Publicity or permission issues ?

Laura2592
Level 10
Frederick, MD

Publicity or permission issues ?

Yesterday I was sent a link from a friend to an article about my Airbnb by a travel writer.  As far as I know this person has not been a guest.  Its a flattering little write up on a blog that's pretty popular.  All the pictures were taken directly from my listing. 

 

I had no awareness that this might happen...no one reached out to ask us if we would be interested in having this story if if they can use our photos.  We had gotten several bookings in the past week since this appeared....also some very strange inquiries because the price he quoted is not the price for every night as we use a peak demand pricing tool. Some folks demanded the price in the article. 

 

My husband has a legal background and is upset that we were not informed this was happening.  I'm happy for the additional exposure but it does seem a bit strange not to give us a heads up. What are your thoughts? Anyone have anything like this happen?

31 Replies 31
Ann72
Level 10
New York, NY

Hang on!  @Emilia42's post brings this to a new level.  If the content appears through the arrangement described in that email, this clause from the above - "sub-licensable and transferable" - means hosts would have no rights at all.

 

But if there are bloggers who actually take Airbnb up on this, they're motivated by that 30% to push the content, which in turn could increase bookings.  So not a terrible thing, but - no rights or claim on use of content, even if the text is copied exactly and the photographs you or a photographer took are lifted directly.

 

@Lawrene0 - how hard is it to get things right?  Definitely ask for corrections - if they run them it's just more publicity so win/win.

Huma0
Level 10
London, United Kingdom

@Ann72 

 

I suspect you are right.

 

However, as @Laura2592 hired a professional photographer herself rather than using one of Airbnb's ones, there could be copyright issues for her where the photographer is concerned. If she paid a fee to use those images solely on her listing and didn't buy any rights to them, the photographer could have a case.

 

This is an issue because it seems we sign away rights to those images when we post them on Airbnb and Airbnb is now giving third parties the rights to use them, but what happens when it is the photographer who owns the rights and that photographer did not agree to them being used elsewhere?

 

I was thinking of paying a photographer to come and take some new pics of my place as there have been upgrades since the Airbnb photographer came, but now I will have to bear this in mind...

@Huma0  Absolutely, but since @Laura2592 didn't grant permission, the photographer would have a case not with her but with the blogger.  And possibly with Airbnb, if the blogger did this post with the deal @Emilia42 displayed in the email.  Airbnb's terms say that anyone who thinks their copyright is infringed can send a take down notice.  The relevant wording is "alleged copyright infringements taking place on or through the Site..."  

https://www.airbnb.com/terms/copyright_policy

 

For your photographs, if there's an Instagrammer whose work you like, you could have them come stay and take photographs.  I've been approached by a couple and the deal was they would give me, in exchange for the stay, 25 hi-res photos I could use on any booking site or in publicizing or marketing the listing.  Appropriate credit where possible.  All in writing, of course!  🙂

Huma0
Level 10
London, United Kingdom

@Ann72 

 

True, but if @Laura2592 signed the T&Cs allowing Airbnb to use the images however they see fit, and that turns out to mean they can let other people use them elsewhere, then she may have breached her agreement with the photographer. Hopefully, if the photographer took real issue with it and was successful having the photos removed from the third party site, that would be the end of it. However, how likely would that be given that CS doesn't even seem to respond to urgent issues these days. Maybe they would respond to a legal threat though...

 

Anyway, that's all hypothetical as I am sure it is unlikely in this case. I was just wondering how it would work when things go wrong, as you're an expert in this area.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, that is certainly one way to go and I do know some influencers who take great photos,  but I also know a lot of photographers through my work. They are not location photographers per se, but some of them might be up to the job and they are more likely to have the wide angled lenses etc to take full room shots. I can also offer my place as a shoot location as a barter, but I'm happy to pay someone too. I'm thinking more and more that it would be better to pay for the rights to the photos if that's affordable.

@Huma0  Gotcha.  If the photographer agreed to the use of the photos on Airbnb, he/she tacitly agreed to the Airbnb terms and conditions governing that use.

 

You've got great options for having the place photographed.  Interiors photographers are key.  One of mine has been a shoot stylist and photographer for years.  They all had that all-essential lens!  Makes all the difference.

Huma0
Level 10
London, United Kingdom

@Ann72 

 

I don't know any interiors photographer personally (except the ones Airbnb initially sent round and who knows if they even live in London anymore) but I am sure I could find one with my contacts. The ones I know are not interiors photographers but I'm pretty sure they would all have wide-angled lenses and they are so skilled in other areas, but they are also so top notch that they would be soooo expensive. I would definitely have to ask for 'mates' rates'!

Huma0
Level 10
London, United Kingdom

@Ann72 

 

Also, on a similar subject, I was interviewed a couple of times by Airbnb for the newsletter/CC. One time it was really straightforward because the lovely  @Lizzie took care of it all. Unfortunately, the second time, it was not such a great experience.

 

I did the telephone interview (all good) and then Airbnb marketing asked me if they could shoot a quick portrait to go with it at my house. Okay. Well, that snowballed into the photographer also taking photos of my whole house, photos of me in my in the local area, my local pub etc. etc. plus sending another person round to shoot videos of me for a marketing campaign for something else entirely. 

 

This ended up taking up almost an entire day (11am to 6pm, but would have been longer if it hadn't gotten dark at that point) and meant I had to clean late into the night to prep for the next guests (I was unable to finish cleaning before because the photographer wanted to come early). Marketing wanted the place to be empty of guests and said they would pay my room rate, but never did.

 

I asked for copies of the photos to use on my listing and was told I could not have them due to the photographer's rights. Turns out that the photographer didn't own the rights, Airbnb did, so they lied about that. 

 

Not only did they take up a day of my time and bookings and not even let me use a single photo on my listings, but I never saw those photos or videos used for the purposes that I was led to believe, except one on the interview, which I only saw because a friend spotted it. They did not even have the courtesy to inform me when things were published, as requested.

 

So, Airbnb have a whole load of photos and videos of me and my home which they are free to use for whatever marketing purposes they choose, without any compensation or benefit to me.

 

Around the same time, my request for a professional photoshoot as a Superhost bonus (which CS had repeatedly told me I was entitled to but couldn't redeem due to some technical error) was denied.

 

I was not best pleased. In hindsight, I would never agree to such a thing again. Either pay me or give me the rights to use the photos.

@Huma0  What an exhausting, frustrating, and disappointing experience!  And didn't people post here that when they were putting listings on Plus, the hosts paid for the photos and then were not allowed to use them in any way?

 

I also put in the request to get professional photography, but they never found anyone in Maine to do it.  That didn't really surprise me 🙂

 

Huma0
Level 10
London, United Kingdom

@Ann72 

 

I can't remember that RE Plus, but it sound about right. I do remember a lot of Plus hosts saying that, although they had paid for them, they had no say in which of the photos were chosen for the listing and had no access to the others. So, even if they loved a photo that was taken and that they paid for, they had no rights to it.

 

Airbnb would probably say that the host paid for the application fee or for the whole package, not specifically for the photos. I am sure they would have had something in their T&Cs to get around it.

 

My disappointment with the Airbnb photography session was that it was promised as a Superhost bonus and there was no mention that a host who had one years before would not be eligible. Even CS were not aware of this as they kept telling me that the reason I couldn't claim it must be a technical glitch and not to worry because they would sort it out.

 

Eventually, they came back saying because I had one in 2016, I was not entitled to another because they were 'focusing on new hosts', which in itself makes no sense. If that was the case, why had they discontinued the free photoshoot that they used to offer new hosts and instead offer it as a Superhost bonus, i.e. to hosts that were no longer new?

 

There must have been other hosts who complained about this misleading marketing because I have noticed that since then, they changed some of the wording about this and it no longer appears as an option on my menu of rewards.

Kelly149
Level 10
Austin, TX

had this happen once (kind of), it was Vrbo who put us on a morning news show (local!). No notice, no permission & not a good job featuring details correctly (10 guests - yes, but for extra $$, $99 - yes, but just on Tuesdays...)

I only knew about it bc a friend had that channel on at the time & dvr’d it

I’d tell the blogger to correct or retract, bc people who look you up expecting xyz when you actually offer pdq won’t be good traffic anyway

Huma0
Level 10
London, United Kingdom

I once accidentally came through a post about my house on a very well known, very popular interiors blog. The information and images were all from the site of a location agency I had signed up with. As the agency had sent a photographer, I had no issues with it. If the blogger had broken any copyright laws, it was up to the agency to take it up with them but, as the agency was mentioned, I assume they had given permission. Who knows...

 

Another time, I had an 'influencer' stay. She was constantly taking photos and filming for her social media account. She never asked permission. Whatever, that was fine. Where I drew the line was saying no her filming me - something she was very keen to do.

 

There's no difference between that and any other guest doing it, right? She just happened to be more popular on social media and therefore made money from it. One could see it as free publicity (providing your listing is linked, which I don't think it was in this case).

 

OR, your could see it this way. A professional influencer is making money from brands because they have a lot of followers, but they need generate a lot of content to keep their following. They are generating some of this content (and therefore, indirectly, some of their income) from MY PROPERTY - something they did not pay me for. This lady paid to stay at my place, not to use it for any professional capacity, and did not think to ask my permission. I am sure it is probably legal, but is it okay?

Inna22
Level 10
Chicago, IL

An influencer asked to use my house for a party and in return she said she would post links.  That is a total opposite of publicity I want. I said no to both. I am thinking I would not mind a nice article about my place of it brought real reservations 

Hello,

 

I am an Australian based Host and a regular guest and full-time travel writer/blogger. I am also a foundation member of the new Associate's Program as it was tested on Australia first before being rolled out across the world in June.

I also admin a Facebook group with over 200 Program users as we have had many issues and zero support from Airbnb. We don't have a community centre, a contact form, nothing, although I have been able to organise a Zoom meeting with them on Thursday.

One of the biggest issues we are having is with photos. It's very hard to sell a product no-one can see and on social media especially it is critical. Some of us are 'influencers' but many are editors of established travel websites with high ranking articles that could send you bookings for years!

I know as a host I would happily take as much free publicity as I can get, especially right now, although I do see your point about Professional Photographers and who actually owns the photos. I have a feeling Airbnb's very broad T&Cs may well cover this though. Will raise it with them.

I completely agree that all information should be accurate and will pass this on too. Personally I don't mention price or anything that is likely to fluctuate.

By the way, anyone can join this program. The link is at the bottom of every Airbnb page!

https://www.airbnb.com.au/associates

@Laura2592 @Inna22 @Huma0 @Ann72 @Kelly149 

Huma0
Level 10
London, United Kingdom

@Sandra245 

 

I have never understood why Airbnb does not have functionality to let us post images of our listings to social media. It makes little sense for a supposedly innovative tech company that is so into marketing.

 

The only guess is that it's to do with permissions, but:

 

1. Having spoken to Airbnb photographers about this, it seems that Airbnb, not the photographer, owns the rights to the photos. Whether Airbnb has bought those rights on the basis that the images will only be used on the Airbnb site and marketing channels, I do not know.

 

2. I work with many, many photographers and they have no problem with people posting images on social media (it's the norm these days) providing they are tagged. So, if we credit Airbnb and/or the photographer (whichever owns the rights), then I don't see why it is a problem.

 

I have posted images from my listings on Facebook by including the link, but it would be good to be able to also directly post them to Instagram, Pinterest etc. Of course, one can simply save the image and then upload it to these sites, but it would be helpful if we could do it instantly from the Airbnb site.

Thanks for posting @Sandra245 and nice to meet you.  I'm not quite clear on everything you write - do you mean that you've become an associate with explicit permission to embed Airbnb listings in blogs, articles, or other sites, but that you have no access to the photographs of the embedded listings?  

 

If true, the 30% come-on lures people in, then ties their hands.  But the internet perceives additional Airbnb links, which is a search-optimization advantage to Airbnb over its competitors?

 

I'd be interested to see a screenshot of an associate's post.  A link would also be fine.  I'm just very curious how easily the post would lead to bookings that would be an advantage to both the associate and the host.  From what you say - not so much 🙂