Mass Shooting in Airbnb house in Orinda last night, 4 dead

Lan1
Level 10
El Cerrito, CA

Mass Shooting in Airbnb house in Orinda last night, 4 dead

Breaking news:  4 dead, many injured in  an Airbnb party house in Orinda CA last night ( 10/31). The house is just few steps away from my second residence in the same street. About 10:00pm, My daughter and I were driving back to our residence, noticed that the street were full of cars. After a while, we heard police helicopters and ambulances arriving ....Neighboor next door told us there was a mass shooting in the Airbnb house few steps away.

The head of Airbnb trust and safety announced that  they will conduct serious investigation, according to the news.

My dear fellow host, I have been posting  many times regarding my concerns to Airbnb unsafe booking process.  My own house has been targeted several times for huge parties/criminal activities, but it couldn’t get enough attention from Airbnb trust and safety 

department.

 Please protect yourself and be safe!

周蘭
837 Replies 837

@Denis227 

 

It wasn't the courts of law that brought We Work (the We Company) to its knees, or knocked it from a $47 billion valuation to near ruin, in the space of 6 weeks. 

 

It wasn't the media either, but they played a very, very big part in the company's spectacular fall from grace. 

@Denis227 I did some research a couple of years back and found a detailed article that excitedly announced the special terms and conditions that commercial / professional STR enterprises might enjoy when listing a home or unit with Airbnb. It listed these benefits one-by-one in bullet form. I began to share these special benefits with hosts here in the forums (benefits such as the one you have already mentioned, e.g., ability to hold a *real* security deposit; access to ID, etc - 'benefits' that are standard for these large enterprises, as well as hotels, etc).

 

I was a bit surprised to find that very few home-sharing hosts here in the forums seemed concerned that they had less rights on the platform than commercial listers. Seemed most just swallowed the pill and took it in stride.

 

Oddly, when I went to find the article via an online search some time later after referencing the article here, it had completely disappeared and was nowhere to be found on the web, as if it had never existed. Very mysterious... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Denis227
Level 10
La Boissière-École, FR

 Thanks for making the effort to understand my point of view  @Rebecca181  

That is exactly what I meant. 

 

About your remark " I was a bit surprised to find that very few home-sharing hosts ....." 

I can see we are exactly on the same wave length.  It also  means  I was mistaken to think that this forum could be  the appropriate place for throwing concrete ideas  ( if not novel ideas ) ,  to get round the problem of AirBnB's  unwillingness to grant hosts acceptable conditions. Why are we surprised ? I suppose the financial and /or psychological stake is somewhat higher for us compared to  other participants to the forum. 

 

Personally , I don't mind being robbed in the street ( the robber managed to get my wallet so in a sense he "deserves"  it ) as much as  I mind being **bleep**ed about by a Big Corporation. I just can't stand the  idea of some white collar MBA **bleep** managing to trick me against my will into his perverse game.  There is no indignity in being pickpocketed.  But capitulating at the feet of these guys. Never.  

 

Last week , while doing some reseach to write posts on this thread, I also googled  an article on the sweet benefits granted by AirBnb to commercial listers. And how AirBnb was EAGER to grant them those many  benefits that the firm strongly denies to individual owners. It wasn't  a list of bullet points, so probably not as exhaustive as your article, but it was quite recent ( 2018 or 2019 ).  I can't find it again .  I must say the article was distressful to read. I will post the link as soon as I can recover it , possibly thru my search history ... 

 

 

Susan17
Level 10
Dublin, Ireland

@Denis227 

You seem to be labouring under the misconception that we believe for one second that Airbnb will pay the slightest bit of attention to the hundreds/thousands of comments, suggestions, ideas, complaints and (very valid) grievances we post here, and that we somehow think that if we complain often enough, and

loudly enough, that company will suddenly start to treat us with the dignity, courtesy and respect we deserve, and have earned

 

Now you and I pretty much had this very conversation, on this very thread, just a few days ago, so I shouldn't really have to explain myself yet again. What I will say is this though - as futile as you believe our efforts to be, I disagree, respectfully, but wholeheartedly. 

 

I've been posting on this forum about the seedier, grubbier side Airbnb, and their abusive and exploitative policies, for almost as long as the CC has existed, and for a very long time, nobody wanted to hear a word I said. To say my opinions (and statements of fact) were unpopular, and unwanted, here, would be an understatement. I've been scorned, sneered at, scolded, ignored, mocked, insulted, blanked, called all sorts of names and told to "go elsewhere if you don't like Airbnb" by the evangelists, more times than I care to remember (and not once, ever, has any admin stepped in to counter or halt any personal attacks on me. Which is cool with me, actually - I don't need anyone else to fight my battles for me. I'm a big girl now)

 

I'm always been acutely aware that people must have thought, "Why the hell does that crazy b*tch keep posting on here when nobody - especially Airbnb - is passing the slightest bit of heed to what she has to say?" So I'll answer that question now, once and for all. 

 

Firstly, I have never been under any illusion that my comments here - or anyone elses comments - would be taken on board by the company, in any way.  I'm not that stupid, Denis! However, I did choose this forum specifically, and deliberately, to air my views, and to post a ton of unsavoury content - invariably, backed up by solid evidence - about Airbnb's shadier practices and dodgier dealings (despite the fact that for the first 2 to 3 years, nobody wanted to hear it, and regardless of the risks and consequences to myself)

 

The reason I selected the CC, is because this is an open, public forum of over 850000 members, and is viewable and searchable by everyone - hosts, guests, Airbnb, the media, local residents, investors, law enforcement, regulators, policymakers, whoever...

 

My initial goal (and yes, this was definitely naive), was to raise awareness amongst the host community, of what was really  going on behind the scenes in Airbnb-land, in the (vain) hopes that hosts might actually open their eyes, see what's going on right under their noses, recognise the fact while things might be going just tickety-boo for them personally at that particular moment in time, that tens (or even hundreds) of thousands of their fellow hosts were (are) being systematically cheated, mistreated, bullied and abused by the company on an ongoing basis - and that sooner or later, that same abuse and exploitation would come to their own doorsteps too... therefore, it would be in all  our best interests to stand together, and to push back against Airbnb's oppressive and tyrannical M.O.

 

(Admittedly, I scored an epic fail on that one... although it has to be said, the CC no longer bears any resemblance to the evangelist stronghold it once was. Far from it, actually)

 

However... I don't believe that the 1500+ posts I've contributed here over the past 4 years, were a waste of my time and efforts at all. While the vast majority of hosts - sadly - may still be too wary or too scared of responding to controversial comments such as mine on this particular forum, for fear of reprisals and repercussions (note how many abandoned this thread as soon as Laura showed her face), I know that my voice - our voices - are being heard far and wide now, by those who are taking what I - and others - have posted here, and amplifying it to a much wider, much greater audience.

 

It's no fabrication that the global media is scouring these boards day in, day out, and reaching out to hosts for further comment, both here and elsewhere (and I'm certain Airbnb knows it too - I'm under no illusions that my Private Message Inbox on the CC, is actually private at all) To the best of my knowledge, at least two of my threads on here have been the basis for in-depth media investigations that caused quite a stir when they aired, and several others have also been referenced in recent online articles and reports. And while I have my own reasons - and my own plans - for not working directly with journos and reporters right now, I'm more than happy for them to use anything and everything I've posted in the CC for their stories and exposés. Open source content, and all that.. 

 

All this talk of talking Airbnb to court is irrelevant, really (for now, anyway). As you pointed out, court proceedings can be exasperatingly long and drawn out, and go on for years, especially when the ones being sued have unlimited power, and unlimited resources to defend their position, however nefarious it may be.

 

With the IPO now firmly on the horizon though, time is of the essence - Jeff Bezos and the rest of Airbnb's obscenely rich sugar daddies will be looking for a cash-out bonanza on IPO day, and in order for that to happen, armies of gullible, innocent mom and pop investors will be clamouring to sink their hard-earned savings and nest-eggs into what they erroneously see as a sure-fire investment in a rock-solid, noble, ethical, fuzzy-warm company.

 

To me, that would be a complete and utter travesty - and one of the most monumental cons of the century so far - because there's not a shred of doubt in my mind that the whole ugly, rotten, stinking house of cards that is Airbnb, will come crashing down, just as soon as the big boys have cashed out their chips, and banked their loot. And over my dead body will I stand by and watch that happen, without doing everything in my power to at least try to warn people that pouring their rainy-day funds into Airbnb, is absolutely not a gamble they should be taking. 

 

And you know, Denis, the court of public opinion can be a whole lot quicker - and deadlier - than the courts of law. There's always more than one way to skin a cat. So what you may see as us regular posters/dissenters screaming into the abyss here in the CC, I see as something very, very different. And if my voice is  being shut down in the CC now - as appears to be the case - that's absolutely fine by me - my work here is almost done anyway, as they say. Unless Airbnb chooses to delete every one of my 1500+ posts (which let's face it, would look rather sketchy at this point), my posts will continue to serve as a warning, and raise red flags about this despicable company, for a long time to come. So as far as I'm concerned - that part of my mission, accomplished. 

 

Besides, as I've said many times before - I've been extremely restricted in what I could and couldn't say here, that would make it past the censorship scissors. I'll have no such constraints and restrictions when I open up my files, records and years of research to a much wider audience, as I'm in the process of doing, and have been preparing for, for some time now.

 

Maybe my revelations will have an impact, maybe they won't, but if the widespread outraged reaction to the Vice article (on a single issue I've already been highlighting for years) is anything to go by, the nuggets I have yet to drop - and more importantly, all the dots I can connect - will certainly cause more than a few shockwaves through the company's brand image and reputation. And hopefully, make a few people who do have the power to force Airbnb to curb their nasty, duplicitous ways, start taking a much, much closer look at what's really going on behind the smoke and mirrors that the company have hitheto been so cunningly and successfully been hiding behind. That's always been my ultimate goal, as impossible as it seemed at times. Now though, that impossible goal finally seems very much within reach.. 

Patricia55
Level 10
Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom

@Susan17 

 

Wow. Words, I have none.

 

*squeak*

 

https://fairbnb.coop/  anyone?!

 

@Patricia55  Thanks for posting that link- looks really interesting and I'll be pursuing it. Do you know anything more about it besides what is posted on their site?

Patricia55
Level 10
Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom

@Sarah977 

TBH, I don't.  But, have just googled and found this recent article:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2019/nov/13/fairbnbcoop-holiday-rental-website-launches-help-soci...

 

Looks like the Airbnb that could have been.

 

And isn't.

 

I'll be checking it out as well. Thanks for posting, @Patricia55 

Patricia55
Level 10
Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom

@Rebecca181 

"Looks like the Airbnb that could have been.

And isn't."

 

I know.  It saddens me, actually.

Filthy lucre, eh?

@Patricia55 Yes. Very sad, indeed. At it's best, Airbnb was a wonderful concept and dream. And I have loved nearly all of my guests, some of who have become dear friends. But "a funny thing happened on the way to the forum..."

 

Only it's not so funny.

@Patricia55 

And as usual, I have too many words! 😉

 

Fairbnb is an excellent concept. It's taken them a few years to start gaining some traction, but with so many hosts now desperately searching for alternatives to the monopoly of the Big 3 (Airbnb, Booking, Expedia), and the BookDirect movement also beginning to rise, niche platforms such as Fairbnb will become much more popular now. 

Jody79
Level 10
Chicago, IL

@Laura_C @Lizzie Hi Laura & Lizzie.  I'm still a newbie and still have hope that something positive will come out of this 'sprint'.  If I were able to choose JUST ONE change, it would be to implement a true verification for both guests and hosts.  As part of the registration, prior to being able to list or book a place, an individual would have to provide verifiable ID.  No more multiple, independent accounts for the same individuals.  If a guest throws a party and trashes a place, they wouldn't be able to simply close their account and open a new one, it would be tied to the original verifiable ID and all previous reviews would follow it.  Having both guests and hosts provide verifiable ID's would help to protect both hosts and guests. 

I think ID Verification is incredibly important. It would go a long way to helping prevent "declines" of inquiries or bookings, which hosts are penalized for.  I've been getting a number of new accounts, zero reviews, two- or three-word profiles (if any), local (although one can't always see the location, and in the last few months, location has appeared in Cyrillic, Greek or Chinese characters on my booking page), only verifications being phone and email, both of which could be one-time,  requesting a few hours in a day, but not overnight stays, for all kinds of arcane reasons. This, to me, is a red flag for potential unsavory activity, which may, or may not, even be illegal. No, I'm not a prude, in the sense that couples who are on vacation are not welcome to be intimate in my space. Rather, if someone is not willing to engage in a particular activity in their own home,  what kind of activity are they bringing to my home, and why are we penalized for denying this activity ? And how does penalizing a host who uses their best judgement to establish their own safety in their own home go anywhere to creating a trusting environment ?

Sean433
Level 10
Toronto, Canada

I have one listing titled "Toronto Mansion", 6 bedrooms, 5500 square feet. It is prime target for the party crowd and we have had issues in the past So we now have 2 cameras and I always ask the guests, especially the local ones to confirm there won't be any house parties or outside guests.

 

The suggestions I made to airbnb were very practical, common sense and business minded. They were several but the main ones were

 

1) Guests must fill out their full name on their profile and it must match their government issued ID which they MUST upload to start an account

 

2) Hosts should see the guests full name and number BEFORE and AFTER the booking so they can properly screen dangerous guests with known criminal records. They said they cannot do this to prevent discrimination however their current policies will not magically eliminate discrimination. People who discriminate will discriminate no matter what. Policies cannot change peoples thoughts. But they can prevent dangerous or violent guests from coming to your private property. So what would you prefer??

 

Whenever I have a local booking, i always search their number on google but I cannot search their name so hopefully I can find enough info about them by their number. For instance, I have a guest checking in today at my larger listing, the one called "Toronto Mansion" and he is local. He told me he is booking it for his family but after I googled his number, I saw that he was a promoter for night clubs and events. But it is too late now because I was only able to see his number after I accepted. So now I am very worried he will host a party even though I asked him to confirm he is not throwing any parties. Now I have to drive by at midnight and check the cameras every 30 minutes tonight to verify because I am about 50/50 that he will throw a party. It has all the markings of it. This could have easily been prevented had we had more info before I accepted. So what will happen if something bad happens tonight or Tomorrow night, will I be to blame for not being able to screen this guest before accepting?

 

If they allowed hosts to screen guests prior to bookings, it would avoid so much drama and would actually save airbnb money from having fewer resolution requests and fewer demands on their customer service department when guests break house rules. It would also improve their credibility. 

 

These suggestions do not breach privacy laws because if a guest wants to book someones private home, the host has the right to more information before accepting. In the case of Long term rentals, it is standard practice to obtain 2 forms of the tenants government issued ID on file as well as check their credit history. We are not asking for any of this. Just their names so we know what were getting into. It really isn't too much to ask.

 

I think executives should really start taking these suggestions seriously before another tragedy happens. I shouldn't have to drive by at midnight tonight when I could be at home with my family but what choice do I have?

@Sean433  uh, I can imagine your stress today, I would be worried too. Please let us know what happened.