Have you ever had a fake extenuating circumstances certificate?

[Inna22]

 I have a reservation for early September from a fully grown adult guest coming according to him with his friends.

Today I get a note from Airbnb that his mother passed away and his reservation is canceled under extenuating circumstances. First off, while of course needless to say I feel for him and it is a tragedy to lose a mother, how is  this connected to a reservation six months out she is not part of? Ok, maybe this is a matter of opinion – maybe his religion requires him to mourne for a year.  I don’t know. The kicker is that the certificate is fake. I checked and it is from a small clinic where he works himself, however the Dr who signed the certificate does not work there! Or even comes up as dr. in search.

I contacted Airbnb and they just said they felt it was legitimate. No explanation of discussion. I understand this is so far out, I will hopefully get another reservation but that’s not the point. 

[Ute42]

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@Alon1 

To answer Your questions:

1. Firstly, I must confess I'm confused by your profile.
   
   I'm sorry to hear that
   
   

2. You only have 4 Airbnb Reviews as a Host between June and October 2018.
   
   That's correct
   
   

3. However, you present yourself as far more experienced.
   
   That's because I am experienced.
   
   

4. If I recall correctly, on another thread, someone questioned your experience, and you explained that you've hosted for decades and taken thousands of bookings.
   
   Yes, I've hosted for decades, maybe 3000+ guests
   
   

5. If so, it's not clear to me if this hosting is actually related to Airbnb?
   
   No, this hosting is not related to airbnb. But You already know that, bc I have only 4 reviews on airbnb.
   
   

6. We're only allowed one profile.
   
   I only have one profile.
   
   

7. Or do you have another profile, perhaps an Airbnb Business Account?
   
   See answer to Q6.
   
   

8. Secondly, have you actually dealt with a legitimate cancellation due to death?
   
   No, I haven't - have You? You are also posting answers to this thread.
   
   

9. If so, on which website and how is the cancellation dealt with?
   
   See answer to Q8
   
   

10. Is there an Insurance which covers it?
    
    

    Yes, in our country a „Reiserücktrittskostenversicherung“ would cover it. But not if someone dies and the customer wants to cancel a reservation 6 months out. Also, this 2 weeks reservation must have been for 20 people maybe worth $10.000. @Inna22  is offering 2 listings, one sleeps 16 and the  other one sleeps 10 and Inna wrote this guest had booked her "two properties!". If at all, said insurance would have covered the financial loss of the guest who's mother died, but not the loss of a group of 20 people. And I believe this insurance would have required a death certivicate to even start working on the case.
    
    

Alon, may I ask You a counterquestion.

• What do all Your questions have to do with the statements I'm making 2 posts further up?

[Alon1]

@Ute42 

Thank you for the detailed response.

Firstly, I wish to redress my 'confusion'. 

On another current thread 'Third party booking not allowed, unless...' (by Emiel from Netherlands)

I posed a similar question to a contributor by the name of Ton from Barcelona.

  Ton writes as an experienced host, but has no listings or reviews whatsoever! This suggests that if Ton is an authentic Airbnb Host, he must have another profile, perhaps a business one. 

 (See copy below of my query to Ton for which I await his reply, though someone else has sought to interject suggesting an explanation, and that my query was inappropriate.)

In any case, my preference in appraising the contribution of anyone on CC is in putting greater value in those who have had considerable experience with Airbnb over time.

   So when you articulate what you deem 'the essence of Airbnb...' I evaluate such a powerful and telling comment in context of your actual experience of dealing with this company. And as you admit, your experience is extremely limited. 

  More to the point, your comment certainly does not reflect my experience with Airbnb, the essence of which has been quite different than you project. My experience is over 7 years, during which time the company has gone through an extraordinary evolution.

   In my genesis, I was dealing with an individual employee of Airbnb in London who not only encouraged me, but provided considerable help in setting up my listings. He did so as I was in bereavement following my mother's death and not knowing how to deal with the substantial Inheritance Tax on the property, the family home of over 30 years. The options were to either sell to pay off the horrendous tax, or keep the home and pay over 10 years in annual instalments (+ 3% interest).Airbnb provided an immediate and viable option at least worth trying. It required a further 18 months of dealing with Probate, Inheritance Tax including valuation of property, before I was able to start Hosting in mid 2013.

   Six years later I still own my beloved home, and I can only thank Airbnb!

I need be even more specific, as to date Airbnb till quite recently has been the only company that adequately permits live-in Hosts to thrive. [Wimdu did for a few years but went bust, and anyway did not provide me anywhere near the volume of bookings] 

  I must further qualify the situation for live-in-hosts is significantly different than for those marketing buy-to-lets, entire flats and the like, i.e. non-resident properties, for which there are many different sites available. Recently it seems that other companies have began to expand into Airbnb's market for home-hosting, such as Booking.com 

Though there is much I don't like about the evolution of Airbnb, I've attempted to fathom the nature of the beast, and learned to tailor my cloth accordingly. I don't do Instant Book, I don't take bookings months in advance (two or three months is very rare for me) nor do I take long term bookings, i.e. no longer than two- three weeks. (If people wish to extend, they do so privately) Consequently, Cancellations are have been incredibly rare, and none related to 'extenuating circumstances'. 

All this further means that I consciously attempt to limit my interaction with Customer Services. Though on the rare occasions I've had to do for serious issues, I am remarkably persistent. The last serious issue over 6 months ago led me to visit London HQ and ask to speak to someone, and this by-ways led to the resolution of the problem that previously failed over numerous phone calls.

Finally, returning to Inna's issue, catalyst for this thread. 

  I would not make a definitive comment unless I was privy to the Death Certificate. Indeed, I already find it quite strange that Inna has some version of it from which she was able to research and pronounce it 'fraud'. This is a legal statement given the document; and if I was convinced of its fraudulence, I would pursue the matter if it involves as much money as you estimate . Not only due to the sum, but the principal of Airbnb potentially failing to identify a fraudulent document which can obviously have widespread implications beyond Inna's case. 

I would only add, if it turns out that Inna is mistaken (ie the death wasn't contrived), then I would understand why cancellation takes place 5 or 6 month beforehand for reason explained yesterday. 

===============

Ton,

 Please excuse me, but I'm confused by your profile.

 You speak as an experienced Airbnb Host, but you do not have any listings or reviews posted on your profile.

 It leads me to speculate you may have a separate Hosting account?

However, to the best of my knowledge we are only permitted a single account.

 Consequently, I would appreciate your clarification.

 Thanks,

Alon

Meantime someone else answered: 'It's not up to us to questions our fellow posters on here  as to how many accounts they may have.You can co-host on as many listings as you want without it showing up on your own profile.Ton in Barcelona doesn't need to clarify anything ! Personally,' 

My response:

  I rather believe we are entitled to question, and the person can choose to answer or not, that is without someone else's interjection. 

[Ann72]

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@Ute42 wrote:

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This is brilliant, Ute.  And hilarious.

When you wrote, "I'm only offering left over weekends with a maximum of 6 weeks out through airbnb. All my expensive peak season weeks are processed through other distribution channels," it was quite clear that you do the majority of your business through another platform.  I don't understand how anyone reading your post could have missed that.

[Inna22]

@Ute42 

 A couple of things:

1. I’m not confused at your profile. Please comment on my threads anytime and every time 

2.  Yes, that is how Airbnb functions. But this was just so blatant and in my face. 

3.  Interestingly, it was only eight people traveling. I guess they each wanted to have their own bedroom. So they had enough money to splurge on accommodations, therefore they had enough money to either get insurance or cough up the cost of cancellation. But I guess all along they knew they could fake a note should they need one 

[Inna22]

@Alon1 

I like your outlook on Airbnb. We do so much complaining here but it does give me a cushy income. I wish there were headquarters in Chicago, I would have for sure made a trip there once or twice!

As to my situation. I do not know if the mother is dead. She might be. She might be dead for decades. I do not know why 8 adult men would not travel at all several months from now if one of the traveler’s mother has passed away. What I do know is that I was provided a note that had only first and last name of the person. No date of birth or death or any other identifiers. It was a one liner note from a doctor, not a certificate or a form. When I looked up the clinic in the header, the guest himself was listed as working there but the doctor on the note was not. I also could find no record of a doctor with this name and specialty. Furthermore, the dr is endocrinologist. While he/she maybe aware of his patient’s passing, this type of specialist is normally not in a position to certify death. I can conclude with outmost certainty that the guest fabricated this note. If the mother did in fact pass away, I would imagine he would have no problem providing a legitimate death certificate. I would imagine he would need one to take care of her personal matters anyway.

All of this also explains why Airbnb does not let us see the paperwork. They probably know that a lot of it is not up to their own standard. They do not want conflicts with guests, they do not really care if there are extenuating circumstances or not. They want guests happy and it does not cost them anything to cancel. They also know that after we complain to each other or to ourselves we will go on to hosting just like we were before.

[Alon1]

@Inna22 

Thanks for reply.

If I was in possession of this document I would initially show it to my solicitor and get his appraisal and advice.

If he pronounced it fraud, he would advise me what to do with it in the case that I wished to address the issue.

Like you I believe the 'principal' is important here. So I would look to do something about it, initially within the confines of Airbnb. Persistence is likely to unearth someone willing to take some action.

If not, you have various choices to make it a public issue.

Others, will just counsel you to let sleeping dog lie....

The choice is yours.

[Inna22]

@Alon1

we are only allowed arbitration and the mother might be truly deceased. The way the policy is written now, she could have died 10 years ago and they could still decide it is extenuating circumstance. There is no language about the coloration of the death timeline and travel. So this is not anything that would uphold in court or I would want to waste my time on

[Alon1]

@Inna22 

Thanks for more detailed explanation.

In the process you have articulated something I consider very important re 'no language about the coloration of the death timeline and travel.' 

  This is something that I would at least attempt to bring to the fore and that may lead Airbnb to reconsider the wording of the policy. .

  Afterall, Airbnb's mantra is that they listen to Host & Guest Feedback and consistently make changes based ont he feedback.

In this case,  It would be very interesting to see you on the stage with the powers that be at the next video forum.

[Inna22]

@Alon1

I am pretty sure it is written this way on purpose to allow them as much latitude as possible 

[Alon1]

@Inna22 

I tend not to assume, but probe for explanation. Perhaps because I'm an historical researcher and rely considerably on documentation.

In your case, I would be interested to pursue the matter, because I find it intriguing, fascinating! 

So at least, thank you.

[Gulay1]

Hey @Inna22 ,

Though I am not surprised, I feel for you and I'm sincerely sorry that you received the infamous Airbnb cold shoulder.

Here's some proof that I can relate:

https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Help/Guest-damages-apartment-customer-service-refuses-to-grant/m...

https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Hosting/Cancellation-Policy-Airbnb-once-again-throws-the-host-un...

"[Airbnb] just said they felt it was legitimate. No explanation of discussion."

This seems like a recurring theme.

See also: Airbnb disregards its own rules, fawns up to dishonest guest, throws host under the bus.

[Ute42]

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@Inna22, @Alon1 

Hi Alon,

thank You for Your long and detailed response. I'm sorry that Your mother passed away, I already knew that as You are mentioning it in Your airbnb profile and I've read that before. My parents also don't live anymore by the way. As regrettable as it is, it's a standard thing for everyone at a certain age.

Here's another bereavement: Let's assume, a hosts mother passes away and this host cancelles all confirmed airbnb bookings for the next 6 months. Do You think this host will be granted extenuating circumstances by airbnb?

Airbnb has revolutionised the rental market with their airbed and breakfast idea. But in 5 years from now they will be remembered as the company that ruined the guest quality in STR.

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Ute42  Here's another bereavement: Let's assume, a hosts mother passes away and this host cancelles all confirmed airbnb bookings for the next 6 months. Do You think this host will be granted extenuating circumstances by airbnb?

I fear not.

I fear cancellation would be possible but ABB fees would be payable and guests would be invited to write reviews.

[Alon1]

@Ute @Inna22 @Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 

Ute,

re. the assumption.

It would be initially worth checking if there is precedence, by posting a thread to inquire if anyone has experienced it. Airbnb has been operating for a decade, so I imagine there must be some examples.

Short of inquiry, contrary to Ian, I think the Host would be granted extenuating circumstances for as long as required.

I think the way it would proceed is that Host will initially talk with Airbnb and an agreement will be reached on a period of time that maybe necessary. For example, perhaps an initial agreement would be made for lets say a 3 months period, to be reviewed perhaps in 6 weeks time for the latter 3 months.

Let's say Host requests all bookings are cancelled for the first 3 months.

  Airbnb normally offer to help Guests find alternative accommodation. Indeed, I periodically receive calls from CS with requests on behalf of Guests whose bookings have been cancelled for various reasons. So its normal. 

For the second period, 4 - 6 months down the line, I posit Airbnb will immediately contact the Guests to inform them of the situation, and give them the option to either wait a certain designated time (agreed with the Host) before the Host is able to confirm one way or the other; alternatively, Guest could  cancel immediately and look for alternatives.

No costs to either party. 

No Reviews. 

[Alon1]

@Ute @Inna @Ian And Anne-Marie 

ps. Alternative to posting a thread would be to check in CC archive 'Search'.

I don't have time right now, but wouldn't be surprised to discover posts on the subject.