Mass Shooting in Airbnb house in Orinda last night, 4 dead

[Lan1]

Breaking news:  4 dead, many injured in  an Airbnb party house in Orinda CA last night ( 10/31). The house is just few steps away from my second residence in the same street. About 10:00pm, My daughter and I were driving back to our residence, noticed that the street were full of cars. After a while, we heard police helicopters and ambulances arriving ....Neighboor next door told us there was a mass shooting in the Airbnb house few steps away.

The head of Airbnb trust and safety announced that  they will conduct serious investigation, according to the news.

My dear fellow host, I have been posting  many times regarding my concerns to Airbnb unsafe booking process.  My own house has been targeted several times for huge parties/criminal activities, but it couldn’t get enough attention from Airbnb trust and safety 

department.

 Please protect yourself and be safe!

[Susan17]

@Sean433 

Are you checking them in yourself? I always find that's the best way to get a feel of whether or not they're up to no good. And leave them in no doubt whatsoever of exactly what will be happening if they p*ss me (or my neighbours) off, in any way.  They usually get the message. 

[Sean433]

@Susan17 

He had a really nice story about how his family needs the space but the fact that he is a promoter, young, local and just has a picture of the back of his head and booked for a weekend is very suspicious. Again, had I seen any of this before I accepted, I could have made an informed decision.

Even if I checked him in, he can be a good actor and can bring his party crowd after I leave at any point. And lets say I met him and wanted to refuse him entrance. Then I get slapped by airbnb and he may leave a bad review and I lose out on the potential to book this weekend because the dates are blocked. It's a no win for me. That is why airbnb needs to listen to us experienced hosts and not act after the fact but put in place preventative measures as I have outlined in my post

Who agrees?

[Michelle53]

I can share something that happened to me a couple of months back. I do have keypad entry,  with self check-in, so, often, I don't see guests when they arrive. It actually works pretty well for me. But, on this occasion, my guest checked in mid-afternoon, then went out. 

Late that night, I was woken by voices outside (summer, sleeping with an open window).  I heard someone veryifying my address - apparently, just stepped out of an Uber. 

So, I knew the guest had invited friends over.

Well, I was not going to go down there, alone, in pj's, to confront the people. He left very early in the morning, and I saw at least 3 people had spent the night (beds and towels used).

Since I charge a per-guest extra fee, I had to pursue him for the extra money.  I've implemented all kinds of ways to try and verify the actual number of guests staying, but some still slip through, claiming they "didn't know". 

Since he totally ignored all my messages, I googled the guest, and also found he had a criminal record. 

Finally, after some days, Airbnb actually helped to get the money out of him.

My point being - you can't tell, at check-in, if someone is going to obey the house rules. Also, it may not always be safe for a host to have to confront a group of guests,  who may, or may not, have been drinking. 

[Sean433]

@Michelle53 

Another good example whereby had you known this guests name before he booked, before you accepted or before he entered your house, you could have prevented him coming to your home. Luckily nothing bad happened but a lot of hosts would be scared to request for money or kick out the guest for fear of physical retaliation from the guest who now knows where you live. It's so simple, I don't get the reluctance.

[Susan17]

@Sean433 

"And lets say I met him and wanted to refuse him entrance"

If you get such a bad feeling from someone that you want to refuse them entrance, then come hell or high water, that's exactly what you should do. Fear of getting slapped by Airbnb or the threat of a bad review should never, ever, outweigh your gut instincts. It could cost you ten times more in the long run.

It's your property. Only you can protect it properly. Not a whole lot some CX kid in a cubicle, hundreds or thousands of miles away, can do if it all kicks off. 

[Sean433]

@Susan17 

I get it, I would definitely do that but if this can all be prevented with simple policy changes, then that's the answer, not me doing self check-in for every guest.

My point is that if airbnb utilized these very basic and common sense vetting protocols, I, you and everyone else wouldn't have to do this and would have a lot less hassle, stress and better reviews. That's the whole point I am making.

[Rebecca181]

@Sean433 The fact that you (and many of us here) are even having to explain why vetting a prospective guest in the manner you describe is even necessary - especially following the Orinda murders and Chesky's loftily promoted '10 Day Sprint' to amp up 'trust and safety' and clamp down on 'Party Houses' (more Airbnb Newspeak - a brilliant PR move that detracted from the fact that Airbnb has systematically stripped hosts of their ability to properly vet guests) shows how completely whack-a-doodle the entire issue of host & property safety and guest verification has become.

Day 4 following the 10th day of the '10 Day Sprint', and counting...What is Airbnb doing to ensure the safety of host's and their property? 

[Jennifer1421]

@Rebecca181 

If the screenshots I took of the "New and improved" listings (that appeared briefly yesterday) are any indication, part of the plan to combat guest breaking house rules, is to remove any reference to "Rules" entirely.

You can't be in violation of something that doesn't exist.

[Lizzie]

Hello @Jennifer1421,

I'm not sure if you have seen my note on this in your other thread, I've just posted it–so probably not! 🙂  Thanks to you and others spotting this, I just reported this back to the engineers to look into it. 

Once I know more I'll provide you with more of an update. 

Thanks,

Lizzie

[Ute42]

.

@Lizzie 

You wrote to @Jennifer1421  "I'm not sure if you have seen my note on this in your other thread"

I didn't find Your post, can You link it?

[Denis227]

@Sean433 

IMHO; you are putting yourself at great risk by delibérately choosing to rent your house on THE platform which is the LEAST  adapted to your business of renting a party type of  house.  

Isn't there any other website in Toronto where you can rent your house on a short term basis without all the inconvenience of AirBnb ? Even classified ads ? 

In any case , thinking that the Orinda killing can change anything with respect to AirBnb is naïve. But there is one intelligent move which Chesky can still afford to make, while leaving AirBnb as it now stands   : to create a subsidiary company with a totally différent set of rules for reservations,    to cater for the specific needs of guests who want to celebrate in  special party houses. 

It would really be very bad news for me that Chesky makes such a  move since, for the time being,  I don't have to pay a dime in sales  commissions to any platform. But it might be good news in your case, provided the new platform offers more guarantees for the host.  

[Sean433]

@Denis227 

Yes, I am putting a risk just like everyone else but risks can be better managed. I do my best in screening, with security cameras, with specific questions but airbnb also has to do their part. I've crashed some parties early on and they are more prevalent in the winter season which is slow season. In the summer, I say no to almost 100% of local guests because demand is much higher and I have my choice of which guests i accept and they are always the ones who live far away. Aren't you also listing a large home on airbnb?

I am not exclusive to airbnb but since it is the biggest platform, we use it.

[Denis227]

@Sean433 

I'm renting a large party  house ( actually a renovated farm and  barn )  near Paris.  I'm listed on AirBnb with a 2 nights minimum so I don't get many requests given that one night is more than a thousand euro. 

A good number of these requests are from penniless students or even young professionals who  want to stay  just one  night and throw a party all night long. Exactly the kind of request I loathe.  Thru exchanges on AirBnb messaging , they  try to convince me that I should reduce the minimum stay to one night, just to allow them to book my place.   How can they be so stupid not to think that I set a minimum of two nights  to vet these requests out ?   

In France people learn to cheat and lie ( to owners) after school / university  when they start working.  I have never been cheated at by students. When I ask them   : "for what purpose do you want to rent my place ?",  they ( 95 % of the case ,  it is a girl ...)  will always say the truth, whether it is a party , or a studious week-end, or a choral that they want to organize. It would seem to me that their respect for owners ( ie  saying the truth ) has something to do with the respect they have for their teacher, as a figure of authority. 

My main reasons for not being keen to receive bookings from AirBnb customers  are the following  : 

-Lack of any possibility to keep a deposit ....  although I learned last week that several ABB    french hosts are  asking a deposit to their guests upon their arrival. And , according to hosts,  ABB guests do seem to  agree  to pay the deposit, probably because unlike hosts, they ignore that this is forbidden by ABB ( It is true in France paying a damage  deposit has been compulsory during half a century before ABB,  so people of the older generation are VERY used to it ) 

- Lack of any possibility of degressive tariffs. This is a big hindrance to me since all my tariffs are  strongly degressive based on the duration of stay. 

- Lack of direct communication . How do you want to organize a marriage without having a direct contact with the owner ? That's probably why we do get many requests for bridal ceremony and marriage but never thru AirBnb. 

You will be surprised to note that I'm not  upset about the lack of true  vetting procedure during the ABB booking process.  In my case, the rental price is so high  that my customers are selected based on  price. So the current ABB  booking procedure  is not a matter of concern to me : as long as the guy signs my 10 page contract, gives me the name / age / town of residence   of all  of his ( up to 30 ) guests,  and pays the hefty security deposit as requested , I don't care if he has been jailed before, and for what (real or false )  reason.  Martin Luther King has been jailed and Julian Assange as well. 

As one of the leaders of Gilets Jaunes put it earlier this week at an international conference called the Web Summit 2019,  war criminal Tony Blair is free and he will never be harassed by Court.  For those of you who want to listen to these rare minutes of pure grace ( in english of course ) , you can skip the beginning of the video and jump to 05:10 : 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_CZ2t4Bjws

So having spent some time in jail is not a good selection criteria for me !  

[Denis227]

@Sean433 

Actually given the  misfit between AirBnb current  business model and the specifics of renting a party house, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that somewhere  in the world, a startuper  is keeping an eye on Chesky's response to Orinda (and the general problem of party houses), to determine whether he will launch his own start up to help parties book large homes suited for celebrations. 

[Alice595]

@Denis227 @Sean433  A residential house in a populated neighborhood is never suitable for hosting a party by short-term rentals. Neighbors are not happy for any sorts of parties not to mention that parties are held by people who don't live in their neighborhood.

Unless a mansion is a farm and isolated with other neighbors in a distance,  the house party held by short-term rental definitely will disturb neighbors and subsequently the city where the listing is at will ban it from short-term rental.