Three stays in a row, all listings featured enhanced cleaning protocols:
1) Host says apartment will be ready at 2pm. Host and friend in apartment at 2:30pm until after 3:15p fooling with equipment in one bedroom. Host & freind exit via kitchen, where they take things out of refrigerator cabinets etc.; no gloves etc; pretty clear no enhanced cleaning or disinfecting because *no cleaning products in sight*. (This host has 1800 reviews for multiple properties).
2) "New French host." (The one who has no one to bring keys for days; also had no check-out plan). In apartment at check-in. No gloves, clearly no protocols from state of things (food left open in refrigerator etc); insists on showing apartment despite checking off contactless check-in. Ditto cleaning products.
3) Italian hosts running multiple rooms around city. Self-check in instructions revealed as "meet host in person" 24 hours in advance; meet in entryway to building, insist on taking us up one-by-one on a small elevator. Enter apartment, host takes mask off; host enters apartment at other times!; host and cleaner or assistant enter apartment without notice without masks (aren't mobile cams great?). (I haven't checked what they have in the cleaning cabinet; it's possiblethey cleaned beforehand, but are taking back-to-back reservations at this point).
To be frank, I don't know where to begin, but based on this limited experience, the protocols are just check boxes and a significant number of hosts are just going through them without reading (hey, I noticed that you have to agree to a contactless check-in!).
How the heck are same-day turns being allowed?!!? for that matter. We are doing very well in Italy and France, but continuing to do so requires care and vigilance. The above aren't it.
This is disappointing and concerning (not to start on some behaviors I've seen in Milano in the past days-- my grandfather's temper and some of his most pointed Italian phrases, almost came out for some teenagers on the subway today).
Equally, though, as a guest, I chose and paid for those services and there's a problem when those services are not delivered, at all.
You certainly have a point there. Well, maybe, if you're not one of those "this ain't a hotel, which means the guest better not expect me to live up to my promises and obligations or take any responsibility" blokes.
Hosts 1 & 2 here were last-minute due to another host cancellation, and the host before them was clearly quite a bit more careful.
We did the last few days of our quarantine period in the UK in a hotel (friends needed their cottage back, and are now owed a super-big favour) and while it wasn't perfect (the occasional bloke on staff, running up the stairs without a mask) they sure as $#$** weren't coming in rooms.
We went out to dinner yesterday and ... the best I can say is, some people in Italy seem to have gotten it, but just haven't gotten the details. (You can't hand me a bottle of olive oil which you could disinfect, so you hand me packets three people have just touched; your mask falls off and you're breathing three inches away from customers, who have their masks off to eat).
Things are alright now, but it's a fine line and people don't seem to get how much care is needed or we're back to where we were.
@Kenneth12 Quarantine in the Uk requires you to stay in ONE place for the 2 week period. Moving between properties is not allowed. It's strange you are quick to complain about others when you are breaking the law yourself.
@Mike-And-Jane0 : wrong (so many people, so many different poor opinions; it really would help if people read what the Home Office puts out, instead of relying on the popular media). Today in fact, reciprocity means you can complete the 10/14 day isolation period in multiple countries. But hey, you know better ...that's why you posted.
@Kenneth12 Copied directly from UK Government site
How to self-isolate in your accommodation
You should self-isolate in one place for the full 14 days, where you can have food and other necessities delivered, and stay away from others. You must self-isolate at the address you provided on the public health passenger locator form.
But don't worry too much - The police don't seem keen on enforcing the law at present so your admission of breaking said law probably won't cause you a problem.
Your first question might have been "what category did you enter the UK under?" Then you could have checked what regulations applied to that category. Which would have required due diligence and work and more effort than is require to skim a government website. (Hint: I am government worker. My own part in getting authorization took well over 30 hours. It probably took consular offices in 3 countries, over 100 hours).
The UK government site you link is not a good summary of the various regulations and protocols, much less the current actual state of affairs, which, to quote a consular officer in London, is "highly dynamic." Perhaps you "should" self-isolate in one place, but the UK registration form and app allow you to enter multiple addresses (etc) for self-isolation (if necessary) And if we're talking post-July-15th protocol, isolation is purely voluntary (for most categories); not to even get us to the per-country protocols; the tourists on my last flight from Amsterdam, certainly didn't look like they planned to self-isolate much on landing, and the European tourists on the streets of Paris last weekend were even less restrained.
But go on assuming you know more. And keep posting presumptuous assertions that are slanderous to my character and honestly. That'll get you far, if not a lawsuit. (You know slander in the UK, doesn't even have a truthfulness defense, right?)
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It is not appropriate to wildly accuse someone of criminal activity, without knowing much about what you're talking about. When published online and visible to millions of people, such accusations *are* a way to get yourself a barrister bill.
Starting a little side drama about "you're violating the law, blah blah blah blah aren't you hypocritical" rather than addressing the topic at hand is an immature, distracting move and the kind of behavior I'd terminate an employee for at the drop of a hat.
Due diligence is due diligence. Of all the inappropriate activity in this forum-- we seem to be drifting back of late-- no one is served by someone making the kind of accusations M&J made, then argumentatively doubling down despite some firm discouragement from their path, when they're simply not correct.
Mike and Jane can do due diligence like other adults, think before they publish something with false, misleading, slanderous and inaccurate information (it's not that hard to follow the websites to get more information about what the UK is requiring, another 15-30 minutes will get you to longer .pdfs and other explanations), or they can act like children and accuse people of criminal behavior & whatnot (oh, that's so nice )-- which is slander and for which I can litigate and you'd think that since they like in the UK not the US, they'd take a bit more care as the UK makes them much, much more liable than in the US.
Despite what you may have heard, the internet is not the wild west, online forums are generally cesspools but do not need to be, accusing someone you don't know of criminal behavior etc without any facts is is cesspool activity, and I have little time to tolerate fools.
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@Kenneth12 - Your level of entitlement leads me to suppose you may be the guest from hell.... Unbelievable to think this comes from a fellow host..... I refer you to my previous comment re nastiness & aggression.
@Helen350 Oh go sit and spin for a while. Ever really have a job, by which I mean one with responsibilities and responsibilities for the performance of others, and get chewed out by a Director for getting something you should have gotten right, wrong, when it mattered?
I'm not asking for much here, in terms of diligence and getting things right. (No UK police officers are arresting people for the things M&J are talking about, and they are certainly not arresting or fining me.). But in addition to ABB terms here, the nations in question also have some rules here, and I expect those to be followed as well.
I don't know what entitlement has to do with anything (I certainly feel I'm entitled to what I paid for, and what a listing offered and contacted for) and you're not exactly the O&C crowd, evidently, but there are things called standards as well as truth and then there is commonand the gutter.
While I agree with you that hosts should provide what is advertised and that a host should not list a property as having the advanced cleaning protocols when that is not the case, you do seem rather aggressive in your responses to anyone who questions you.
That makes me question what you would be like as a guest. Would you be reasonable? Would it be possible for a host to sort out any problems or concerns you had without getting a barrage of abuse? Maybe, maybe not. I haven't seen your correspondence with the hosts, so I don't know. Therefore, I'm not going to immediately judge you and start throwing insults at you.
However, I do believe there is a better way to communicate. For example, in the past, @Helen350 questioned something I posted on the CC and said she thought it was inappropriate. I absolutely didn't agree, but what followed was a friendly exchange about a difference of opinion. I could have retaliated instead, but I didn't, and it has turned out since that we actually agree on a lot of stuff. Who knew?
There is no need for mud slinging. Let's try to keep the discussion rational and not get so personal about people we don't really know that much about. Just a suggestion...
@Huma0 : it got personal and insulting when someone repeatedly and snarkily accused me of violating UK law (when they obviously hadn't spent much time looking over UK law, choosing to selectively and deceptively quote a website to get the result they wanted etc), rather than respond to the topic at hand, didn't it?
(Or in my two previous posts, in which I made simple inquiries seeking advice, and the immediate first comments were about "better suited for a hotel?").
Our host in Venezia tomorrow messaged that he had a gas leak this morning, and couldn't get a plumber to fix it. I replied to ask if there was some electric way to boil water, showers in Mexico and Israel can be quite spotty, we could do with that if need be and he could still get some revenue. (I suspect this is the only issue we'll have).
My current hosts in Milan are ... problematic. They are using a closed, unventilated sitting room / entrance between two apartments for storage and temporary space, which is awkward enough; and workers keep passing through and doing stuff without masks every half hour (or so it seems today: I try to give it a half hour since anyone has been there, then rush out in a respirator while disinfecting the whole area while exiting... not that half an hour is going to kill much virus).
This is a violation of the ECP however you look at it or swing it or give some leeway for reasonableness; at best, they just haven't thought about Covid suppression (there's been a lot more: they wanted me to leave 30E on the table, which they'd come in and get ... )
I've generally not mentioned these though I may follow up after we check out. Messes have a tendency to take effort to clean up, and this mess isn't mine.
Their internet went down last night (3rd time). Without going into what the problem is in Milano, I currently have two guests in Chicago and have had to wake up and reset the router remotely twice in the past week because they were worried it was too slow. Our current Italian host was unwilling to come and reset the router, which they have locked away, when we got in after 11pm. My message about that was pointed but diplomatic: "if this were my Airbnb, I'd be fixing it, and have had to ..."
Most people in this forum seem OK to me, and it's been up and down. But this is primarily a help forum. I can't imagine what it is like for the people who come here once or occasionally, and instead of help receive a certain, small amount of hosts "setting the negative tone" jumping down their throats with insults and accusations and whatnot.
I have a nice semi-permanent indentation around my face from wearing N100 gear 12+ hours a day for months. (It's awfully hot stuff above 75F). I came here to raise some issues about host hygiene and the ECP, just after reading the ECP, realizing that my past 3 hosts had violated the ECP pretty extensively.
What I don't need, and what no one coming to these forums needs, is people suddenly setting the tone by accusations of this, that, or the other-- such as that I'm violating UK law and subject to arrest or fine or whatever.
Maybe there's a way to raise such an issue, but it's not the topic at hand. In a business context, someone who keeps pulling discussion away from the topic at hand in the ways going on above, is usually pretty destructive. (I don't know if you've had a few months, in an office with three people out of six doing that?).
No, asserting that someone here is breaking UK law, based on nothing, then going off to google a page and prove it is not appropriate behavior when what we're trying to discuss are cleaning protocols, reasonable boundaries, and Covid. At best it's distracting from the topic and goal; at worst, it's some odd drama playing out.
Ditto similar dynamics.
Giving timing, we're going to check out tomorrow and try to deal with any issues with out Italian host via Message Center follow-up. If our host had insisted on having people walk in the apartment during covid, i'd probably have called the caribenieri, sure, and I certainly throught about that if the host turned more unreasonable. (We had a drunk on one of the regional trains yesterday, with a big bottle of liquor in his hand and poking people asking for money, mask down; an older man on the train, pulled the stop alarm just as we got into a station, called the caris and he was arrested in minutes).
Sometimes you do escalate aggressively, and I appreciated the old guy doing that. (There have been a series of people not nearly as far over the line on trains, where I've been thinking about calling someone. Ultimately if we're not careful, things seem fine now at least in most of Europe, but the speed at which we can fall back should be terrifying).
Generally, unless I think something is beyond the par, I'll mention it in a polite note to the host, so they can potentially fix it. If I think something may be beyond the par, I would like to bring it here to see what others think. But that doesn't work if a third of the replies are inappropriately and aggressively down-my-throat in one way or another; I don't have time to sift that out, and neither to most guests coming here, as occasional users of the forums.
It's bad enough that my Italian host has a couple people going in and out of the room outside the front door all day, and maybe he should get an earful of "what the frack do you think you're doing?" Walking into the apartment is another story-- and would be without covid, I think. You do certain things, you deserve certain responses.
Plenty of people (such as Sarah) have posed reasonable questions, such as whether gloves are useful and appropriate regardless of the technical details (mumbo jumbo) of the ECP. (Though she did seem to miss, that I'm well past any isolation period when dining in Milan... but not a big deal, even if "skewed" seemed a tad over the line to me). But the couple above, did not pose questions.
The reason I've been aggressive here, is that I've brought three issues in a row, and a small contingent has been insulting and done things that are just not reasonable. Questioning is one thing (I suppose you could try "hey, weren't you violating UK quarantine terms by moving, mate?") but a direct claim of criminal activity is quite another, especially when it's off base.
As I stated on another thread, I also can't imagine that Superhosts here treat guests with the level of disrespect on display in this forum. (Well, I can imagine that a few do.)
And then suddenly we're arguing about the details of the UK's isolation requirements-- those requirements are actually a bit complex, so they might take a while to work through, but the point is it's always an argument-- rather than dealing with the issues that have been brought to the table. (Parents, is this game familiar or not?)
When someone is raising an issue you don't necessarily like or want to respond to-- what going on, when someone deflects from the main point and issue, with an accusation like that which is another topic over in left field? (I hope you're better than dealing with this from the kids than I am ...)
There's no good faith in making wild, insulting and diversionary accusations about someone bringing a concern, rather than addressing their primary concern directly and first.
And yes, I'm calling it as I see it, a pattern childish behavior.
I don't think I would be too confident staying at an Airbnb right now, given what you describe. I would have to ask a lot of questions first, but one shouldn't have to if the host has signed up for the ECP. I just don't believe though that most hosts will actually be following it, badge or no badge.
My impression is that not so many people are concerned about safety right now. I went to the local supermarket last night and began to realise that I was the ONLY customer wearing a mask. I hadn't read the news much in the last couple of days so at first thought I had missed something and the requirement had been scrapped, so I asked the cashier about it. He said no, people were still required to wear them in the supermarket, but that only about 25% of customers actually did.
The cleaner informed me she would not be sending her staff out within minutes of the lockdown being announced. Prior to that, she had decided only to send the same person and that each cleaner would only do one house per day (usually she sends various people and two or three at a time). The lady she sent immediately washed her hands when she arrived. I felt very comfortable about it all.
So, now the cleaners have returned to work. They are back to back and it was hard to get a slot with them. I totally understand that it is not economical for them to do only one house a day, especially after being out of work for so long. However, safety measures seem to have gone out the window. Last week, three of them showed up with no masks, no gloves, nothing. It's like COVID-19 never happened...