does anyone want to join me in an class action lawsuit vs airbnb?

Kai32
Level 4
New York, NY

does anyone want to join me in an class action lawsuit vs airbnb?

It appears that their penalities are quite predatory, and seems like they will offer these "helpful" suggestions to get more booking such as instant booking.  What they bank on is that the hosts forget to turn it off, despite notifying the customers right away.  Furthermore, no one at Airbnb appears they want to help and theres never seem to be supervisor around when I ask to speak with management.  This has to be a predatory practice somehow and I think we should join forces to make our voices heard.

250 Replies 250
Arnold44
Level 1
Oakfield, NY

I have been complaining about the terrible customer service for a year now and nothing has changed.  It is intact a predatory practice to provide a platform with a availability calendar and not require that the host keep the availability calendar updated.  This practice of stating your property is not available but your availability calendar is not updated to indicate that it is not available is sowing the seeds for discriminatory behavior and that behavior is supported by Airbnb because they have trained their pathetic customer service representatives to state that a host is allowed to decline a booking if they are not comfortable with the guest even before the guest stays in their home.

Kira32
Level 10
Canary Islands, Spain

@Kai32 keep us posted!

 

Stay strong!💪

 

Forever,

 

Kira

So I read quite few of the response on this thread. Can someone tell me why all the pro Air comments are from "Level 10" respondents? Ummmm...

All this talk about suing people, Air was started to make money for the people that started it.

It was not set up as a community service. It was started in the USA with an American understanding

of capitalism. They're in it for themselves, not for the hosts and not for the guests. When they start treating their venture as something everybody can make better, two things will happen, more people will feel like they belong to something that makes life better, not just making money, and 

they won't eat it because somebody did think that the gig economy should include ideas from all participants.  

Kim2164
Level 1
Hamilton, Canada

I got scammed for 2200 with Air Bnb but Im Canadian

Morgan78
Level 2
Phoenix, AZ

I received a police response bill in my name for the party my guests had (they booked it for 5 people and 60 people showed up) I was personally billed $230 and I wasn’t even at the property. The guest declined to pay.... Airbnb needs to focus more on putting themselves in the hosts shoes and realize that guests are abusing our loved homes to party, do drugs and trash our houses. Yet the hosts are the ones being penalized, with giving the guests a full refund, a horrible and untruthful review, and a $100 fee. And some times your listing being paused for 6 days... and Airbnb support doing this without even speaking or hearing the hosts side of the story. We as hosts and home owners are the reason why Airbnb even exists, with out us they would make no money. So please Airbnb, treat the hosts better 

Denis227
Level 10
La Boissière-École, FR

@Morgan78 

 

Your case is so simple that you should definitely use it to help move forward the cause of the correct and proper delineation of the hosts versus AirBnb responsability. 

 

If like all of us here, you think that you are not responsible for the fine, don't pay it ! 

 

You can't be responsible if you were not present at the property. Police was entitled to fine all those who were attending the property but not you.  ( only exception is  you could have done something about it and you refused  to act but it doesn't seem to be the case.... )  

 

The guest is responsible for the fine , and AirBnb is responsible for securing  the amount of the fine in anticipation of a potential liability as part of their so called host guarantee ( a fine is a damage, if not a financial damage then it is a reputational damage  ...) 

 

You are responsible for nothing ! Nada ! Nil ! Naught ! 

 

Write a letter to the police officer, explain your case, and tell the police  to search for the whereabouts of your host to fine him not you  assuming   he can collect this  information from Airbnb 

 

It's all too easy to ask the host to foot the bill left by the Guest and AirBNb ! 

 

Force the Police to crack down on AirBnb and your host by refusing to pay their fine ! That would be a great service to the host community as it would force the Police to seek the responsability of AirBnb in case  they don't find the guest !  

 

AirBnb responsibility must be SOUGHT  on each and every occasion. 

 

What we do in France, when we strongly oppose being fined  by cops for something which is not our responsability, we make a deposit of the value of the  fine with a trustee ( be it  a notary or a state bank )  just to testify  our willingness to pay should the judge decide in the end that we are responsible, and  at the same time,  we fight the fine in Court.

 

You'd better call Saul ..... 

Denis227
Level 10
La Boissière-École, FR

@Morgan78 

 

Corrigendum 

Obviously if ( bad luck ) a city ordinance foresees that you are the culprit of this mess, then you will have to pay it from your pocket .

 

But in that case,  you may still turn against AirBnb and your host to recoup this fine, and  seek their entire responsability for this mess. 

Sarkis2
Level 2
Los Angeles, CA

Hello

i had the worst experience ever. its been 2 months a guest stole UPS / amazon packages from other tenants on camera, made havoc of my apartment, stole from my place, drank all of expensive alcohol,  destroyed artwork, computer, on and on and on and got me evicted.... yet i cannot get anywhere with air bnb customer service.  anyone have any suggestions?

Lucinda61
Level 1
North Myrtle Beach, SC

I.will have to write more later when I have time, but Ihad a horrendous experience with a host who misrepresented her place, the room was in the basement and moldy, then she decided to do construction and create a health hazard, and she flipped out on me and called the police when I called Airbnb to report she was going to do construction and would I. be able to leave and get a refund as I it would effect my health.  I spent Countless nights  on the phone with Airbnb and explained my circumstances to many customer.reps who said a supervisor was not available but would call me back.  I actually never heard back for 5 + months.  I did not get to stay for the time I paid and now can't get my refund from Airbnb.  I think Airbnb is horribly unethical and unprofessional.  I really feel they do their best to keep from.refunding your money, even when you are clearly in the right!  I would welcome a response to get some dialogue going regarding Airbnb's unscrupulous practices!!!  

John1574
Level 10
Providence, RI

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@Lucinda61 @Sarkis2  @Morgan78 

 

I think it would be good to document everything that happened so an attorney can use the facts to pursue the case for you if everything adds up and Airbnb is truly at fault. It sounds like you feel you have been victimized by Airbnb.

 

@Sarkis2  you got evicted because of Airbnb. That's horrendous. How did that

happen? 

 

@Lucinda61  and you got victimized by an Airbnb scam were the host decided to do construction while you were living there and you had to inhale mold and experience other health hazards.

 

And being billed by the police for a call to a party that was held in your Airbnb, why, that's atrocious.

 

It would be good if you could lay out your cases in a very simple, straightforward manner: organize the stories in an outline form like one, two, three, four, explaining exactly what happened in simple steps so that the cases can be clearly understood.

 

That is the only way in attorney can understand what happened and determine if you have a legitimate case against Airbnb. 

The way you have explained things is nearly incomprehensible. Clear details, in outline form, is how you need to lay out your cases

 

You need to explain clearly what happened, and what you would like AirBnB to do for you.

 

The names, the dates, how much money is involved. 

 

Explain your case clearly and comprehensively if you expect anyone to be able to help you.

 

if you just come here to rant, well, then you've accomplished that but nothing else.

 

i'd like to know how these cases turn out, what the final resolution is: if you could provide us with that information we would all learn something from your experiences.

 

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Denis227
Level 10
La Boissière-École, FR

@Kai32 @Molly263 @John1574 @Lucinda61 @Robyn179 @Morgan78 

@Kim2164 @Anonymous @Arnold44 @Jeffrey-J0 @Salli3 @Lisa2078 @Lisa337 @Brookh0 

@Sarkis2 @Chris1982 @Chan32 @Kenneth12  @Carolina443 @Steve143 @Jeffrey119 @Susan17 

 

A few points from a long time french consumer activist,  who already fought a few battles  in french Courts agains Big Corp.

 

Sorry if I sound a bit patronizing, but anyone who would care to read any  book on consumer law would easily find the same information. 

 

As far as I can reckon all OECD countries ( including USA , UK , Germany , France etc ) share common principles for making business, and hence for protecting consumer rights. 

 

1. When a corporation enters in a contract with a consumer by way of its "Terms of services" ( here the word consumer refers BOTH to guests and hosts ) there are some basic principles which every contract must respect in order to be deemed legally valid. 

 

2. Of particular note, amongst these principles , are

 

the principle of  express  consent ( a business man can consent with his / her silence , but not a consumer - this is a major difference between the two realms of business law  and consumer law)  

 

the principle of readability ( contract should at the minimum be easy to READ  without the help of  glasses and be easy to follow from "a to z"  .... but  does NOT have to be  easy to understand)

 

the acknowledgment of responsability by the corporation, acting as a professionnal with cautiousness and hindsight, and taking care of the security of the consumer (host and guest alike) .  

 

the absence of hidden costs 

 

the limitations on use of personal data

 

etc  etc 

 

3. A detailed examination of AirBnb  TOS  has been undertaken by France's largest consumer association in the summer of 2018 ( at the time  EU authorities  threatened AirBnb with lawsuits) together with  TOSes  from a number of start ups and  on line hosting  ( Homeaway, Drivy, Zilok, Stootie....) . Guess who came out the worst of all,   on a count  of abusive clauses : AirBnb  of course !! 

 

4. The french association counted 45 instances of abusive clauses in AirBnb TOS.  This does not mean that a judge would decide that all 45 clauses are abusive. It means that there is high suspicion that 45 articles in the TOS could be deemed abusive by Court,  if and when Court opinion will be  sollicited by consumer groups. Amongst which  

 

- AirBNB TOS are often illegible since they include a high number of hyperlinks , sometimes written in english, and full of fuzzy and imprecise expressions  which" a consumer should never be able to find in a contract. Expressions  such as " from time  to time " " other sites" " at its own discretion" 

 

- In legal terms, AirBNB exonerates itself of any responsability in case of problem, such as a major problem with the listing  or major break of house rules. In its contract AirBnb is never responsible for direct damage caused to hosts and guests.  However this contractual exoneration is being waived "from time to time"  (!!!!!!) ,  either on a voluntary basis ( AirBnb often acknowledges "de facto"   its responsability  by reimbursing part of damages incurred by either host or guest even in case the other party is unwilling to pay ) or on a non voluntary basis,  when push comes to shove,  and AirBnb is forced to reimburse host or guest following non-amicable pressures. 

 

As an exemple of the above the french consumer association successfully intervened in obtaining full reimbursement of a french guest and member of the consumer association  in the following case. The guest had planned a short week holidays in a flat in Madrid. Upon check-in the guest realizes  that she can  hardly open and lock the front door due to some problem on the main lock. She calls AirBnb , cancels the rental and ask for reimbursement. Airbnb only agrees to reimburse marginal amount of total rental cost under the pretext that they are not responsible for host's lack of maintenance.  Realizing that AirBnb customer service is but a piece of crap ( which it really is !!!) , instead of shouting herself hoarse and loosing  precious holiday time on the phone, she calmly awaits  her return to France. Back in her hometown she calls the Consumer Association which, in turn, calls AirBnb and a few days later, she received full reimbursement without having to call AirBnb  a second time.

 

 Obviously when cornered by legally competent people, or threatened with legal action,  AirBnb becomes suddenly  more amenable to acknowledging its responsability. But not to the point of  showcasing it  in its TOS  ( thereby continuing its f£$%ing game of deterring uninformed consumers  from claiming AirBnB's responsability when things turn sour) .  

 

The lack of acknowledgment of AIrBNb 's responsability in its own contract is a major cause of concern for France's largest consumer association.

 

Because it leaves the host and guest at the mercy of AirBnb's own arbitrage ( aka "private justice" )  in case of problems.  

 

 

 

In conclusion, as @Beverly21  put it in one of her post on the thread related to the  Orinda Killing , AirBnb has more responsability than they are  exhibiting. And the top managers  know it. 

 

The  crux of the legal matter is therefore to force AirBnb to officially recognize what it currently  recognizes  in a strictly limited and very unofficial way. 

 

Once Courts will have forced AirBnb to recognize its responsability in the small and big sh%t which originate in its perverse business model, the company shares will become much less attractive to stockholders. 

 

This legal recognition of responsability  does not need to be asserted in each market where AirBnb operates. The leading AirBnb markets ( France , USA , what else ?  )  can take the lead in this respect.

 

A global strategy has to be elaborated between the various consumer groups in these main markets.  Hosts should join forces with their respective Consumer Unions in their home countries in order to pressure them to coordinate action at national and international level to push for recognition of AirBnb  legal responsability.   

 

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@Denis227 

 

very good and informative post, thank you.

 

Do you think their terms of service negate the arbitration clause?

 

Do the terms of service stand up to a challenge by a class action suit?

 

The woman you used in your example, she went to a state agency, I don't believe in the US we have such an agency.

 

The cards are always stacked against the individual.

Denis227
Level 10
La Boissière-École, FR

@John1574 

 

This is a test since it would seem I cannot write message anymore

Denis227
Level 10
La Boissière-École, FR

@John1574 

 

Hope this message can get thru

 

I don’t understand the meaning of your first question. Could you rephrase it differently ? Last summer the EU Commission ( DG Competition) asked for changes ( both additions and deletions ) in  AirBnb TOS, following a joint exercice between the various Competition Agencies of the Member States. It was decided, inter alia, that AirBnb would  remove any clause which would make consumers ( ie Guests and Hosts ) think or believe  that they are not entitled to  challenge arbitrary decision taken by AirBnb Litigation service. That means all decisions taken by the Litigation or by  any other Arbitration scheme can NOW be challenged by european consumers in their home country. This ruling by the Commission  implied many changes for AirBnb european TOS.

 

Second question :  A class action lawsuit is quite expensive to set up.  It might not be the  most effective way to use scant financial ressources to force  AirBnb to make changes in its TOS ( which is what you should be aiming at BEFORE  anything else, since everything else is conditionned by TOS ). But I don’t know enough about american law to give you a strong opinion on that point.   My best answer is that their TOS should not stand up to any legal challenge, whatever type of legal action you decide upon. New England states are more protective of consumer rights ( the Sanders syndroma ….) so may be it would be good to have a try in VT, NH  or RI  Courts.  This is where hosts really need to get help from experts in consumer law. You have to have a strategy when you are fighting David against Goliath. In France,  a class action is not needed when you want to have judges declare that the same  clause is abusive in thousands of  contracts  and should therefore  be declared null and void in these thousands of contracts. Any headstrong consumer can get a favorable decision from a Court with the consequence that this decision ( following Appeal and Cassation) will be applicable to ALL consumers in France having signed the same contract. So you see one headstrong consumer can work miracles, especially if his legal action is NOT aimed and directed towards  HIS  little selfish interest but in the interest of advancing consumer protection at large.

 

Regarding your last point , the woman did NOT go the a state agency. She went to a non profit organization whose job is to protect consumer rights. A list of such organizations in the States can be found here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_consumer_organizations

I’m sure some of the names in this list  are household names, at least  for concerned citizens !  Some of these names are familiar to me, living  on the other side of the Atlantic.  I bet some of these organisations have already appointed a « Mr AirBnb » in charge of compiling complaints and getting prepared for the big fights in Court.  

So it’s high time hosts  should get involved too.   

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@Denis227 

 

Thanks, Denis, coming through loud and clear.

 

My understanding is that the US terms of service includes an arbitration clause the precludes any lawsuits. In other words the parties in a dispute must go before an arbitrator which is always disadvantageous to the consumer.

 

I guess I was asking that if the terms of service are proven to be illegal, that would probably negate the arbitration clause and open them to lawsuits including class-action suits.

 

Right now, although I'm no expert, I believe that Airbnb thinks they have insulated them from any lawsuits in the US including class action lawsuits.

 

Maybe a consumer advocate more familiar with US laws could answer that question more accurately.

 

In reading these forums for over a year I have never heard of any Airbnb host or customer going to a consumer advocacy organization in the US and getting satisfaction from Airbnb. If it was covered here I probably missed it. But I don't recall any such incident.

 

Perhaps Europe has much more stringent consumer protection laws.

The US is still much more of the wild west when it comes to consumer protection: Caveat emptor. That seems to be the law of the land.

 

I will check out the link you sent and read it when I have a moment.

 

Perhaps some Hosts who have had to pursue Airbnb through consumer advocacy Organizations will check in on this thread and let us know how they fared.

 

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