Define 'Private Room' and Host accessibility thereto

[Ken28]

As a part of hosting, I take it upon myself to do a quick walk-through every couple days. I've been doing this since day one. First, I check that they're not home (car isn't in garage or driveway), and then I knock on the door, and then I let myself in when I verify that they're not present.

I take a quick look around, make sure the trash can isn't full, tissues are stocked, and then inspect to verify that towels are in their proper locations (the bathroom, and not hanging in the bedroom), food is not being stored or disposed of in the rooms, and that they are taking good care of my personal property. (Those are all things that they agreed to in the rules.)

I just had a long term guest leave a week early. She requested a refund of her unused days via the resolution center. Her reason was listed as "uncomfortable" with the host entering the room without permission.

Airbnb reached out to me, and I confirmed that yes, I access my guests rooms without their consent or even notice. Their response said:
"I do truly understand that you would just like to protect your home from damages, and I get that with guests in the past, this has become your primary goal. However, like I said, this is absolutely not something you are allowed to do on our platform. If a guest books your listing as a "private room" they are not expected to share their living quarters, which means this is only for the guest that had booked. By going into this guests listing without her permission, this makes for an uncomfortable and potentially inappropriate situation between you and your guest, and this is something we always would like to avoid."

"With that being said, per our Terms of Service, Section 9 paragraph 5 & 6, I will be proceeding with refunding your guest for the nights she did not stay in your listing. This will amount to a total of $[xxx]. At this time, because you have already received this payout you will be seeing an adjustment to your account for this total. This adjustment will be due to come out of your future payouts."

Nowhere in my reading of the Terms of Service does it say that a Private Room is not accessible to the Host. I've challenged the Manager, but haven't gotten a response back yet.

[Robin4]

@Ken28

Well Ken, I totally understand that you have a desire to make sure guests are not abusing your hospitality but, as far as I am concerned you absolutely do not have the right to do a 'walk through' un-announced. I would regard that as an invasion of their privacy and if it happened to me I would probably do the same and cancel the remainder of my stay with you!

I would no sooner walk through my listing when a guest rented it than cut my big toe off!

To me there is very little difference between entering that space when it is occupied by guests and installing cameras so you can keep an eye on guest behaviour.

I am quite sure you would be agrieved if a guest did a walk through of your personal space, and don't tell me there is a difference....there is not! The guest may have left personal articles of clothing lying around, valuables, watches, jewelery just the same as you would do Ken!

One would have thought, as a host you would have a high level of respect for others privacy and you would not consider that this is acceptable behaviour. I am amazed more past guests have not mentioned it although one did allude to it!

Good on Airbnb for the way they have handled this situation, others may not agree with me but the reason for their decision is 100% sound.

Maybe it's not my place to say it but Ken I have noticed in your other posts you have a few issues where guest behaviour is concerned. Some have been offended by your house rules, others by your 'quiet time' policy. You must realise that when a guest pays you money to use your listing they do not want to feel like they are entering cell 16 at Folsom Prison! They do not want to be hamstrung by occupancy hours, un-announced visits at any time and other seemingly onorous house rules. Perhaps you have the wrong mindset for hosting Ken and you should find another way to make a dollar where you won't offend others privacy or give them cause to regret their decision to stay with you. Try and put yourself in the mind of the guest....how would you like to be treated when you have paid your money to stay somewhere? Sometimes looking through the eyes of others can be quite revealing!

Cheers....Rob

[Ken28]

@Robin4 "To me there is very little difference between entering that space when it is occupied by guests and installing cameras so you can keep an eye on guest behaviour."

I agree, walk-throughs while the rooms is occupied goes against the definition of a private room. But this goes back to the definition of "PRIVATE".

Airbnb has no definitions thereof, except the two statements I have found:

1. Private rooms: Guests share some common areas with you, like the kitchen, living room, or bathroom, but they have their own private room for sleeping.
2. Private rooms: Private rooms are great for when you prefer a little privacy, but still value a local connection. When you book a private room, you'll have a bedroom to yourself, but will share some spaces with others. With a private room, you'll be able to wake up to greet your new friends in the kitchen and have the freedom to bid them adieu at bedtime.

One should not infer from either of those descriptions that the room is private while they are not occupying it.

Any I mean 'occupy' in the sense that:

1) If you are IN the room, it is occupied, and therefore I respect your privacy within the room.

2) If you are OUTSIDE the room, you have left it unoccupied, and you don't retain that privacy while you are elsewhere.

Thus, my definition of a "Private Room" is one that, while OCCUPIED, will have access restricted to only the guest.

[end of discussion on topic]

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[begin rant]

Now, to all those the CONTINUOUSLY imply that I am not a proper host ( @David126, @Robin4), that I am unfit for hosting, and I need to find something better to do with my life... Pardon my french, but I DON'T GIVE A HOOT what you think about me or my personality or my capability for being a proper Host. No one asked for your opinion on those matters, and your high-horse attitudes that 'your way or the highway' are inappropriate and uncalled for.

If you want to 'see through someone else's eyes', why don't you guys go buy a house, then spend $50,000 dollars out of pocket (which was your entire life savings) renovating it to make it habitable and a comfortable space, and then sit back and watch as random strangers destroy it without any regards, recompense, nor accountability since Airbnb always sides with the guests. THEN tell me that my daily inspections are uncalled for. I'm NOT violating anyone's privacy by entering an unoccupied room, and I'm ensuring that the space remains in top-shape so they and future guests can continue to enjoy it.

[end rant]

[Colleen47]

@Ken28

While I understand you want to make sure your home, a masterpiece of your own design, something you have pit blood and sweat, not to mention money into is being treated well, I have to disagree with your definition of "occupied ". While you see it as they are physically in the room, I think maybe thinknof this term as " rented". If the room is occupied it means the guest has paid for the space and may leave their beloved in it. 

I do understand your desire to maintain your home. I personally hand sanded, stained, sealed, and clean our hardwood floors, but would never let myself into the house when guests were renting just to make sure they didn't spill red wine on them. Trust that they will care for your space. If they don't well then you have every right to request compensation from their damage deposit. 

Good luck

[Zacharias0]

Fully agree! I'd get the creeps if a host barged in on my room or came to inspect it while I wasn't there and while I was there. Good for AirBnB for refunding her the money.

[Ken28]

You guys make it sound like I come in like a tornado and turn over bed cushions and throw everything around.

It's pretty simple:

1) Check they have left (car is gone)

2) Knock on door

3) Enter room

4) Quick glance at dresser, nightstand, desk for food

5) Quick glance at trash to see if it needs emptied

6) Quick glance in closet for similar things

7) Look in bathroom (shared, by the way) to ensure towel on rack

In and out in a minute. Hardly would consider this 'barging in'. No 'significant harm to Airbnb or it's members' (per Section 9 of the terms). And only 1 in 16 guests has made a fuss about it. Others are happy to see that I am attentive and fix problems before they happen.

[David126]

@Ken28

I remember your last thread, may I ask why you are doing this, why are you listing your property?

[Ken28]

You may ask. But what's the benefit in answering when all you plan to do is attack me for it?

[Robin4]

@Ken28

Ken, I don't want to attack you, but you have come here asking for advice.

I have not been hosting for long but my calendar is as full as I ever want it to be. I have raised my price but the bookings keep coming.

I am not trying to be a smart a*se, but I am trying to tell you what works. If it works for me....it will work for others.

In your posts Ken you have never come to the forum with a positive post....I don't want to see that, I want to see you be succesful and all I can give you is experience. What I say to you may be seen as sanctimonious, and it is that way for a reason, to make you a better host.

I could just be like @David126 and say...'what the hell are you doing hosting'....but Ken, you are worth it, you are a superhost, some of your guests love you....you have runs on the board. I am hard on you Ken, but you are worth it! Step back and look at your hosting through the eyes of your guests and I am sure you will see that it is not always the host that is right. 

When you host you do have to bend a bit!

Cheers.....Rob

[Allison2]

I wonder if Airbnb would have made the same call if your expectation for room access was better communicated in your listing?

I've needed to enter my guests' suite occasionally - usually happens once or twice a summer when I see there's a window wide open with a storm coming in. Or my favorite: when they left windows open while running the AC full blast.

In my listing it says "The upstairs of the house is your private sanctuary. I only enter to close/open windows as needed to keep the elements out and the space comfortable, or to address major violations of house rules." I send them a text to let them know what I needed to do.

I do think this is a little different than the frequent “inspection” you’re doing; it makes me uncomfortable to enter a guests’ space during their stay. It does feel like a violation, and inhospitable - I think that’s what you’re hearing from @Robin4 & @David126. Take it less as a personal attack and more as a message: good hosts and Airbnb think you’re overstepping reasonable boundaries for guests’ privacy.

I’m not going to tell you that you shouldn’t be hosting, but I do think you should ask yourself why you’re having a hard time trusting your guests. Are there concerns you could address in other ways? For example: it sounds like you want towels to remain in the bathroom. Why? I imagine the real reason is that you want towels hung up, not left on furniture. A lot of people (especially women?) might want to wear their towel out of the bathroom and get dressed in their bedroom. Rather than fighting this (likely ingrained) habit, why not provide hooks in the room so your real goal is met?

If you must inspect, perhaps you could cloak your intrusion as (bi-,tri-) weekly maid service – so at least the guests get a freshly made bed in exchange for your perusal of their space.

[Karen313]

@Allison2 Awesome response, agreed on many levels!

@Ken28

"He's great with kids, too! You can poke him or pet him or pull his tail, and he'll just grin and put up with everything like a champ. (He has no aggression towards people.)"

Yet. He has no aggression, luckily for you & everyone he has encountered, yet. For the love of all that is not common sense, as a host & someone involved in rehabbing dogs, please rethink this.
Yes, that's off topic, it's also begging for more problems with guests than you already have. And quite unfair to the animal

[Ken28]

@Karen313, So I'm not allowed to advertise that my dog is friendly? By the size of him, many are scared of him when they meet him, and this point is to help put peoples fears of a 90lb dog at bay.

Obviously, I'm not giving anyone permission to kick the dog. I'm just giving examples of why he's not a liability or anything to fear. My toddler and infant neices and nephews adore him, and he IS a non-aggressive dog... So why hide that?

[Karen313]

@Ken28 

I appreciate that you wrote back. By all means, I think it is great to advertise that your dog is friendly. Potential guests can obviously be frightened off or attracted to a listing with an animal, I get that.
But I am also a huge fan of dogs, in addition to hosting, having raised & rescued them for years. In short, for both of those reasons, I would not suggest (nor do I myself) leaving my animal with any guest unattended &/or assuring guests it is okay to poke or pull on your dog.

At worst it's an accident waiting to happen. At best, super unfair to the animal who is being gracious & patient with virtual strangers. Especially when most children (if not adults) are unaware how to handle animals & read a dog's body language.

As someone who chooses to work with the dogs that were 'so sweet' & then get discarded, I had just wanted to share my thoughts with you on wording.
I wish you much luck & would not have written any of this were dogs & hosting not the main things on which I spend time. It is in no way meant to be condescending or snarky.

[Ken28]

I appreciate your concern, @Karen313, and that you're speaking from your personal insight on pets in general.

My dog is not your average dog, though, and feel it necessary to advertise that. I know my dog better than anyone else in the world would. He's lived with me for over five years, during which he's been a loving companion to around 20 short- and long-term guests. If you doubt his lack of aggression, come meet him in person. I wouldn't be advertising his non-aggression if I didn't have 100% trust in his character.

As General Mills would say - "kid tested, mother approved" 🙂

If I were to change the wording from "can poke or pull" to "could poke or pull", would that sound less like permission to abuse?

[Karen313]

@Ken28 Good luck with everything.