Guest not leaving

[Hiten2]

Hello

I have a guest who had rented an apartment from 4th September he is with his wife and two very young children.  He was due to check out yesterday and has not, the reason being he has no where to go.  I am waiting a response/support from AirBnB but wanted to check if anyone in the UK had experienced something similar and how they addressed it or if any one had a suggestion

Thank you

Hiten

[Hiten2]

Ok firstly I would like to emphasise my appreciation at all of the effort that you have taken to comment and respond to the question I have raised.  @Helen3  totally agree ‘disagree’ was a bit strong from me.

Now where am I at.  I have been very fortunate property solicitor at my side in the past for other property related issues.  I had sent the link to AirBnB agreement

https://www.airbnb.co.uk/terms#eusec201910_8

to him and had this feedback from Stanley:

Thank you.

It refers to a license (sic) and applicable law. Unfortunately, a possession order is required otherwise eviction is illegal and there is currently a ban save I believe an exception applies for squatters. However, the Courts sometimes interpret a licence as a tenancy, where there is exclusive possession for a fee. You may be stuck with your “guest” for some time.

Unfortunately, I do not think you can lawfully cut off the electricity supply as it will likely breach the 1977 Act and be a criminal offence – see https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/43#:~:text=1%20Unlawful%20eviction%20and%20harassment%20of....

Part I

Unlawful Eviction and Harassment

1Unlawful eviction and harassment of occupier.

(1)In this section “residential occupier”, in relation to any premises, means a person occupying the premises as a residence, whether under a contract or by virtue of any enactment or rule of law giving him the right to remain in occupation or restricting the right of any other person to recover possession of the premises.

(2)If any person unlawfully deprives the residential occupier of any premises of his occupation of the premises or any part thereof, or attempts to do so, he shall be guilty of an offence unless he proves that he believed, and had reasonable cause to believe, that the residential occupier had ceased to reside in the premises.

(3)If any person with intent to cause the residential occupier of any premises—

(a)to give up the occupation of the premises or any part thereof; or

(b)to refrain from exercising any right or pursuing any remedy in respect of the premises or part thereof;

does acts calculated to interfere with the peace or comfort of the residential occupier or members of his household, or persistently withdraws or withholds services reasonably required for the occupation of the premises as a residence, he shall be guilty of an offence.

[F1(3A)Subject to subsection (3B) below, the landlord of a residential occupier or an agent of the landlord shall be guilty of an offence if—

(a)he does acts likely to interfere with the peace or comfort of the residential occupier or members of his household, or

(b)he persistently withdraws or withholds services reasonably required for the occupation of the premises in question as a residence,

and (in either case) he knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, that that conduct is likely to cause the residential occupier to give up the occupation of the whole or part of the premises or to refrain from exercising any right or pursuing any remedy in respect of the whole or part of the premises

My response was that I would wait for the meters to run empty which for the electric would be very soon to see what he does/or happens next his side.

Stanley, did mention:

Yes, but you may be committing the criminal offence of unlawful harassment. It depends if the guest can still be described as a valid residential occupier after the agreed period of stay ran out.

Airbnb does not alter English property law. Exclusive possession of a property in return for payment is likely to be an assured shorthold tenancy by default. It could be a mere licence e.g. if substantial services are provided by the owner or where the guest shares occupation so there are communal areas.

If he claims to be a tenant then he should be liable for council tax.

Will keep you posted and thanks again

[Helen3]

Oh dear I would get another solicitor they have provided you with advice regarding tenants and their rights.

These people are not tenants. They were guests who you granted a temporary right of occupation to. They are now trespassing. 

why have you not gone to the property and told them to leave.

Agree you can’t cut off utilities but you don’t have to top them up. 


@Hiten2 

[Ute42]

.

@Hiten2  

That's the usual vague answer You get from laywers:

I believe........, Courts sometimes interpret..........., You may be stuck........., I do not think........., it will likely breach............, you may be committing............., It depends if............, is likely to be........., It could be …........

„Maybe“ you should just turn off electricity and see what happens.

If You're looking for clear statements, here's one from my personal STR code of law:

§ 1:   If You turn off electricity, the guest will immedeately be gone.

[Emiel1]

@Ute42 

I still would refine, to prevent guarantee claims ;>):

§ 1: If you turn off electricity, it is likely the guests will immediately be gone

[Ute42]

.

@Emiel1 

You sound like a laywer 😊

[Helen350]

@Hiten2 Your lawyer is talking rubbish! He does not know the facts. These vermin have NO rights, they booked for a couple of weeks ONLY! They are NOT TENANTS!

- Go and throw all their belongings into the street!  (You'd have to physically clear the place if you had NEW guests coming!)

Change the locks! WHY are you being such a wimp? 

- Or you could move in yourself.... And your family/friends  if you have any...... Take their sheets off, put yours on sleep there! - They can't get in the beds if you & yours are in them!

[Sarah977 · Accepted solution]

@Hiten2  From your post: "In this section “residential occupier”, in relation to any premises, means a person occupying the premises as a residence."

These are short term guests- it isn't their "residence". If you go stay in a hotel for 3 days, is it your residence? They booked for something like 2 weeks- THEY AREN'T RESIDENTS. They don't "reside" on your property, they booked a short stay. . 

But if you don't boot them out quick, they will soon be there long enough to fall under landlord/tenant laws.

[Colleen253]

@Sarah977 "But if you don't boot them out quick, they will soon be there long enough to fall under landlord/tenant laws." 

Bingo.

. @Hiten2 

[Helen3]

@Hiten2  Do you have an update for hosts here who have been advising you? Are the former guests out yet? 

[Hiten2]

Hello,

I had earlier posted the following as a response to one of the messages on the thread:

Hello @Mike-And-Jane0 the electric ran out on Tuesday evening and after umpteen threats of police, council, press etc during Tuesday and Wednesday to which I did not respond or react on Thursday they left.

I think here it helped that the meters for all the apartments were in the communal area and also top up.

Feel a lot better then last week.

All the best to you and thanks for your thoughts

Hiten

[Cormac0]

@Hiten2 

Your solicitor advice is exactly the same  sort advice given to my cousin, and if you followed it like my cousin did, you'd have that filthy scum still living high on the hog at your expense. 

[Hiten2]

I would say I was lucky and his advise was that based on the law.  I would question all those who suggested to walk in it won’t work especially under the circumstances and the difference that Coronavirus has introduced.  If I had done than I would have found myself looking at a long wait.  As I said lucky on this occasion and happy as a result.

[Helen3]

Believe what you like @Hiten2 . His advice was not correct he was referring to those with tenancy rights NOT a paying short term guest who became a trespasser once his contract with you expired 

you are incredibly lucky the  trespasser left without you having to intervene in person. 

[Hiten2]

@Helen3 I have already stated I was lucky and feel it helps that my meters to all the apartments in the building are top up and in a communal area.  If as threatened by the guest the police/council did get involved I would refuse to top up and take it from there.

 The area is so grey but if I had a AirBnB community response in which circumstances similar to mine (self contained, two young kids and Coronavirus changes) in which someone had taken the guest out maybe my response would have been different.  However, it did not seem logical under the circumstances and my experience as a property investor which was validated by by solicitor comments.

To add I am not sure what the experience people have had with solicitors (or the letter of the law) but mine with Stanley is great he wins for me when needed.  His advise was a friend to a friend and did not incur any charges.

To add AirBnB were really helpful and initially also offered the guest alternative Accomodation to which he did not respond/take up.

I would not wish a similar circumstance on anyone but with hindsight my advise under similar circumstances would be work with AirBnB (in my case I had Marie from Dublin who was absolutely brilliant) but do not go in all guns blazing

Hiten

[Helen3]

Thanks for the update. @Hiten2 

I offer both STRs and LTRs so am very familiar with rights and responsibilities for both. 

Appalling to hear Airbnb were willing to offer this guest alternative Airbnb accommodation knowing they were trespassing at your place, rather than banning them from the platform