premises, THEY REFUSE TO REFUND ME!!!  They said that I didn't abide by the policy of contacting the host and letting him try to resolve the situation!  AS IF YOU COULD RESOLVE BLACK MOLD IN AN HOUR!!!  Black mold is a toxic, serious problem that affects the air quality -- especially for people with asthma like me, which I also told AirBnB -- and it needs to be professionally eradicated, which takes at least a few days.  I told AirBnB that it's not a typical "spill" or something that the host can clean up in a few minutes.  It's a serious problem that would take DAYS to resolve, and my mother and I were only in Granada for a few days! 

And what was I supposed to do, leave us HOMELESS for those 3 days that the host would be resolving his home's MOLD issue???!?!??!  It's so unfair, and I'm absolutely FURIOUS about this.  I tried writing to customer service again, and after a few days, I've received the same response.  I'm incredulous.

Does anyone have any suggestions of how to get through to higher-ups at AirBnB to get this refunded?  And to get this guy reported for renting out MOLDY premises?  I can't believe that they even saw PHOTOS of the mold, and did nothing about it!  I'M SO MAD!

[Susan4255]

So speaking of 

"

You arrived.

You did not like the place.

I checked everywhere to find something to reproach.

"

what could a host do to avoid such issues? and what could a host do to minimize the impact of such guests?

[Jandra760]

Hi @Hillary-and-Adam0. I found your post because I was actually looking into guidelines regarding renting moldy houses. I’m 1000000% with @Regina673 on this one. I’m also a medical professional that is aware of CIRS and mold toxicity. These people on this thread are absolutely ridiculous, and I’m sorry this was your experience. I have done training in this field and we unfortunately had to move out immediately because of a gas leak that was found. We have a 2 year old with behavioral issues and making a huge change like moving into a new house was really going to take a toll on that situation and not ideal, but obviously for our safety, we needed to. Our property manager who is amazing notified us immediately and helped us book an air bnb close to our place to minimize the hassle. We were both at work and she sent us the link and the place looked good, and had good reviews. We had about 2 hours to get situated after work. When we walked in, there was an extreme musty smell - which is off for a place that looks like it’s just been fully re-done. Because I’ve taken a training from one of Dr. Shoemakers people I knew what to look for and the steps. First, I contacted the host from the number we were given - I talked to the person there and I said “do you have any history on this house regarding mold, we just walked in and it smells extremely musty like mold” her reply was this “can you take a picture” - are you kidding me? I said “no, it’s a smell.” She then said I’m sorry but any communication needs to go through who booked this (our property manager) so I contacted her, and she relayed the message. They mentioned nothing about this. There was a number of other issues that were asked, some were answered, some were not. They never responded about the mold. I then went on a search and checked the likely spots - bathroom foundation was all messed up - tub isn’t even connected to the flooring, areas of what looks like black mold (can’t be sure), and evidence of water damage in the cabinets. The house is quite humid in the day. 

The beautiful thing about Shoemaker and his research on CIRS is that it is HIGHLY evidence based. You CANNOT clean mold. By doing that, you kill it, and release the spores which is WORSE. It needs to be remediated - meaning REMOVED. We are stuck here now, because of many things - no cancelation policy, a 2 year old with significant anxiety issues that cannot be up and moved place to place, etc. So, I just ordered the ERMI testing kit - the one you need to accurately test for mold, it is the DNA test - not an air sample. So we have to wait and see what that says, but I will be pushing this issue when we get the results back. This is NOT okay. Many people can live in mold for a long time and not get sick, people that have genetic susceptibility (approx 25% have the genes), can get sick even from short exposure under the right conditions. The tests for this are very expensive and people don’t just do them for fun “just to see.” It is not a simple “you should disclose you have allergies” before renting a place. It doesn’t work like that and it’s NOT the same as just having allergies. 

I hope this helps - I know your initial post was a while back, but at least ease your mind that you had a right to be concerned, even if you don’t have the genetic susceptibility - how would you have known??? So, from an evidence based standpoint, your concerns were valid and this is not okay. 

[Fred13]

I think I need to expand my hosting disclaimer:

 "If you suffer from imaginary ailments, phobias, speak with 'isms, loves to play home inspector, carry an American law book when traveling abroad, consider yourself a victim of something and happens to be a disciple of Dr. Shoemaker - Please Don't Rent My Place - .

I think I got them all. 😉

[Symone10]

My neice had a problem recently with mold in an airbnb unit. It was an entire wall in a broom closet & under a rug on the bathroom floor! We are fighting for full compensation! Did they reimburse you?

[Peter3160]

We had a similar experience this year. We got into a place, had mold growing out of the kitchen wall and asked for a refund. The host agreed to let us "change our booking details". We payed for the night we stayed + "cleaning costs" + "service fee".

Afterwards we left a negative review and had the host reply to that with some massive woppers. Among other things we had complained about the apartment not being as was described...and she had changed the description afterwards and accused us of lying about the whole thing.

I contacted air-bnb and they told us that we had no rights to a refund because their evaluation of the situation showed that the mold was not severe enough to warrant a refund. Their policy was to give refunds on case by case basis and our case was not severe enough to warrant one.

I don't think I will be using air-bnb again and I have told this story to several friends and doubt they will do so either. I have never seen something like this before, a company that will argue with you about the severity of the mold infestation in you place.

[Sarah977]

@Peter3160  It's hard to tell from your photo, but there is something called effluorescence that can come out of walls, particularly in hot, humid climates. It's salt based mineral (called saltpeter in English) that forms when moisture interacts with building materials like cement and lime. It isn't toxic. It starts "growing" out of walls as a white, fluffy substance, and when it is washed off, leaves the wall looking much like your photo. 

It can be removed with vinegar or muriatic acid, which neutralizes it, the wall washed, sealed and repainted, but it will keep coming back unless the  source of the moisture is identified and eliminated.

I'm not saying that wall photo isn't mold, it's just good to be aware of the difference. 

[Peter3160]

@Sarah977 That was definitely mold. It grew out of the wall in something like "hairs" with black spots in the center where a lot of the "hairs" grew out. 

But, playing devil's advocate, even if it wasn't mold, the customer service reps I talked to did not know that so they should err on the side of caution in a potential health risk. Imagine you go to a restaurant and the food is off-color and smells strange. How would you feel if you were told that you had to pay for it because, after all, it might be fine even if it looks weird? Any good restaurant would offer a full refund along with an apology or they should expect never to see that customer again, right?

But it's not even the money. I can take the hit. It's the policy of letting the host decide that. If Air-bnb had replied "Yep, that is an issue. We can't refund you this day but we will refund you the rest. Sorry." I would not even complain. But letting the host handle this means that you are at the mercy of that person. If they decide to ignore your problem, you are screwed. That's playing the lottery with a lot of money and little possible gain.

Air-bnb isn't cheaper than a hotel in most places. I think the hotel was 50 dollars more where I went. We went with the air-bnb because we could use the kitchen to safe some money on the food. We ended up paying over 200 for the night due to the fees and then had to get a more expensive hotel because we could not get early booking discounts. All in all this little experiment cost me some 400 dollars and a lot of stress. But if the host had refused I would have been down 1300 dollars. That's a lot of risk for a potential of 100 dollars saved for food.

[Fred13]

First the host was either oblivious of the spot or stupid enough to even rent the place with that showing, which didn't happen overnight. Secondly, he should never leave such a thing to 'chance', meaning to let the guest even start ~guessing~ what it is or isn't because then it all could become subjected to wild impressions, a function of individual fears and thus inevitably will lead to unnecessary confrontations. 

What should have happened is: refund the guest for unused days immediately, meaning  get them out of your life quickly since they are already irreparably spooked (rightly or wrongly) and then fix the spot. End of subject. Reason to drag Airbnb into it should never have arisen.

[Uju30]

Well a guest checked into my home and complained about dirt and noise, I informed her I'd send my key holder/cleaner over to resolve the issues. Cleaner was outside and rang guest severally and guest declined assistance with these issues she complained about and didn't let my cleaner in.

Airbnb awarded her a refund without giving me an opportunity to resolve issue and when I asked why they said it's at guest's discretion of she doesn't want the cleaner's around while she's there because it's the host's responsibility to ensure everywhere I'd clean in the first place before guest arriving. So if that is the case, you were within your rights if you didn't want host around to clean while you were there too isn't it? 

I've attached a screenshot of the message from Airbnb and you can question them with that. 

**[Content removed in line with the Community Center Guidelines- Please note that it is not allowed to share Airbnb investigation and private conversations]

 

[Brandi123]

I had the same experience. I paid $340 for a professional inspector to come out and four different toxic molds were found. My service dog in whom I have invested over $50,000, got horribly sick and his vet bills are already $1500. I am sick and we had to get out of the 

** 

toxic environment. I have had approximately 20 conversations with Airbnb and because they record the conversation I do as well, and they are doing nothing. Every time I call I tell the story and they promise the manager will call me.  no one has called me. I have now gotten an attorney. Hi I am not conducting business with the host. I pay Airbnb and Airbnb has a contract with the host so I'm after Airbnb first 

**[Sensitive image removed in line with the Community Center Guidelines]

[Brandi123]

 One of the air filters. Most mold spores are so small they cannot even be seen by the naked eye and that is why I had a professional come in and test the house and for toxic molds were found with a plethora of other horrible allergens.

[Brandi123]

**[Image removed - Community Center Guidelines]

 

[Tamera20]

We had a mold situation over Christmas. We arrived at a home that smelled like the dankest, mildewiest basement you can imagine being in. My daughter is one of the 20% of the population who are sensitive to mold. Within five minutes of arriving, she developed hives and her throat was getting scratchy.

We evacuated her and went to a hotel, because it was either that or end up taking her to the ER five minutes later. The rest of us had to leave the home, too, because we are aware that if mold spores get into clothing, that could also cause her to have a reaction to the mycotoxins..

The host said that she'd had the place checked for mold the previous summer and put in a water abatement system. But, she said NOTHING about mold remediation. She KNOWS/KNEW mold was a problem in the space before us.

Airbnb dragged out dealing with this until after the deadline had passed for us to leave a review, and customer service tried to say that this was a "personal allergy" rather than a reaction to a neurotoxin. They also said that we "lacked evidence," though I sent them time-stamped photos of my daughter that were taken a few hours after she got medications into her system to stop the cytokine storm. I don't know if the customer service representative expected me to tear open walls until I found the source of the mold (though I think it was in the basement), but it was simply ridiculous to expect us to provide samples of mold. Mold hidden in walls isn't always visible.

I am so thoroughly disgusted by Airbnb's customer service process that I intend to share our story far and wide. We're not made of money and had to pay for hotel in addition to our unusable Airbnb. The worst part for me is that when we read reviews of the property, there were people who said they were in town for medical procedures at a nearby hospital. Mold toxicity is hard enough to diagnose in a previously healthy person. Can you imagine what this would be like for someone whose health is already compromised? They'd have no idea what the problem was if they were reacting to that mold.

We will never rent another Airbnb. I'm sure there are clean facilities out there, but obviously, this is a case of buyer beware.

[Suzanne302]

@Hillary-and-Adam0 

How unusual. I've heard stories from hosts who were upset because guests have been refunded for absolutely ridiculous reasons, yet it seems you have a valid reason for a refund and they refuse to refund.

All I can say is keep trying. As a host, I have found it all depends on who you talk to. Try getting another CS rep on the phone to see if you can get a different outcome.

[Hillary-and-Adam0]

Thank you for your response.  You're the only person who agrees that I should have been refunded for this health hazard.