Is "brunch for extended family, about 14 people" the same as a party?

[Jon2761]

Hello all,

We have a guest arriving the second week in May, staying for a week. She started by telling us (before we confirmed) that it would be 4 people on most of the nights - herself, her husband, her two-year-old grandson and her 88-year-old mother-in-law. They're also expecting short (one-night) visits from her niece, and then her sister-in-law, so some nights would be 6 people. A couple of days after we confirmed, she said that her mother-in-law wants to bring a longtime friend with her, who will share her room. We said okay. She asked if we have a fire pit. We do not. She asked if she could bring a cheap one (not sure who she thought would be paying for it). We decided to buy a propane one, so that we can control the kind that is used (we don't want wood-burning), and also it's an amenity that can be used by future guests. 

So today another message from her pops up - they'd like to host a brunch on Mother's Day for extended family, probably for about 14 people. We're starting to feel uneasy with all of her requests and changes, and now this brunch comes up. On one hand, I appreciate that she let us know up front - she's not trying to sneak anything by us. And maybe it's not the worst thing in the world to have a bunch of family members over for brunch. We're not sure how worried we should be. 

So I'm wondering how worried you might be, and how you'd handle it?

Thanks!

Nancy

[Jon2761]

**ANOTHER UPDATE**   I canceled her reservation, with no problems at all from Airbnb, as far as I can tell. I had asked our guest to cancel, but she would have lost 50% of her payment, so I decided to give it a try, thinking that if I got any scary warnings I'd call customer service and ask for their help. One of the options  included as a reason for canceling was that the guest was planning a party. All of our communication was documented on the platform, so I chose "Party", and that it was based on our messaging and not on a "suspicion". And that was it, the cancelation went through immediately. She was happy because then she could go ahead and book her new place. And not only did it clear our calendar, but we just got another booking inquiry for that same week.

[Kristina46]

In the future, don't chance it. Always call in and ask for an administrative cancel in situations like this. You dodged a bullet with this demanding kook though! 

[Helen427]

"Brunch" as the average person has been raised to understand what it is.

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TH19130213.2.83

@Jon2761 @Elaine701 @Kristina46 @Diana-And-Lando0 @Scott-and-Mary-Ellen0 

[Sarah977]

@Helen427 Everyone knows what brunch means. The issue is more people in the house than the host is comfortable with, not what they plan to do or what time of day they plan to do it.

[Diana-And-Lando0]

I would tell her that there will be an additional fee per person.  Just like restaurants when people plan a party and need to pay per head.  What about damage done by any of their guests.  Since they are not on the Airbnb booking, who will pay for that, if it happens?

[Helen427 · Accepted solution]

@Jon2761  A brunch is not a party, and by all accounts it sounds like it is just a gathering of close family & friends who haven't seen each other and were looking forward to a catch up.

The average person may not even be drinking alcohol for a Brunch, it's not like they sound as if they are the full on 'Party' types that you are describing.

Alas, it's your choice who you want in your home.

Be mindful however there are still larger families in the world.

It's been absolutely stupid of those who have put a Median number of people restriction on how many people can live together, or gather etc as it's unrealistic when there's families and living arrangements of all numbers and always has been.

I recall hearing stories of larger families a number of years ago wanting to attend events like the Cinema or events as a "Family" and they were denied the right to attend unless they paid extra as a '"Family" was an average of 2 adults and 3 children at the time...

It pays to be open minded and not assume in life.

I hope your new enquiry is a good choice, do let us know how they are.

[Jon2761]

@Helen427   In theory I completely agree with you, and this is why we hesitated about denying her the opportunity for a family brunch of 14 or more. I myself have 3 siblings, and when we all get together it's a sizeable crowd, with spouses and kids (who are now grown). But this particular house is not the right place for an Airbnb guest gathering of this size. We've already had so much damage just with regular families staying there who didn't know they're not supposed to flush wipes - even flushable ones - down the toilet, costing us thousands to dig up our pipes to find the cause of the blockage and discover a rock-solid clump of wipes . Or those who don't know not to pour grease down the sink, costing us hundreds to clear out that pipe after it caused the dishwasher to overflow and the sink not to drain. It's an historic house with brand new furnishings, and 14 or more people running around, including young children, is just too risky.

[Kristina46]

Disagree. 14 is a party. Your advice is bad. 

[Kathryn-and-Paul0]

Well I've been to a few brunches that have ended up as parties and if they were wanting to extend to 14 for the brunch it could easily end up with a few more...   No, No and No would have been my response, I think you dodged a bullet there.

[Elaine701]

Yes, this sounds like one of those "I'll take it if I can get it" types. 

I'm always happy to accommodate guests. It's their holiday, and my job is to make sure they can make the most of it, to the extent I can reasonably accommodate them. 

However, I always see a red flag when they ask for one some special thing after another, without a mention of asking whether we'd be willing, or what extra costs are involved. It starts to smell like "party".

Prior to the pandemic, we have hosted many parties but ONLY when we agree to it, very specific details are provided, AND there's agreement on any additional costs, AND with host oversight when appropriate. It's a decent piece of business for us, but it's risky and we have a separate contract for those types of events covering all kinds of things that could go wrong. 

Bear in mind, that if they book a professional venue for such an event, the costs will likely be orders of magnitude higher, which is precisely why many turn to booking a villa or other suitable private accommodation, under the guise of a family holiday. Their "party" didn't come to mind "after the fact". It's why they were looking in the first place. 

In past years, we've had plenty of those seeking a cheap venue for their "get together". They claim to be taking a family vacation, but then, the add-ons start adding up. When that happens, I ask them if theyre planning a party... And if so, I refer to our terms about that. In the end, some accept our terms, but many back out. 

One thing that helps prevent this is something which, here in a popular holiday destination, we can get away with in the high season; 7 night minimum stay. So, if they want the place for the weekend for their "party", they have to pay a minimum of 7 days at high season rates. And that's expensive for a couple days of party. We just won't show up in their search in the first place. 

A party isn't the same thing as a family holiday, no matter how they frame it. In your case, it just sounds like another "we'll take it if we can get it cheap".

Glad you worked it out though. Watch your back. 

[Laura2592]

@Jon2761  I am so glad that this worked out for you. You definitely dodged a bullet IMHO.

I'll take this opportunity to once again request/beg/cajole/implore ABB to create some kind of meaningful guest guidelines that include:

1. Read the house rules and the listing in its entirety

2. Don't bring extra people beyond what you reservation says 

3. Don't throw parties/brunches/weddings or any other event in the space. ABB is intended for a residential short or long term stay only and is not a substitute for an event venue. 

Among other things.  Hosts should never feel pressured by a guest to add an amenity that is not normally offered.  Again the guest is responsible to actually read the listing. If it doesn't have a fire pit and a fire pit is a must have,  look elsewhere.  The agreement between guests and what a host offers is spelled out in the listing,  end of story.  Guests may want a pool, hot tub or larger bed but again,  if it's not present at the time of booking its not incumbent upon the host to cater to guest fantasies. I often wonder what these type of folks have in their own home....if you have a fire pit already,  why not throw brunches in your own space? 

And finally once and for all guests, we love you but this is not YOUR space. You can't treat it in any way you choose.  You don't have carte blanche to entertain,  invite your hookup over, invade private spaces,  rearrange furniture,  park anywhere,  etc. You are a GUEST which means you are a temporary addition to a space owned by someone else.  We want you to be comfortable but this is not your property.  You are not entitled to treat it as such. You are only entitled to what is on offer. 

[Michelle53]

@Jon2761  One of my worst reviews came from a "move-the-goalposts" guest.  Initially, she booked (as far as I can recall) for 3 guests, to come into town for 5 days for a conference.    My space has a maximum occupancy of 4.

Then, she added one more person. I updated the reservation. I have a per-guest extra charge after the first guest.

Then, she said not all the guests would be staying for all of the days - some for 3 days, some for 2 days, and could I amend the pricing for the days fewer than 4 guests would be here. I accommodated that.

Then, she said one guest's partner had decided to come, and could I accommodate 5 people, and they would "double up in the beds"  ?  At which point, I had to say no, because that would have put me over my maximum occupancy, per city ordinance and fire code.   Apparently, she said, everything around was fully booked due to this conference, so relocating wasn't an option. 

Requests stopped after that, but it seemed like everything went downhill after that.

She locked the door key inside, and one of her friends had to wait outside for her to come back, several hours later.  Nobody reached out to me to assist the locked-out friend.  Who may, or may not, even have been a booked guest. I didn't have a ring doorbell at that time, but I always wondered if the 5th person showed up anyway, which is why they never reached out to me for help. 

I ended up  with a 3 star review.  "All the beds were not equally comfortable", or words to that effect.   I actually think she transposed the public and private feedback, because the private feedback was quite good.