Paid for cleaning, but got a bad review for not cleaning. WTF????

Илья0
Level 4
Moscow, Russia

Paid for cleaning, but got a bad review for not cleaning. WTF????

For the second time in a row we are having problems with hosts on the issue of cleaning. There was a cleaning fee both times so we did not feel obliged to leave the place spotless and as usual did some stuff that we regard as a nice gesture towards the host, like start the dishwashing machine, take out the garbage etc. We didn't leave piles of garbage in the house etc. And both times the hosts told us that were guilty of leaving the house dirty and untidy. WTF??

 

The first host complained (in a private message) that the house was "very dirty", which could not have been true. We stayed outside most of the time. He also complained that the floor in the bathroom was dirty. That was indeed true, but since there was a cleaning fee we left to the cleaners. The host also mentioned that the house rules "were very clear" on the issue of cleanliness, but there was nothing anywhere: not in the listing and not in the home instructions.

 

So, all in all, we payed for the cleaning but were scolded for leaving the house dirty!

 

The second host complained (in a public review) that we did not show respect for his property. We rented his villa for 1 month for $10K+, ordered cleaning ourselves in the middle of our stay, replaced all kitchen items that were broken (inevitable during a one-month stay of several families in home). When we asked the host why he gave us a bad review, when we payed for the cleaning, she said that we left the house untidy. Meaning we left toys by the pool, didn't return several furniture pieces (not heavy) where they were initialy. The only fair complaint was baby food on the couch, we offered to pay for that.

 

So again, we payed the host to clean and got a bad review for "not tidying up the whole place". Where the fine line between clean and tidy???

Isn't it obvious that if you are renting out your 4-bedroom villa for a month to several families you will have to spend some time/money on cleaning and "tidying up". 

 

Or at least you should clearly state what you expect from your guests and what they should expect from you in terms of cleaning, especially for long rents. 

 

I strongly believe that AirBnB should have a clear policy on cleaning so that everyone is on the same page and would not have their vacation tainted by bullsh*t like this

 

47 Replies 47

@Илья0 That's just how I see it. I look at the cleaning fee as a way of ensuring the place is clean when I arrive. I don't think of it as paying someone to clean up after me. I think that as soon as you get the mindset of "I'm paying her to clean up our mess", then all consideration for the host & for the property is gone. The house is someone's private property, it isn't a hotel & should never be thought of as a hotel. It isn't a third party paid employee doing the cleaning, it's the owner. Maybe it would help if you put yourself in her position & try to imagine how you would feel if your own house were left in that same state by strangers? It doesn't matter if you are paying a cleaning fee - it just comes down to common courtesy and consideration. I completely understand your frustration, it was a month long stay and you had children - personally, I would cut you some slack for that, but not every host will.

 

Maybe one of the hosts was extra picky & it's not a pattern? You're the only one who knows the answer to that. Hosts expect a certain amount of mess & disarray - I certainly don't expect my guests to spend hours cleaning before they leave - but I expect all the dirty dishes, pots & pans to be in the dishwasher, not left out on the stove, not left on the table. I expect there will be hair and maybe bits of toilet paper etc. on the bathroom floor, but I don't expect mud or dirt. I expect there will be spots on all the mirrors, toothpaste on all the bathroom counter tops, and dirty toilets. I expect there will be crumbs on the furniture, maybe stains too, and crumbs on the floors, tables and kitchen counter top, but I don't expect dried-on clumps of food on the counter tops or the stove top. I expect crumbs or food residue in the microwave, crumbs in the toaster oven, and that the coffee pot might have coffee in it. I expect the used towels to be in the hampers and that some will have stains. I expect the beds will be unmade and there may be stains on the sheets. If children were there, I expect there will be fingerprints on everything - the TV, coffee tables, on the doors, on all the glass surfaces, on the walls, there may be dings in the walls from toys. I expect bits of trees/pine needles to have been tracked in from outside but no mud or dirt beyond the front door entry mat because I expect people to be considerate and take off their shoes so they don't track mud or dirt in. I don't think my standards are unreasonably high. Hope that helps.

 

I wish you the best of luck with all your future Airbnb stays - it can only get better for you & it will! - Karen

 

 

 

Being in Seattle, I actually tell guests NOT to take out the garbage because our recycling & compost system is apparently pretty complicated.  Others may disagree, but even with very clear, simple, color-coded instructions posted in the kitchen, my husband and I were doing WAY too much dumpster diving to get things into the correct bins.  

@April--Mike--And-Maggie0 I totally know what you mean!!! Korea also has a fairly complicated waste disposal & recycling system. I explain to guests how it's done (as simply as possible), but then ask guests to just rinse and put everything in a large plastic bag so that Henry (or I) can do the sorting properly - and we usually get a big sigh and smile of relief 🙂 

 

FYI - I also have these 2 articles printed out for guests, if they are interested in understanding how it's done. 

http://www.korea4expats.com/article-waste-disposal-recycling-korea.html

https://www.10mag.com/your-complete-guide-to-garbage-disposal-in-south-korea/

 

Christian65
Level 10
Copenhagen, Denmark

I don't expect people to clean the place but tidy up after them selves. Most decent people do that. At least that's my experience except from 1 Russian couple who left dishes, trashed the place and moved furniture around. Nevertheless, I think you should be respectful of another person's private home and the way to show that respect, you tidy up and leave the place in good order.

 

I hardly think the vast majority expect people to scrub tiles and floors but just use their common decency.

 

If you have 2 different people saying the same thing to you @Илья0 there might be an issue with the way you leave the homes.

 

The review left:

"They where very nice people. They rented our house for one month. unfortunately they didn't tidy up before they left and their standards on how to take care of someone else's property is much below our standard"

 

Response from Илья:

Sorry to hear that. We tried our best, but it turns out that we had a different understanding of the cleaning fee

 

I don't see a cleaning fee on the listing. Has it been removed?

 

If there's a vacuum in the place I rent, I use it. I even run surfaces over with a cloth if there are any at hand and of course the dishes are done. I empty garbage bins and take them out and empty the fridge. It all can be done within 20 minutes when you're two people and it show a great deal of respect to the owner - which I find highly important now that you are staying in a private home.

Yes, we are paying but you might as well book a hotel if paid housekeeping is so important to you.

@Christian65

Thanks for your answer.

As I already mentioned. I didn't have a problem with reviews until I started travelling with kids and renting large homes for long periods of time. It turns out that hosts expect much more than I. That doesn't mean I am slob. That only means what it means.

 

As the cleaning fees: one host  has a cleaning fee officialy, the other includes it the rent.

 

And we are not two people. We're a family with two baby twins and family&friends (also with kids) renting a big house. When we travelled only the two of us, we couldn't have made much of mess if we tried, we did basic stuff (even with the cleaning fee) and everyone was happy.

 

So it's not like i get 10/10 bad reviews and complaining about it. I'm in a new situation, which raises questions about the clarity of rules (mostly unstated rules) and approaches.

 

As for "staying in a private home". Hosts are in the hospitality business, not couchsurfing. They compete directly with hotels. Hotels don't charge extra for cleaning by the way. They have very clear rules on that. If hosts do charge for cleaning then they should at least clarify what constitutes cleaning.

 

They also should realise that there are different people, different stays, different economics in renting out. Its a business not a sleepover

 

 

I think people are very aware that its all a business and you're right, hotels don't require a cleaning fee. Its in the price that is more often double the price for what you can get an Airbnb for. 

That being said you're right that people are different but as a host you look a the norm and what people do most when you give reviews afterwards and of course it will stand out if most clean and tidy up after them selves and you don't. And that might be your answer to your original question. Maybe its a cultural thing @Илья0?

I have mostly Europeans and many Americans and they don't scrub floors but they do a light cleaning even though it's not directly stated in my listing or house rules.

But I agree that if its specified, it would be far easier to know the would be expected. 

 

 

Edited: to include direct reply to poster.

@Илья0 Airbnb state simply on the site 'Cleaning fees help hosts account for extra expenses they have getting their listing ready before guests arrive or after guests depart.'

 

Looking at the listing in question the host (in her historical reviews to visitors) seems very focused on receiving back the property in good condition and regularly judges and mentions this in all her posted reviews. The host took umbrage at the condition of the house after the departure of the poster with enough indignation to publish this in her review.

 

It seems to be the heart of the matter here isn't the cleaning fee, but the respectful use of a property.

You can turn the discussion toward a philosophical question on what is repectfulness, however the host clearly thinks you are out of kilter with what she expects and how previous visitors have behaved so perhaps it would give you more benefit to reflect on that.

@Elena87

Exactly. That is why for the question to be concrete and not philosophical there're should be clear rules on cleaning, tidying, respecting, whatever you call it. 

 

Have the previous guests stayed a month being 8-10 adults and 3 babies? or was it just a weekend for two. We don't know. Without clear rules we are guided by our expectations. Her expectations reflect her experience, and my expectations reflect mine. My guess is that she doesn't have a lot of experience in hosting a lot of people for a long period of time. Because she was expecting the next guest at 4pm on the day of our checkout. I remember thinking that this is a risky move considering her house was inhabited by a lot of people for a month. Whatever her expectations are it is wiser to leave a full day of cleaning for a property like that.

 

So probably its a lesson for both her and me

@Christian65

 

Pricing is not a valid argument. I payed the price the host was asking and this was for a 1-month in a 4-bedroom villa near Saint Tropez. So it's not like I took advantage of them. And the cleaning was announced in the price, just like in a hotel. Although I would have paid extra, that's not the point.

 

The point is: do you clean and tidy up in a hotel? No, I bet you don't. Do you clean and tidy up a villa that hosts make a business of (they don't live there)? Yes, light cleaning, out of courtesy. But its their job as a business to maintain their property in order. It shouldn't matter to me if its a hotel or a private villa.

 

We're not talking about someone trying to make a living out of renting out his only property to uncultural Russians who destroy the place. We're talking about people that are really competing with hotels. They rent out their second or third million dollar villas for 10K+ dollars per month, say that the cleaning is included, do not specify what it means and then complain that they had to clean the whole day.

 

So it's not a cultural thing, it's an issue of a host being professinal and spending an extra $150 on professional cleaning (still leaving the host with a 10K+ margin)

 

I guess the only cultural thing here is asking if its a cultural thing

 

Lisa658
Level 10
Hervey Bay, Australia

Hi @Илья0

 

Another point to note is that AirBnB does not have a function to set up separate pricing for a one night stay.  It is more expensive for a host to cater to one night as opposed to two or more nights.  The only way to create a surcharge for a one night stay is to add a cleaning fee.

 

For example if the host has to pay $60 for cleaning, it is really only $30 per night for a 2 night stay.  Some hosts include the cleaning in their rate and add the $30 as a cleaning fee so that the one night guests pay the full cost of cleaning.

 

We just include the cleaning fee in the rate and don't offer one night stays as it is too complicated to work out the fairest surcharge as every guest inevitably has to pay it rather than just the one night stays.

 

Sometimes the cleaning fee is nominated as a way to pay a co-host as the funds can be directed to their account directly by AirBnB so I would not put too much stock in what the cleaning fee is for.  No matter what the charge is, there is a standard that hosts expect guests to meet. 

 

It sounds to me like the issue is the children.  If they are infants travelling free and are creating an excessive amount of cleaning with no compensation to the host, this is not a recipe for a good review.  Also, when you travel with friends, you must ensure that they also leave their area tidy if the booking is under your name.  

 

A standard clean to me means that everything is already put back where it belongs, all the dishes are done and put away or the dishwasher is running, the garbage has been collected and disposed of and any excessive spills or sand or mess are tidied up.  You could put all the towels in the shower or bathtub, pull the covers up on the beds and leave a little thank you note.  Any gesture of respect for the person doing the cleaning will be appreciated!

 

Lisa 

Martine-0
Level 2
Lauderhill, FL

If you are a clean person you will never get a bad review. If you are a dirty person you will get a bad review. Cleaning fee covers the cleaning and SANITIZING that is involved after the client leaves including trash removal, and restocking toiletries. I think it's common sense to leave the place exactly how you left it unless you are a slob. Would you give a good rating if you came to the room and it was left filthy? Common sense and respect is needed in such matters.

Andy358
Level 3
Oxford, United Kingdom

I stayed in an entire home (so not a private home but a home bought for investment).  There was a cleaning fee. I left it like I would a hotel.  That is towels on the bathroom floor, water glass left on the table.  A chair moved from here to there.  Rubbish in the kitchen bin.  Not a mess, we tidied up and washed up, but certainly didn't clean up, except for the cereal which we spilled over the kitchen counter.  There was a cleaning fee to cover these costs.  I was given an awful and unjustifed review.

 

Anyway, the place would need to be cleaned before the next guest arrives (wouldn't it?). Just as in a hotel, even if a guest washes their coffee cups, the staff still needs to wash it again with the proper cleaning materials.  Even if a pillow looks like it wasn't used, the pillow case is still changed.  Even if a carpet looks clean, it will be vacuumed again to pick up the dust and the hidden toe nail clipping.

 

Now I am hosting - in my private home - and I charge a nominal cleaning fee for the cost of laundering the linen.  I ask people to leave the kitchen as they found it and would presume they washed up as well as I would (I think you can probably tell by the type of guest you have that maybe you want to give the cutlery another clean), just as in some low star hotels or shared office space, you may want to rinse the glass before using it.  I don't mind if they empty the kitchen bin, but don't expect it, nor that they mop the floor, vacuum the carpet, nor want them to mess with my vacuum.  even if the kitchen counter was left tidy, it would still have a daily clean. So far I have been amazed at how clean my guests are and not really using the communal space as much as they could, not even eating the fruit I leave out.  I am sure in time, something will be different.  My offer is for a fully serviced place.  It is reflected in the price.  I am in the hospitality industry.  I just think some people aren't cut out for hospitality and that is something you have to consider on airbnb, both when you are renting, and when you set out as a host.  Like anything, you have to work hard to earn money.  Now I understand there are other reasons to hosting, but you still have to take the rough with the smooth.

 

To sum up, if Sasha left baby sick on the sofa in my private home, I would hope he attempt a good job of cleaning up and told me straight away, and we would clean it up together while it was fresh.  If he left the entire mess on a business rent, I would charge and mention they weren't the cleanest of house guests, but if he had attempted to clean it and left a stain, I would have to expect that as part of the business, it's part of accepting paying guests and allowing infants to stay. 

 

In a hotel, we have had guests who spilled coffee on the sheets, apologise profusely and offer to pay for the linen; you don't mind cleaning up after them.  Then you have others that spill water (or worse) on the mattress and don't tell you.  Maybe hours later the room is cleaned and we have to go into over drive, changing the mattress, closing the room off, etc, etc.  If we are told at the time, the systems can be in place immediately.  Being told in advance helps so much, not least by taking the surprise away.  Even leaving a soaking wet towel on a pillow means the pillow needs to be exchanged.  For this reason my house rules ask that towels are left in the bathroom, not because I want the guest to tidy up, but it makes the whole cleaning process without extra surprises. I ask them to leave the duvet on the bed, it means the guest is less likely to leave any lost property behind; my school teacher always told us, 'a tidy desk is a tidy mind'.

 

If a baby was sick in a department store, you would hope the parents would tell a staff member and make an effort of cleaning up, but that the staff would say, 'don't worry, accidents happen, continue shopping and spending money', then close the area off and fetch a mop and bucket.  That is the service industry.

Mei-Yu0
Level 3
Nice, France

Илья  Have you taken into consideration the amount of clean up fee you had pay?  I ask for 30€ as clean up fee.  I state clearly that <<only 1 hour of cleaning is included in the fee, the rest of it is for taking care of the towels and the bed linen.  If the condition of my Airbnb apartment left by the guests necessites more than one hour's cleaning up, a supplement of 15€/hour will have to be paid by the guests.>>  I think it is fair to estimate the amount of time necessary for cleaning up after your stay and the amount of clean up fee you've paid even though it is not stated clearly how many hours' housework is included in the fee.

Russell49
Level 10
Katoomba, Australia

Each host can choose to add a cleaning fee. As a courtesy, you as a guest should keep the room clean and show you are worthy of being an AirBnB guest. Hosts don't want pigs. Likewise, when hosts leave reviews the guests are rated on cleanliness. Remember, you are staying at someone else's house NOT your own so treat it accordingly with respect. This is why you pay less than a hotel, but probably receive more perks than one as well!

Eve154
Level 2
Bexhill, United Kingdom

The checkout time was early and I left my plate and cup in the sink. I took out the rubbish and made the beds neat. The host had left every drawer stuffed full of what looked like jumble sale clothes and I mean every drawer. The cabinet was full of folders and papers of a really personal nature going by the heading on a medical report I didn't read. There were kitsch pink delicate ornaments all over bedroom number two. It looked like the owners had just popped out. It would appear that they took no pride in their own place. I didn't leave a review because I honestly didn't know what to say. There was a guest book there and no one else commented on the dreadful clutter. I have 5 star reviews as a guest from past stays in other AirBnBs. It was a very odd experience.