Mass Shooting in Airbnb house in Orinda last night, 4 dead

[Lan1]

Breaking news:  4 dead, many injured in  an Airbnb party house in Orinda CA last night ( 10/31). The house is just few steps away from my second residence in the same street. About 10:00pm, My daughter and I were driving back to our residence, noticed that the street were full of cars. After a while, we heard police helicopters and ambulances arriving ....Neighboor next door told us there was a mass shooting in the Airbnb house few steps away.

The head of Airbnb trust and safety announced that  they will conduct serious investigation, according to the news.

My dear fellow host, I have been posting  many times regarding my concerns to Airbnb unsafe booking process.  My own house has been targeted several times for huge parties/criminal activities, but it couldn’t get enough attention from Airbnb trust and safety 

department.

 Please protect yourself and be safe!

[Mark116]

@Lizzie   It's really no problem, there is nothing I would say to an airbnb representative, senior management team, or not,  that I haven't probably said at least 20 times on this forum, so if you guys are collating the feedback here, then it's fine.  But thank you.

[Jennifer1421]

@Mark116If a 24/7 platform is terming something a "sprint", I wouldn't expect them to stop for a "sammich" in the middle of it 🙂

[Rebecca181]

@Lizzie Honestly, I feel we are all being quite civilized in our responses. Anger is a valid response to poor treatment, broken promises, being scapegoated and gaslighted, etc. 

At least we still care enough to be here as we appropriately continue to request acknowledgement  of our justified grievances regarding Airbnb policies that harm *hosts*, as well as to demand change. 

[David6]

@Rebecca181 @Lizzie @Laura_C 

Agree absolutely with Rebecca. We are now not feeling comfortable to post our true thoughts  on this thread, and I feel this is a huge mistake on Airbnb’s part. I’ve stopped posting here. 

We are are now discussing on other platforms/social media. The anger is actually intensifying. We are repulsed.

 To to try to embarrass & close down JUST 3 hosts @Lizzie  with your recent post IS OUTRAGEOUS!!! @Susan17  @Sarah977  @Rebecca181 . Many more of us have posted, regarding feeling let down and  unsupported  by @Laura_C  . This lady has a team of 100! Yet we are still waiting to hear back on her pledge to make the review system fairer for hosts? 

US media are now monitoring our conversations and reaching out to us. Tonight a major US broadcaster contacted me.

We are angry and frustrated and SICK of the treatment we are receiving at the hands of Airbnb. 

The recent public announcements sound like a horror show for hosts. It’s all about how hosts need to do better.

No! Airbnb you have dealt with this tragic situation in the most appalling manner.

Maybe you believe you have closed the topic down on this thread! No! We are even more active on external platforms! The media are looking for a scoop and many of us  are being approached numerous times per day. A massive volcano is being created and it’s going to erupt! YOU need to do better! 

[Rebecca181]

@David6 I don't know where these other social media gatherings are taking place, so here I still am, tilting at windmills in the heat of the merciless sun.

@Denis227 I always get a kick out of your comments. Please don't imagine that I think we can effect change via our little individual protests here. I can't speak for the others still active in this thread, but here's why I continue on:

For me, this forum is now the symbolic container of Airbnb, a platform originally based on a vision of 'community and trust'.  Symbols are important for a variety of reasons, especially during times of crisis -  and even revolutionary change.

I do appreciate my continued ability to post here, and am not at all offended by @Lizzie's addressing her admonishments to three of the female hosts still speaking up, while not including the men. I'm not offended, because I think I understand it.

The fact is, this sort of thing is typical in an organizational system, whereby the 'sub-systems' begin to 'mirror' each other, including in times of stress and crisis. We female hosts were the recipients of this gentle but firm reprimand; male hosts were not included or even mentioned (despite the many comments they have made that are no different in tone or general content than @Sarah977's, @Susan17's, or my own).

Which, if you stop and think about it, is very similar to hosts being in a sense publicly reprimanded by Chesky, while guests were barely even mentioned. This is therefore a most acute example of sub-systems 'mirroring' each other in an organizational system - A process that is mostly unconscious. Without much awareness of what is happening within the system as a whole.

Fascinating. 

[David6]

@Rebecca181 

Totally agree with you. I was surprised not to be mentioned by @Lizzie. I personally do not feel it’s appropriate for these threads to be policed in any way. Hosts are pretty decent and we would call out any inappropriate posts. I have not seen any such posts in this thread. Yes anger, disgust, frustration. Because 5 people died & it could happen again this weekend. 

Ive hosted for several years now and was very active on the old ‘groups’ forums. When my apartment was trashed I received so much support and made many  great friends. We now chat on WhatsApp or other platforms. 

@Denis227 

I am am fully aware we will not make any progress with this company, because individual hosts are of no worth. We’ve known it for years now. Just in London there is a 50% over supply most  evenings.

But the media are watching these threads and they are reaching out to hosts. Who knows if it will lead to anything? I’m not expecting it to. But some day, someone may just have an idea. That’s why I still stick around. 

[Patricia55]

@Laura_C 

We definitely need to hear from you as soon as possible regarding Airbnb's proposed measures to build up trust again, in hosts vis-a-vis guests.

I found it demoralising, to say the least, after the murders in Orinda, to hear Brian Chesky announce the proposed verification of all 7 million listings, as if there was a link between the two. Since then, silence regarding plans to deal with bad guests, or to support hosts in dealing with bad guests.

I think we can agree that there are faults on all sides: Airbnb, (some)hosts and (some)guests. Wouldn't it have been better, if you're going to announce any improvements, to announce improvements on all three sides at the same time?

This situation is not good.

[Donata12]

@Laura_C 

Was the Host survey sent out this morning part of your efforts to hear  hosts and clear hosts from all the blame you guys pout on us after the shooting?? Because if it was, it sure did not ask hosts the proper questions. So my question is: do you really want to hear hosts out and are you willing to make efforts to help us work better and feel safer or is this just another lie?

[Rebecca181]

For what it's worth, I did not receive a 'host survey'. But if I did, given how our input has been received / ignored on these forums. it is doubtful I would have felt motivated to complete it.

[Sarah977]

@Rebecca181  I didn't receive one either, not surprised, though.

[Susan17]

@Sarah977  @Rebecca181 

Nope. Me neither. I'd be shocked if I did!

[Denis227]

@Susan17 @Jennifer1421 @Lan1 @Mark116 @Patricia55  @Rebecca181 @Sarah177 @David6 

It seems the  french word EXUTOIRE has no translation in modern english.   An "exutoire" in french is something which helps you obtain relief,  get rid of your stress without having to disturb or embarrass other people. Physical activities like sport or sex are often  used as "exutoire" by stressed out people. Social networks are great "exutoires"  for all sorts of nevrotic minds. 

 "Outlet" is probably the closest equivalent in english but somehow it does not convey the same imperiousness.  

Anyway this forum has been thought by Airbnb executives as an EXUTOIRE , a closed  box where hosts can shout as much as they want, isolated from the rest of the  world  so their screams would not hinder AirBnb 's reputation.   

I see three fundamental reasons why AirBnb will never pay attention to your  wishes  

1- Except in a limited number of towns and period, Airbnb has more rooms and apartments than it will ever need for its guests. So the market is guest driven ( not host driven) , which logically implies that Airbnb is guestcentric.  AirBnb couldn't care less about hosts not satisfied with its business model.  But  it is certainly  vital for AirBnb that guests have a pleasant experience. So the onus is on hosts and will always be on hosts  to give guests a pleasant experience. 

Illustration  : I remember decades ago  in the early 1990's  when i was cycling in Normandy with my wife it  was very difficult to find  an available  B&B at the last minute in little turistic towns such as Bayeux ( where they have the famous 70 meters long tapestry ) for there were just a handful of B&Bs.   Well , I just read a local press  article  which mentions the opening of the 300th  AirBnb in Bayeux (as compared to a population of 13 000).  I'd be curious to know what is the WORLDWIDE  booking rate of AirBnb at any given point in time,   except on saturday nights  ? 10 % ? 15 % ? 5 % ?  

2-Sweet contractual conditions are reserved for property management companies. There is absolutely 

no reason why  AirBnb will ever consider to  grant  the same sweet treats and little extra to individual owners (  self management of deposit, .full details on guest history ......etc) 

Illustration : as a member of a PROFESSIONAL  propane  buyers group, I pay my propane gas around 600 euros / ton while all DOMESTIC  customers pay anything  between 1200 and 2500 euros per ton.  As long as you are a lonely customer, you have no bargaining power whatsoever. When you deal with a powerful entity, your best interest is always to group with others before going to the negociation table.  

3- Any strenghtening of  the booking procedure in the sense that we require will  necessarily have to be done at the expense of the guest.

For this very reason  it will be rejected by AirBnb as contrary to its business model. 

1+2+3 =  I'm absolutely  convinced that nothing good will come out of this sprint  exercice for hosts.

Therefore I'm not joining you in calling to account the two young ladies whose difficult task consists in making  us believe that they care for us  while  all they have in their hat is tranquiliser and  oitment to soothe a legitimate chronic  pruritus.  I'm just waiting for their  final answer  and  will disappear from this forum. 

Individual plea for clemency sent to AirBnb executives  thru this forum will never work.

It's high time you beef up  your strategy.

If you don't want or if you don't feel like running your property like  professionals , then the only solution you have left  is to create a national alliance , a syndicated group of non professional AirBnb hosts who agree to participate in the financing of a legal action .

Take AirBnb to Court for abusive clauses in consumer contracts. It will  take years but I can assure you that it is much  more efficient than ranting on this forum. 

I suggest the following acronym for your syndicate   

" ACHE " for  " AirBnb Council for Hosts Empowerment " 

[Denis227]

@Susan17 @Jennifer1421 @Lan1 @Mark116 @Patricia55  @Rebecca181 @Sarah177 @David6 

You shouldn't be surprised that AIrBnb does not respect any of its  promises

Here is the translation of the interview given on the 4th November to the french  professional press by the Head of Turism Affairs at Paris Town Hall ( this is just a small extract of the interview, which relates to AirBnb ). 

QUOTE 

I'm one of those people  who were initially  very open minded about Airbnb , thinking that it could be a supplement for the Parisians, or an additional offer to the hotels  that needed rooms and that may not meet the needs of certain clienteles. I was more likely to try to find a way for this activity to be done in good conditions. I met people from Airbnb. It is clear that all the commitments they have made to us have never been respected. None.   So, obviously, the relationship  had to be hardened. We would have liked the State, and in particular the legislator, to give us the means to go further, because  our great tragedy is  the fact that the law is the same for Biarritz or Paris, which do not have the same problems at all. In  Biarritz  it is a tourist issue, in Paris a housing issue.  We can not admit that in the center of Paris, 26,000 housing units have left the residential market.

UNQUOTE 

So you see they are bull**bleep**ting many people.      Not just the hosts. 

[Sabine-Ingrid0]

@Denis227  what do you mean by that ?

"It's high time you beef up your strategy.

If you don't want or if you don't feel like running your property like professionals , then the only solution you have left is to create a national alliance , a syndicated group of non professional AirBnb hosts who agree to participate in the financing of a legal action ."

Whatever you mean by professionals.. many Hotels Hostels aso running there business by using a platform simulär to Airbnb .. so what are you trying to tell us with your tedious posts ? Useless crap, like its not worth to support each other in the community ?

[Denis227]

@Sabine-Ingrid0 

My sentence " If you don't want or if you don't feel like running your property like professionals" was too  elusive, I must admit.

It only referred to point #2 of the same post where I make clear that AirBnb, like Janus, has two very distinct faces :  a bad or even ugly  face for INDIVIDUAL hosts like you and me;   and a good face for  PROFESSIONAL  customers. 

The terms "Individual" and "Professional customers" does not refer AT ALL  to one's legal status, but only to the category attributed to you by AirBnb. 

Since the matter is a bit tricky let me explain further :  I run my rental under a company so I'm legally a professional renter which implies a number of costly obligations which non professionals hosts do not have to fulfill.   However when I asked AIrBnb to be treated as a professional ( I did ask them in 2018 when I registered as a new host ) they told me to **bleep** off.....  I was not surprised....

In order to reach the Graal of AirBnb  contractual conditions, you  presumably  have to rent a number of properties. Susan told us earlier on in this thread that the minimum number is six. Individual hotel owners will likely not be treated as professionals.  But,  as  I explained in lenght in an earlier post on the same thread,    six individual hosts like you and me could decide to make a commercial cluster and negociate with AirBnb under the same corporate umbrella .   

Therefore there is no need for each host who wants to be treated fairly by AirBnb to create his own company. 

That's all I meant    

Now there is very little information to be found on Internet on what I call the "good face" of AirBnb. 

In my view it would be of the utmost importance to gather this information and share it between us.

It would allow us , by comparison , to get an idea of how "degenerate"  is the  face of AirBnb which we are allowed to contemplate. 

Now,  regarding your final question, this forum  is great to find psychological support and   to make new friends (as Mark just explained). 

Why not use it to make up a core group of  people who are willing to take legal action ?  For if you want real change  to happen,  it will only come from  legal action ( no media campaign has ever forced Uber to step down from considering drivers as unsalaried slaves) .

Changes will not come thru this forum,  nor  will it be imposed on AIrBnb  by a media campaign.  

If AIrBnb can defy the town hall  of Paris, his number one city in the world,  it will defy anybody. 

Anybody but justice.