Host asking for cash outside the app

[Liam1503]

Hi there,

I was just wondering what kind of punishment would a host receive from Airbnb for asking a guest to cancel a reservation and pay them directly instead of using the app? I am having some ongoing issues with a refund and the host is encouraging us to cancel (losing 50%) and paying him in person the other 50% in the future, instead of allowing us to reschedule using the Airbnb platform. 

I am hoping Airbnb will penalize this host and void his cancellation policy and we receive our money back. 

All the messages are on the Airbnb platform, I have the evidence.  

[Liam1503]

Are you serious? We are in the middle of a global pandemic. We have three front line workers and 3 high-risk guests that have been advised not to travel, we also have two children under the age of 16. 

You are not understanding the situation regrading the host. He approached us with this 'solution' almost as a threat, if we didn't cancel and pay him outside the app then we would NOT be getting anything for the money we paid. Airbnb has a feature to reschedule on the platform, he is very adamant that he doesn't want to use this. Do you trust strangers solely based on their word and when they clearly lied to you before? 

I know this host is dodgy, I have dealt with people like him in the past and I will stick to my instincts and listen to Airbnb when they tell me not to cancel.

[Sarah977]

@Liam1503  Airbnb told you not to cancel? That's wrong. If the guest wants to cancel, it's up to the guest to cancel, if the host wants to cancel, the host cancels. What Airbnb said, from what you've written, is that they would contact the host to see if he would agree to a mutual cancellation, which he didn't. It would have been nice of him to do so, seeing as how the booking wasn't until August, so he could likely get another booking for those dates, but he isn't under any obligation to do so. 

The longer you don't cancel, the longer the host's calendar stays blocked, so he couldn't get another reservation. A lot of hosts would reimburse you the other 50% if they could get the dates rebooked ( I have my doubts that this guy would, but did he or you ever even talk about that?)

As you say, the host's behavior is dodgy. He wants to keep the 50% now and have you pay in cash the other half for a new date. This is something that some hosts and guests might be able to work out, but like you, I wouldn't trust this guy- he could just keep the 50% and never let you book other dates at all.

But that doesn't negate the fact that the cancellation is yours to make and you can fight with Airbnb about getting a full refund, if they think you qualify, which at this point it doesn't sound like they do. The bottom line is, if you book a place with a strict policy, you have to be prepared to lose 50% if things don't work out for you to make the trip. I don't know how much this place cost, but is a 50% loss, split between all the people who were on this reservation, really that much that it's worth battling over? 

[Anonymous]

@Liam1503   Given the circumstances you describe, your February booking date, and your August check-in date, you might want to wait and see if Airbnb  extends its eligibility window for Covid-related Extenuating Circumstances cancellations (currently, it only applies to stays beginning up to 30 June - more info here .

Two things are key here:

1. Guests may request changes to a confirmed booking, but hosts are not required to accept them. The fact that the rescheduling feature exists on the platform is not relevant here. Your contract is for specific dates, and nothing in it stipulates that either party must honor a date change.

2. Hosts are not responsible for conditions that prevent their guests from travelling. The Covid-related exemptions to the cancellation policies are ultimately decided by Airbnb. If you believe you should be entitled to one in lieu of appropriate travel insurance, your beef is with Airbnb.

Your host's so-called "threat" was only that he would honor the Strict cancellation policy that you agreed to when you placed the booking. Clearly it's your feeling that you deserve all your money back, but that wasn't a part of the deal that you voluntarily entered into.

[David6824]

@Liam1503 

First of all do all messages exchange through the airbnb platform, this way they will have evidence of your probs and solve it quicker. They did 30% cuts so do not expect to hold on phone less than 30mins.

Second if your host asked you to cancel do not do it or you'll lose the airbnb fee around 20%. He asked you because the "punishment" could be for the host if he cancels for the third time in a year to lose the page rank and superhost points.

[Jessica-and-Henry0]

@Liam1503 

If your intended check-in date for said booking was Aug 1, 2020 then technically speaking as of now, the host has nothing to *refund*. The host hasn't received a dime of your money......it's being held by Airbnb, and they will hold onto it until Aug 1st. If you cancel before that date, Airbnb will issue a payout after the intended check in date based on how much the host is due per the cancellation policy - the host has no authority or power to determine how much they receive. It is all up to Airbnb. 

People in your group being first responders or being in a risk group has nothing to do with getting a refund that goes against the cancellation policy you agreed to when you booked. If Airbnb feels you qualify for the covid-19 EC, then they will cancel and issue the refund regardless of what the host said or thinks. Clearly, even Airbnb doesn't think you meet the criteria for covid-19 EC.... so why should the host? 

[Mike-And-Jane0]

@Sarah977 @Anonymous @Liam1503 

As the host is not able to defend himself I shall be devils advocate and lay out the options below. Having done this it is clear to me that there is too little knowledge here to actually tell who is in the right and who is wrong. 

Guest cancels

If the guest cancels then Airbnb will keep their booking fee and the host will get his 50%.

Host cancels

Guest gets their 50% back and the booking fee. Host gets nothing, penalised $50-100, and calendar blocked

Guest cancels and host offers new stay next year for cash

either: Host gets 50% upon old check in date, Airbnb get their fees, Hosts gets other 50% next year (saving his 3% fee unless Airbnb take the full 3% form the first payout). Hosts calendar unblocked this year

or: Hosts gets his 50%, Airbnb get their fees, host reneges on promise of 50% discounted stay next year. Hosts calendar unblocked this year.

Things we don't know from each side:

Guest:

a) What is the date of travel? Even Boris is trying to get UK up and running in July/August and talking about bringing this forward so travel may be fine by then. 

b) Has the guest requested a date change to next year?

Host:

a) Why not allow a date change to next year through Airbnb. Upside is calendar for this year will be released, downside is money will not go to him until next year.

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

The answer to how much the host has paid hasn’t yet been addressed.

A cash strapped Host falling foul of an imposed block cancellation would sure want to keep his 50% cancellation fee. Offering the guest a half price booking at a later date would leave the guest with a satisfactory result if it had gone that way.

However, that sort of offer Being made to a Guest and with the communication where it is now, I doubt the Host would  want the Guest staying.

The best outcome the Guest can expect here is either not paying the final balance, or receiving back only 33% of total payments after AirBnb fees and Host cancellation is taken into account.

That Host offer now seems incredibly fair where no such offer was needed.

[Sarah977]

@Mike-And-Jane0 @Ian-And-Anne-Marie0  As I said, the host has the right to enforce his cancellation policy unless Airbnb overrules that. What is sketchy about all this is that the host refuses to let the guest make a date alteration through Airbnb, which it sounds like the guest would have been amenable to. If I were a guest, this wouldn't sit right with me at all, because the guest has no assurance that the host would honor this deal he is proposing in the future. 

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Sarah977 @Mike-And-Jane0 

When you have been driven to desperate financial need because you've had your strict cancellation policy overruled and no income, getting cash in for any host is like the giving of vouchers by Airbnb. Unlike Airbnb, the host isn't sat on pots of guests' cash. Maybe the host thought that Airbnb might not be here next year and he needed to affirm an income from somewhere?

[Sarah977]

@Ian-And-Anne-Marie0  Whatever the host's reason for refusing to make a date alteration through the platform is, it's immaterial. The guest would have no assurance that the host would honor the promise to follow through on this. The host has already proven to be untrustworthy by first telling the guest that he would refund them in full, and then reneging on that.

[Liam1503]

You hit the nail on the head Sarah. We were happy to postpone our trip and travel in 2021 instead. The host seems happy about us coming back next year but refuses to follow the Airbnb protocol and instead is asking for payment outside of the app, this raises red flags for me.  

[Anonymous]

@Sarah977  This is the rare occasion in which I strongly disagree with you.

There are thousands of hosts at the moment with very compelling reasons to consider severing their ties with Airbnb, whether out of financial desperation or frustration with the many problems that you're well aware of. Despite a relationship with this company going back 10 years, I can say the same for myself - under no circumstances right now would I consider committing to an Airbnb booking in 2021. So I can't blame a host who's trying to resolve a dispute over a 2020 booking for avoiding being stuck with this platform well into the future.

On top of that, as you well know, hosts always have to consider the impact of retaliatory reviews. Look back at all of @Liam1503 's messages trying to use this community to suss out how his host could be punished for the crime of not throwing money at him when he wanted out of his contract. If such a person started harassing you for a refund, how much of a hurry would you be in to re-book them in your property through a system they could use to punish you with a 1-star rating further down the line? 

The way I see it, if you find yourself groveling for a special exception from a contract that you agreed to, you aren't in a position to dictate the terms of whatever leeway is being handed your way. If you don't like the offer you get, or you don't trust its veracity (which certainly applies here), then you revert to the original terms of the agreement. What you don't do is start demanding new entitlements because you thought you deserved an even more generous exceptional offer.

[Sarah977]

@Anonymous  Yes, I hear you on that- the host may very well not trust that Airbnb won't fold and then he'll not get paid at all. Then there's the well-warranted wariness hosts have about accepting a date alteration since a guest will often use that to then turn around and cancel entirely, because the new dates now allow them to get a larger refund.

What I don't understand though, if the guest is telling the truth, is that it seems the host first told the guest that he would, in fact, refund him in full, considering the circumstances, but then refused to when Airbnb called him. To me, that is where the trouble started and made the guest mad- it would certainly not dispose me to want to trust that the host would honor a future reservation. Had the host not changed tack, there might not have been such rancor and the host and guest might have been able to work things out amicably.

[Anonymous]

@Sarah977  Then the most relevant detail, which none of us can possibly know, is what transpired in the call between the host and Airbnb's service operator. We can only guess at this. Maybe the host didn't find a mutual cancellation acceptable on the terms offered by Airbnb. Maybe he was annoyed by Airbnb pleading for money on the guest's behalf rather than supporting him as a host. Maybe whatever led the guest to believe that the host agreed to a full refund was actually a miscommunication or misunderstanding.

That detail might have been relevant in making a judgment of the host's character and reliability, but that point is now moot considering that the guest and host are now on mutually disagreeable terms. An initial attempt at renegotiating the terms of an agreement has failed, and regardless of who is to blame for that breakdown, the appropriate thing to do would be to revert to the original terms of the booking.

Those terms happen to be the ones that form the core of the guest's objection, as he believes the policy he agreed to shouldn't apply to him in practice. 

[Fred13]

@Sarah977 Your whole post is based on what the guest said happened, or an interpretation of (aka the premise), but I for one find this case a bit disjointed because it is like 4 angles at play at the same time: wanting full refund based on some of the member being support personnel, then resorting on a written promise of full refund from the host, then bringing up the odd method of future payment and the punishment of, and finally the host refusing to roll the reservation into the future. Hmmm.