Host refuses to refund guest despite BLACK MOLD found in home!

[Hillary-and-Adam0]

I'm absolutely furious! 

My mother and I checked into an Airbnb in Granada after a long trip from Chicago, through London & Malaga, to Granada.  We were eager to check in and get settled and relax.  However, I noticed water on the floor of the kitchenette (and the bed wasn't far from there -- it was a one-room place), and I looked under the sink to see if there was a problem with the pipes, and I found BLACK MOLD all over the back wall where there had clearly been water damage.  We had smelled something musty when we had first entered the place, but figured it was just an old building -- it was the mold! 

Worried that we'd be left homeless for the night, I immediately booked another AirBnB nearby (one that had "instant booking"), and we left.  Once checked into the new AirBnB down the street, I sent the first place's host a polite message saying what we had found, and told him that unfortunately, we would not be able to stay there, and would like a refund.  Well, the guy put up a fight! 

He said I wasn't behaving "correctly," and that I was trying to find things to complain about!  WHY would I want to have to worry about finding another place last-minute like that, if there was no SERIOUS problem with his place?  It makes no sense!  I had taken photos of the water on the floor and the water damage and BLACK MOLD on the wall, and I sent him the photos.  He said, "That's burn."  LOL!!! 

So, he fought me over it, and I told him that if he wouldn't grant the refund for an uninhabitable place, I would involve AirBnB.  So I did.  And after seeing the photos and hearing the description of the premises, THEY REFUSE TO REFUND ME!!!  They said that I didn't abide by the policy of contacting the host and letting him try to resolve the situation!  AS IF YOU COULD RESOLVE BLACK MOLD IN AN HOUR!!!  Black mold is a toxic, serious problem that affects the air quality -- especially for people with asthma like me, which I also told AirBnB -- and it needs to be professionally eradicated, which takes at least a few days.  I told AirBnB that it's not a typical "spill" or something that the host can clean up in a few minutes.  It's a serious problem that would take DAYS to resolve, and my mother and I were only in Granada for a few days! 

And what was I supposed to do, leave us HOMELESS for those 3 days that the host would be resolving his home's MOLD issue???!?!??!  It's so unfair, and I'm absolutely FURIOUS about this.  I tried writing to customer service again, and after a few days, I've received the same response.  I'm incredulous.

Does anyone have any suggestions of how to get through to higher-ups at AirBnB to get this refunded?  And to get this guy reported for renting out MOLDY premises?  I can't believe that they even saw PHOTOS of the mold, and did nothing about it!  I'M SO MAD!

[Jessica-and-Henry0]

I must say...... this post..... the snarky name-calling and all has been so entertaining 🙂 LOL~!!!! and very informative too. 

While I think @Hillary-and-Adam0 probably had good reason to ask for and get a full refund.... based on what I've read here and the fact that ABB almost always sides with the guest..... but in this instance, VERY surprisingly didn't.........

I think the tone of the posts written by the OP are self-explanatory why the guest's *demands* were denied by ABB CS  🙂 No one likes a snarky name-calling know-it-all....... even if what they say is valid and correct. People may forget what you said, but they will never forget how you made them feel. 

[Hillary-and-Adam0]

Well, as I said, my snarkiness was in response to others' comments: it wasn't in a vacuum. So you and others can go ahead and feel all self-righteous about bashing me for my "tone" (um, tone police, anyone?), but you are being presumptuous and simply wrong when you make guesses about my correspondence with the host in the first place. Sure, I was angry when I posted the original post; I was incredulous and, yes, sometimes snarky when I responded to various commenters breaking down every detail of what I said as if they're assistant counsel to Perry Mason ("Mold doesn't grow on plastic -- because *I've* done research!" "That's not a sink leaking as you who have been there and seen it with your own two eyes are saying -- it's water from a mop." etc). But the fact is you don't know what my correspondence with the host was like, and are only throwing out judgment based on this thread's limited context. So I'm glad you've been entertained. I've been quite entertained by this whole fiasco of human reason myself.

[Duane20]

I understand your frustration and agree with others that you did the right thing for your health by not staying there. The problem here, as I see it, is that your post has split into two discussions: Is that black mold and Why didn't I get a refund.  Debating the mold on the internet is futile; you're never going to get everyone to agree with you no matter what.  And by responding to every post that disagrees with you, it just makes it worse.  Is it or is it not black mold was not the point of your post; it was about not getting a refund for a valid reason.  I realize it's not helpful now, but by posting the pictures, you allowed your question to get highjacked.  I don't doubt you have a lot of knowledge about mold since it affects your health, but you're never going to convince others that you're right.  

Your main issue was being denied a refund.  This is where you got helpful information, although it was not what you wanted to hear.  Many other hosts explained why Airbnb denied your claim (not giving the host a chance to rectify the situation).  There's not much more that can be said.  At least one poster suggested trying to call again to speak with someone else as that sometimes produces better results. 

No one on this thread is able to help you obtain your refund; they can only help explain the rules and give you tips to achieve a desired outcome.  And that's what you got.  Unfortunately the focus turned into a mold debate.  I hope you are able resolve this with Airbnb. 

[Mason94]

I am experiencing the opposite of this. By giving my host time to rectify I am told that because the stay is complete I cannot receive a refund. It seems that the guests are in a catch 22 here. 

[Mark116]

@Duane20  You are sort of right here, but, the very fact that airbnb didn't give a refund+the pictures does create some questions.  There are dozens and dozens of examples where guests come up with totally eroneous, bizarre, and fake issues and yet get refunds, sometimes the listing is even suspended or closed.   There are dozens of instances where airbnb will admit the guest is in the wrong and doesn't deserve a refund according to TOS, but they will still press the host to give one.

So, in this case, even though the guest left and rebooked before contacting the host/allowing an opportunity to remediate, it's still pretty unusual that no refund was given, especially given  BLACK MOLD if its' the toxic type, is a legit health issue. Instead, airbnb sided wholly with the host here, unless the listing was suspended or warned and we just don't know it. 

[Duane20]

The intention of my message wasn't about who is right or wrong; it was merely to point out where the original post went south and maybe help the OP.  When one goes looking for help and doesn't get what they were hoping for, emotions often take over which makes everything worse.  People on both sides get defensive and the result is what happened here.  Like I said, none of the hosts responding are able to get the OP a refund.  And we don't have all of the correspondence between the guest/host and guest/Airbnb, so it's all just conjecture.  

While I've been hosting for the past four years, I'm new to using the Airbnb Community.  I came here looking for an answer, saw this post, and found it interesting.  Not sure why I replied, but I guess I was trying to ease the tension.  Maybe that was misplaced.  

[Hillary-and-Adam0]

Not misplaced at all. Thank you for attempting to talk sense. I agree that there were kernels of helpful advice gained from this, as I've said in other comments in this thread. I just wish the advice could have come without all of the rather insulting and certainly frustrating questioning of my own judgment about what's mold and how it grows, what's a leak vs. "mop water," etc. I am a competent homeowner, responsible host, and respectful traveler, who didn't expect people to question something as clear and solid as my judgment on this. And it was indeed insulting that the discussion veered that way from the get-go.

[Robin4]

@Hillary-and-Adam0 

Hillary I have been following this thread of yours from the begining and I have a lot of sympathy for you. What would I do in the same position.....I don't know to be honest.

What I do know is, I host in an altitude environment which is subject to a high level of atmospheric humidity during the colder months of the year. Now my cottage is reverse cycle heated which means the relative humidity is all the time being extracted but I do have to all the time be conscious of mould. And my situation is compounded by the fact that my listing has a library and old books are always going to smell mouldy. I always worry about guests perception of the cottage air, and as well as the air conditioning I have a ducted air filtration system which runs continuously! 

I am no different from most hosts in that I want to provide the best experience for my guests that I can and on a couple of occasions guests have come to me and said they felt like they could see the beginnings of mould in the bathroom area.

I jumped straight onto it and did something about it to everyones satisfaction....I was able to do that Hillary, because the guest told me and gave me a chance.

I would have been mortified if the guest simply up and left and then caned me for something I was not aware of....can you see where I am going?

You have to give us a chance, we may turn out to be a dud, but in most instances we won't and we will do everything possible to put things right.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound overly critical but I am glad I was not that host of yours!

Cheers.....Rob 

[Amos18]

Hahaha wasn't that serious

[Rebecca181]

@Hillary-and-Adam0 Because I have had two dear friends physically destroyed by mold (as in now they are on disability, probably for life) I can understand why you reacted the way you did. Regardless of the details that you are being questioned on, there's one thing I know about Airbnb that I must be ever mindful of as a host and I think you ran into this with Airbnb support: If I don't follow their policies as written, and if I am not able to prove that I did, I am unlikely to convince Airbnb support / case management that I deserve any sort of 'special consideration', whether that be my being able to retain a booking fee, or whether I will need to refund it. 

Therefore, it seems that this is also true for you as a guest - And I have to say, this surprises me very much, as we hosts here on the forums can recount story after story whereby a guest was refunded when even by Airbnb's own policy they should not have been. Perhaps they are deciding to begin adhering to their own policies at Airbnb Corporate - for both guest AND host now? If so, that would really  be something - and might even cause me to consider reactivating my listing again!

[Ben551 · Accepted solution]

I'm going to attempt to tag a few folks in this thread (excuse my incompetence), as I have found something quite helpful in relation to black mould identification.

@Huma @Mark @Rebecca181  @Duane  @Amos18  @Robin4  @Sarah   @Lizzie  @Cathie

@Hillary-and-Adam0 

New Zealand has quite a problem with damp housing, particularly those built in the 1970's through to the 1990's.  The country is also struggling to recover (even 20 years later) from a "leaky home" crisis in the 1990's, which arose from poor building standards and shoddy contruction methods.

All this to say, we know a lot today about black mould and there are regulations that require landlords to deal with it, or face prosecution.  This is extended to even short term let situations.  If you are letting any part of your home, in NZ you are required to "know" (not just assume) that your property is free of toxic black mould spores.

Because of this requirement, a clever guy in Levin (not far north of where I live) invented a home testing kit for Landlords to use, late last year.  This testing kit will allow landlords to confirm, with a degree of certainty that satisfies regulation, whether your particular black mould is a bad one or not. 

Here is the article that describes the invention:  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/103433813/levin-business-readies-launch-of-diy-test-for-toxic...

Here is the website that sells the home testing kit (2 cassettes) for NZD $99 (approx $68 USD): https://www.mednz.co.nz/detect4mould

From the site:  "The Dect4mould Mould Test is simple to use, giving you accurate results in as little as 5 minutes. The tests identify mould species that the U.S. EPA considers to be health concerns for you and your family."

If you are a host and you would like some assurance in regard to mould spores on your property, I recommend you look into getting a home testing kit like this one. 

In theory, if there are mould spores in your property and you have this type of test done, you could offer the test results to future guests... even state in your house manual to reassure guests that testing has been done.  It would certainly make discussions with guests about "what mould is what" easier.

~ Ben

[Rebecca181]

@Ben551 Yes, I know people who test with these home kits, they are relatively accurate, from what others I know have learned (when compared to having a professional brought in who double checks with their own high tech testing methods before they do the 'do-molding' work). 

Two things that one friend discovered: My friend had become ill again with mold symptoms and they had painstakingly checked their home everywhere for (visible) mold and found none. When the mold specialist came in, he pulled their bed which had a headboard away from the wall, and mold was growing on the wall behind my friend's headboard! She is already on disability due to mold-related illness. The inspector said that headboards should never be touching the wall if the other side of the wall is exposed to the great outdoors. Mold was also found growing in all of her potted plants (the kind that can make certain people ill - and there are more than just one type of mold that can do this, although most people think of only 'black mold' in these situations).

Also, mold can look black in appearance and be completely harmless, hence testing is necessary.

[Ben551]

@Rebecca181  that's very useful information! Especially about the headboard touching an externnal wall.  This makes complete sense, now you mention it.  It makes me want to check my own headboard actually... in my Airbnb listing they are all on internal walls, but in my own bedroom it's on an outside wall.  Worth remembering to check this.  I'm not personally satisfied with the level of insulation in our part of the home and it's something we are progressively working on (1930's wood construction).  It's a beautifl 'old girl' but she does need work... since my wife has Asthma I'll be checking behind the headboard regularly from now on!

[Stephanie]

@Hillary-and-Adam0 

@Ben551 has shared some really useful information here, I wonder if you have had a chance to read it?

[Hillary-and-Adam0]

Ben's comments are definitely useful for hosts to make sure their property isn't toxic for guests. In terms of usefulness for me as a guest who chose to leave a moldy home, I think his comments are useful in that they hopefully reach hosts to remind them of the seriousness of an issue like this, so that guests will encounter this type of issue less.

For my part as a guest, I've learned about Airbnb and how they respond to complaints.  I can also see that many of the people who've commented critically here are hosts who've likely heard (or experienced) horror stories about guests. So I understand they're coming from a certain perspective, though I still wish they'd put themselves more in my shoes and believed what I was saying rather than question everything last detail and word as if I were trying to make things up. Why would I take the time to post in the first place if I wasn't sure about (and honest about) the severity of the situation?

I hope that hosts get something out of this thread in terms of accountability and responsibility for their properties. Yes, there are guests out there who try to buck the system. But there are also guests out there who have valid complaints, and I think it's best for everyone if you listen to them, take them seriously, and believe them, instead of defaulting to "how can I invalidate these complaints."

Thanks for your input, Ben.