Terms of Service - update

[Ryan111]

The new terms of servic updates are too heavy handed and too much in favor of airbnb but I have no way to communicate with or log into my account and the reservations previously booked under old terms of services without agreeing to the new terms of service.  I am not sure of the legality of this method as those reservations were confirmed under past terms with airbnb and this seems like illegally forcing all hosts (and all reservations) to abide by the updated terms.  I am posting this in objection to the changes, which continue to be extremely host unfriendly.  Arbitration, lack of insurance, removal of the ability for a class action lawsuit and more don't create a friendly "vibe" with airbnb and can put us (hosts) at odds with the service and the site in ways that give airbnb a meaningful advantage.  I am writing this to voice my concern at the changes and my disagreement with the current changes to the terms of service.  We have come a long way from that original couch.  (and in an ironic move, I can't even post this to the forum without agreeing to the new terms)

[Ryan111]

What do you mean?  How did I rebook it?  It was weird and not sure how it happened, but I sent a special offer which they said they couldn't see.  Then somehow they booked it.  

[Anna446]

@Deborah0: I don't remember seeing this about having to pay for travelers, that would be a gross imposition.  What travel issues for instance, as if they die, or get into a car crash? What travel issues would render you having to pay for a hotel, and not let them stay in your property. I think that this is not clear. Where did you find this please?

[Deborah1]

These terms and conditions govern Airbnb’s Guest Refund Policy (the “Guest Refund Policy”) available to Guests who book and pay for an Accommodation listed by a Host through the Airbnb Site or Application (the “Platform") and suffer a Travel Issue and the obligations of the Host associated with the Guest Refund Policy. All capitalized terms shall have the meaning set forth in the Airbnb Terms of Service or Payments Terms of Service unless otherwise defined in this Guest Refund Policy.



1. Travel Issue. A “Travel Issue” means any one of the following:
(a) the Host of the Accommodation (i) cancels a reservation shortly before the scheduled start of the reservation, or (ii) fails to provide the Guest with the reasonable ability to access the Accommodation (e.g., by providing the keys and/or a security code).
(b) the description of the Accommodation in the Listing is materially inaccurate with respect to:
(i) the size of the Accommodation (e.g., number and size of the bedroom, bathroom and/or kitchen or other rooms),
(ii) whether the reservation for the Accommodation is for a private room or shared room, and whether another party, including the Host, is staying at the Accommodation during the reservation,
(iii) special amenities or features represented in the Listing are not provided or do not function, such as decks, pools, hot tubs, bathrooms (toilet/shower/bathtub), kitchen (sink/stove/refrigerator or major other appliances), and electrical, heating or air condition systems, or
(iv) the physical location of the Accommodation (proximity).
(c) at the start of the Guest’s reservation, the Accommodation: (i) is not generally clean and sanitary (ii) contains safety or health hazards that would be reasonably expected to adversely affect the Guest’s stay at the Accommodation in Airbnb’s judgment, (iii) does not contain clean bedding and bathroom towels available for the Guest’s use, or (iv) has vermin or contains pets not disclosed on the Listing.



2. The Guest Refund Policy. If you are a Guest and suffer a Travel Issue, we agree, at our discretion, to either (i) reimburse you up to the amount paid by you through the Platform, as determined by Airbnb in our discretion, depending on the nature of the Travel Issue suffered or (ii) use our reasonable efforts to find and book you another Accommodation for any unused nights left in your reservation which in our determination is reasonably comparable to the Accommodation described in your original reservation in terms of size, rooms, features and quality. All determinations of Airbnb with respect to the Guest Refund Policy, including without limitation the size of any refund, shall be final and binding on the Guests and Hosts.



3. Conditions to Claim a Travel Issue. Only a Guest may submit a claim for a Travel Issue. If you are a Guest, in order to submit a valid claim for a Travel Issue and receive the benefits with respect to your reservation, you are required to meet each of the following conditions:
(a) you must bring the Travel Issue to our attention in writing (airbnb.com/contact) or via telephone and provide us with information (including photographs or other evidence) about the Accommodation and the circumstances of the Travel Issue within 24 hours after the start of your reservation, and must respond to any requests by us for additional information or cooperation on the Travel Issue;
(b) you must not have directly or indirectly caused the Travel Issue (through your action, omission or negligence); and
(c) you must have used reasonable efforts to try to remedy the circumstances of the Travel Issue with the Host prior to making a claim for a Travel Issue.



4. Minimum Quality Standards, Host Responsibilities and Reimbursement to Guest. If you are a Host, you are responsible for ensuring that the Accommodations you list on the Platform meet minimum quality standards regarding access, adequacy of the description on the Platform, safety, cleanliness, and do not present a Guest with Travel Issues. During the 24-hour period following the Guest’s check-in, Hosts should be available, or make a third-party available, in order to try, in good faith, to resolve Guest issues.
If you are a Host, and if (a) Airbnb determines that a Guest has suffered a Travel Issue related to an Accommodation listed by you and (b) Airbnb either reimburses that Guest any amount up to the amount paid by the Guest through the Platform for the Accommodation or provides an alternative Accommodation to the Guest, you agree to reimburse Airbnb up to the amount paid by Airbnb within 30 days of Airbnb’s request. All determinations of Airbnb with respect to the Guest Refund Policy, including without limitation the size of any refund to the Guest, shall be final and binding on the Guests and Hosts. You also agree that in order for you to reimburse Airbnb up to the amount paid by Airbnb, Airbnb may off-set or reduce any amounts owed by Airbnb to you by this amount. If the Guest remains for part or all of the stay despite the Travel Issue, the Guest will receive a refund that will reduce the amount of the Accommodation Fees ultimately paid to you. If the Guest is relocated to an alternative Accommodation, you may lose part or all of the Accommodation Fee payment for the booking and you may be responsible for reasonable additional costs incurred to relocate the Guest to the alternative Accommodation.
The rights of the Guests under the Guest Refund Policy supersede the cancellation policy established by a Host. If you as a Host dispute the Travel Issue you may notify us in writing (airbnb.com/contact) or via telephone and provide us with information (including photographs or other evidence) disputing the claims regarding the Travel Issue, provided you must have used reasonable and good faith efforts to try to remedy the Travel Issue with the Guest prior to disputing the Travel Issue claim. You agree that all determinations of Airbnb with respect to the Travel Issue shall be final and binding on the Guests and Hosts regardless of your submission of a dispute against such Travel Issue. In the event of one or more Travel Issues, Airbnb, in its discretion, may elect to take additional actions. These actions include, but are not limited to, negatively affecting your Listing ranking, automated reviews indicating Travel Issues, cancelling future bookings, suspending or removing the Listing of the Accommodation or imposing penalties or fees for the administrative burden associated with the Travel Issues.

[Deborah1]

I also feel it is unfair to allow me no time to read and agree to the terms. You post them on the 7th and I have to agree to them on the 7th if I want access to my reservations! Really???

[Robin4]

@Deborah1....May be nothing in it but, I have just been told by a Facebook friend in judicial circles that there is a legal case being heard at the moment which may have ramifications for class actions against lettings agents who misrepresent either by action or inuendo their scope of activity.

This could have something to do with this current round of 'butt preservation'!

I will try to find out more and post when information becomes available!

Cheers.....Rob

[Robin4]

The interesting thing for me was, this 'document' has no doubt been under consideration as to its clauses and the wording for some time, so I am quite sure the founders of the business would have been well aware of the scope and contents of this 'terms of service' before the recent much publicised Q&A forum.

Just goes to show 'talk really is cheap'.....doesn't it!

Cheers.....Rob

[Dede0]

While we've had a truly great (and profitable) experience with AirBnB, and virtually no problematic guests, we can now see those problems ahead of us, given the most recent TOS changes from AirBnB, and their increasingly weak support of host claims. (Reading the new TOS was a long bit of work, but read them, we did, start to finish.) So, it's likely that we'll be moving off the AirBnB platform in the next 3-4 months. VRBO, possibly, or simply back to a standard leasing model. Protect your ass all you want, AirBnB; just don't expect us to stick around to make you money while you do that...

And what's up with the super-fuzzy new AirbnbCitizen.com website and the message from Chris Lahane announcing it? What about it matters at all to most hosts? I honestly couldn't figure out why they even sent that message or why I should care about anything on that website. Looks like pure propaganda to me, ala Uber's constant BS. Why should ANY host care about the new website? Why even try to cajole us into participating? Instead, how about listening to our concerns, and going at least half the distance toward supporting hosts when we make (documented) claims against problematic, scamming guests? Who makes the money for you, AirBnB? If the hosts weren't working their asses off, you wouldn't make a single dime.

[Deborah1]

very well put! I had not heard of that web site. I looked at it. I don't get it. Why, oh why, do they keep trying to new things when they can not get the basics right?

[Dede0]

@Deborah1 That new website is, quite simply, pre-emptive legalese BS. It's a front. A shill.

[Ange2]

@Dede0   I was wondering when the term "movement" would rear its head and there it is on the Citizen website:

" the growing home sharing movement".  Plus, the word 'Citizen' in contexts such as these always brings 'Nineteen Eighty-Four' to my mind.

[Anna446]

@Dede0:

What do you mean scamming guests? what did they do that they scammed you?

[Ange2]

I scanned the new terms and from what I can see they are presenting in writing what they have been practising for a long time. Airbnb default protection is for the guest and Airbnb.  The host?

[Susan285]

Hi,

I am hosting on airbnb since 3 years, I am a (proud) superhost and I never had to contact airbnb due to any problems.

(That is also thanks to the initial support groups we had (now community) where I could learn a lot and read fun stories.)

I had so far very good experiences with all our guests. 

BUT I jut recently started to DISLIKE airbnb!

Not because of bad experiences with guest or the system.

It's because Airbnb headquater has totally become a money making machine and the cool community driven sharing economy fairy tale is dead.

1) it started with new cancellation terms - they were not even announced to host, I had to find out myself! The explanation came later. If you want your old cancellation terms you pay more fee. Not even a hotel allows cancellation until 1 day before and refunds 100%!

2) They made most listings invisible by adding the "Instant booking" filter. So hosts are forced to accept Instant Booking if they want to be on the map!

3) Terms of Service - I have to accept to access my account?! I can't even come here to check what other hosts say about it?! I hate that king of treatment.

4) If you change terms than EXPLAIN WHAT you have changed and don't waste my time to read all the text to find out about it.

BTW, the new website looks very messy, not cool.

I provided great experience to my guest because liked it, it was fun, I like to see happy people, and that guest like my village and my apartment. And it was exciting to get reviews by the guest. (100% 5 STAR reviews over 3 years!)

Now the first guest didn't care to write a review.

A sign of change - for me.

Airbnb has become a mass product now, nothing better than booking.com

It is the first time I am thinking of actually using booking.com

Oh, and I incresed my prices because I am going to let the guest pay for the increased fees.

And if the new crowd doesn't clean up as the original airbnb traveler had, I am also going to charge cleaning fee. And no more goodies... And if other hosts wake up, airbnb's new strategy will loose on the long run.

End of rant.

PS: how can I open my own discussion?

[Ryan111]

All good info!  You can start a new thread on the home page of the community hosting section.  

I wonder when they will engage the hosts on the instant booking issue.  Since the change, our bookings/requests have plummetted by about 90% despite an average fuve star rating and superhost status.  I prefer to vet who is staying in our house as it is not a hotel.  I wouldn't mind it being a filter option but it forces you to say yes on the initial booking page.  When we first started hosting years ago, I remember airbnb constantly reaching out to engage us on our thoughts, now they have become a corportate entity at odds with the way that their hosts want to use the service.  The barrier to entry for sites like this is fairly low and I wouldn't be surprised if other services to take away business from airbnb.  I have been a firm believer of the service though, so we are sticking it out a little longer but if we have no bookings then we will have no choice but to de-list and look for an alternative like you.

[Anna446]

@Ryan0 and Leda: hi, I did not know that if we have no bookings is Airbnb's fault. That is interesting, I was under the impression that is because, simply guests are not interested in our properties or cities. Interesting that Airbnb would have something to do with it--as per your note.  thanks! shalom

anna