Host refuses to refund guest despite BLACK MOLD found in home!

[Hillary-and-Adam0]

I'm absolutely furious! 

My mother and I checked into an Airbnb in Granada after a long trip from Chicago, through London & Malaga, to Granada.  We were eager to check in and get settled and relax.  However, I noticed water on the floor of the kitchenette (and the bed wasn't far from there -- it was a one-room place), and I looked under the sink to see if there was a problem with the pipes, and I found BLACK MOLD all over the back wall where there had clearly been water damage.  We had smelled something musty when we had first entered the place, but figured it was just an old building -- it was the mold! 

Worried that we'd be left homeless for the night, I immediately booked another AirBnB nearby (one that had "instant booking"), and we left.  Once checked into the new AirBnB down the street, I sent the first place's host a polite message saying what we had found, and told him that unfortunately, we would not be able to stay there, and would like a refund.  Well, the guy put up a fight! 

He said I wasn't behaving "correctly," and that I was trying to find things to complain about!  WHY would I want to have to worry about finding another place last-minute like that, if there was no SERIOUS problem with his place?  It makes no sense!  I had taken photos of the water on the floor and the water damage and BLACK MOLD on the wall, and I sent him the photos.  He said, "That's burn."  LOL!!! 

So, he fought me over it, and I told him that if he wouldn't grant the refund for an uninhabitable place, I would involve AirBnB.  So I did.  And after seeing the photos and hearing the description of the premises, THEY REFUSE TO REFUND ME!!!  They said that I didn't abide by the policy of contacting the host and letting him try to resolve the situation!  AS IF YOU COULD RESOLVE BLACK MOLD IN AN HOUR!!!  Black mold is a toxic, serious problem that affects the air quality -- especially for people with asthma like me, which I also told AirBnB -- and it needs to be professionally eradicated, which takes at least a few days.  I told AirBnB that it's not a typical "spill" or something that the host can clean up in a few minutes.  It's a serious problem that would take DAYS to resolve, and my mother and I were only in Granada for a few days! 

And what was I supposed to do, leave us HOMELESS for those 3 days that the host would be resolving his home's MOLD issue???!?!??!  It's so unfair, and I'm absolutely FURIOUS about this.  I tried writing to customer service again, and after a few days, I've received the same response.  I'm incredulous.

Does anyone have any suggestions of how to get through to higher-ups at AirBnB to get this refunded?  And to get this guy reported for renting out MOLDY premises?  I can't believe that they even saw PHOTOS of the mold, and did nothing about it!  I'M SO MAD!

[Hillary-and-Adam0]

My apologies for the insufficient lighting in the water picture, your honor.

There was a small puddle coming from under the cabinet. Given the lighting and the angle, I did my best to show that the water was there.

It wasn't water left from a mop. It wasn't a burn. It wasn't dirt on the pipe. What's that saying about the simplest, most reasonable answer probably being the right one?  Puddle of water coming from under kitchen cabinet + musty smell throughout apartment + black mold on back wall + water-warped shelf in cabinet (with black mold particles there too) = water damage and accompanying mold. It's not rocket science, for Christ's sake.

[Mark1412]

Your mistake was not giving the host a chance to correct the situation.

If it was black mold, it couldn't be fixed in a few minutes but the host might have found alternative ways to resolve the problem. They might have relocated you.. maybe they have another location. Maybe they would have put you up at a hotel. If after you brought it to their attention and they told you, you where crazy and to deal with it, you should have moved out... but in airbnb's eyes you handled this in the wrong order.

You relocated to somewhere safe, you are not experiencing any health issues due to this, so from a health and safety point of view, it appears you did the right thing, by promptly leaving the property... but that still might cost you a few dollars.

I hope you left a review.

[Hillary-and-Adam0]

Yes, I see that now.  More ridiculous bureaucratic red tape to save people's butts from accountability.  But as you said, going off of the "protect my and my mother's health, and make sure we're not left homeless tonight" motivation, I snapped into emergency booking mode, figuring there was no way this host could deny me a refund once he saw the problem. But I'm a reasonable person: it's a blessing and a curse, apparently.

[Mark116]

I don't think this is black mold.

The stuff on the pipes look like plain old dirt, and not very dirty at that.  The black spot in the cabinet, it's hard to say, but it would seem odd that mold would grow only such a specific jagged pattern, so it may be the host is correct that is a burn mark or something other than mold.  

I'm surrpised airbnb didn't reimburse you, since they almost always side with the guest.

[Hillary-and-Adam0]

It's definitely black mold.  I've seen black mold before, and I'm fully aware of the difference between black mold and a "burn."

The photos I took were of the spot that was easily visible by looking in the cabinet.  The water damage was clearly behind the cabinet, where the pipe was coming out.  So God knows what mold was there that wasn't visible!  It's no wonder the place smelled like musty old basement.

You can Google images of "black mold," and see that it looks just like the photos I submitted to this host and to AirBnB.  Same look, same location.  It's absurd to think it's anything else!

And I've been a host too -- many times.  So I don't think of things in terms of "hosts vs. guests," as a few people in this thread and in this community group seem to think.  I'm looking at it from both sides, and from the simple angle that it's unsanitary and unsafe to expect people to sleep a few feet away from black mold!

[Hillary-and-Adam0]

By the way, for all of you who are saying "it's not mold," "mold can't grow on plastic," and "I'd have just wiped it off with a cloth," here's a video to learn a little something about what this is:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vRWeyWhBjE

[Sarah977]

@Hillary-and-Adam0  FYI- mold doesn't grow on plastic. What mold grows on is organic material. Meaning dirt. So if those drain pipes were dirty, then yes, mold will grow there. Mold is very prevalent in tropical places, it's unavaoidable. It requires constant cleaning, wiping down with bleach, etc, to keep it at bay. I agree that no guest should have to stay somewhere that smells musty and moldy. But if you and your mom are that sensitive to it, I'd suggest you not travel to any tropical locales, or only book high-end places with AC and dehumidifiers that are closed up to the elements..

[Hillary-and-Adam0]

I've traveled to tropical places and used Airbnb for those travels, and everything was absolutely lovely. My unwillingness to subject myself and my mother to a musty, moldy, falsely represented Airbnb place does not mean I'm "sensitive" to such things. It means I expect basic standards in a living space -- like no mold filling the air I'm breathing as I sleep -- and this host simply didn't abide by those basic, reasonable standards. I think most people in my shoes would have felt the same way -- like I've been ripped off.

[Alexandra316]

@Hillary-and-Adam0"Resolultion" doesn't nescessarily mean getting rid of the mould (if that's what it is): it could mean relocating you to a hotel or other location. You said in your original post that you didn't contact your host until after you had already moved, so you gave them no opportunity to help you until after you had already made your own arrangements.You have no idea how quickly the host would have responded or what their resolution would have been, because you didn't contact them until after the fact. You make a bunch of conjectures about how the interaction would have gone, but you didn't give that a chance to play out at all. If you have hosted a property previously, would you not want to be contacted to make something right before being asked for a refund? If I was the host in this situation and someone not only cancelled but tried to get a full refund for key dates on my calendar, I think I'd likely be a bit taken aback also. Maybe they have checked it out since your departure and found that it's not black mould: do you still feel that you would be entitled to a refund if that was the finding?

[Hillary-and-Adam0]

Clearly, I posted in the wrong forum.  I cannot expect reasonable discussion from biased hosts who think subjecting guests to black mold is okay.

As I've said elsewhere in this thread, it was late and I didn't have time to mess around with the host's attempts to "resolve" a health problem that couldn't be resolved in one night.  I would have had to book another place regardless, so why am I the bad guy for doing just that?

[Alexandra316]

@Hillary-and-Adam0 Nowhere has anyone said that it's okay to subject guests to toxic mould. Not one host here said that. What everyone has said is that you didn't give the host any opportunity to make it right or do anything to help you: you just left and asked for your money back. That was your choice: you didn't give your host or Airbnb any other options to help you. If the decision helped you and your mom, I think that's great, but it still doesn't exempt you from the consequences of how you chose to deal with it. 

[Mark116]

@Hillary-and-Adam0 There are all kinds of mold, including mold that is black that isn't the infamously toxic 'black mold'.  The typical mold around say a bathtub is almost never the highly toxic 'black mold'.

A black colored mold has a black pigment by nature. It is usually associated with being the toxic kind, but that’s not always the case. Black mold may not be toxic, but it can be an allergenic.

Nigrospora is an example of a black colored mold.

There is no evidence it is toxic to humans or other living organisms.

The most common black mold is Cladosporium, which has no known toxic side effects. This type of mold is common both inside and outside of the home. Heavy exposure to black mold could trigger an increase in allergy and asthma symptoms.

Other black molds include Alternaria, Aureobasidium, Dresclera, Pithomyces, Stemphylium, and Ulocladium.

None of these are toxic molds that produce mycotoxins,  but Altermaria can cause severe allergy symptoms.

[Hillary-and-Adam0]

Yes, I'm aware of all of this.  And with my asthma, and my mother's asthma and allergies, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that it's unhealthy to have to sleep a few feet away from whatever type of mold you want to call what's under the sink on the wall.

If you don't believe my perspective/experience as a homeowner who's seen various kinds of mold, here's a video of the type of mold that was in this room:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vRWeyWhBjE

[Mark116]

@Hillary-and-Adam0 

That guy in the video doesn't have any idea whether that black mold is toxic or not, but it's his profession to scare homeowners into expensive remediation of whatever mold there is, LOL.

Based on the photo, the black on the pipes to me does not at all look like mold, certainly whatever it is, yes, it could have been easily wiped away with any standard cleaner. 

I can't tell what is on the back of the cabinet, whether it is mold or something else....but since airbnb is almost always guest friendly, especially regarding anything that is health or liability related, my guess is that you are wrong here, that the host sent a more close up photo and it wasn't any kind of mold.....in which case, your leaving of the listing before contacting the host would be the primary reason that you weren't refunded, with the second reason being that what you think is mold is not mold, if it were, then airbnb would almost surely have refunded you and closed the guy's listing until he spent hundreds on proving that there was no toxic mold in the unit.

I'm sorry you had a bad time but it seems to me you overreacted.  

[Jonathan2582]

How can you possibly judge if a certein mold is toxic to someone else?

She mentioned having a asthmatic response.

personally im also sensitive to certein molds.

I have checked into many Airbnb appartments in the last decades that i had to leave immediately from breathing issues causes by the presence of mold spores in the air.

As it happens to be so , one of these cases was yesterday.

(how i found this thread)

I walked in and immediately got hit by a strong damp moldy scented air. 

A few minutes later i got a dull pain in the throat that spread to the lungs. 

The air had a sharpness to it, similar to breathing in the vapor while frying hot chilis. 

I couldn't stay any longer and had to leave promptly.

however i stayed as long as i could with all windows open to make pictures of the mold.

there were little black spots all over the ceiling edges.   

the host also is refusing to give a refund for any of the 3 days, even though i was there just a very short while.

they equally later mentioned sending someone to clean it.

well good luck , because with mold the entire wall has to be removed (as far as the mold has penetrated) and completely replastered.  additionally a treatment with chlorine dioxide gas is necessary to kill remaining spores.

after that the appartment ought to rest a few months before reanalysis can be done to confirm it has been eradicated and hasn't returned.

To return to the matter, do you think i care what science will say regarding analysis of this particular mold species?

The body is the finest instrument in existence, it has the sensitivity to recognise certein dangers that science hasn't been able to achieve yet,  or confirms later on. (if ever)

Now are You going to stay in a clearly highly toxic environment that your body is in agony in just because science says this or that thing you are subjected to has been tested as safe? (for now)

There have been countless of chemicals recommended to people in the past that slowly or quickly killed people, long banned now yet were deemed safe at one point. (and some still are, glyphosate for example should have been banned ages ago)

Henceforth, you cannot possibly judge if a certain natural or human made chemical is toxic to someone, even if you don't react to it yourself.   

One persons immune system could be more apt at destroying the pathogen or neutralizing the chemical intrusion inside your body before any mayor symptoms rise up.

Whilst others may not have sufficient white blood cells or minerals at their disposal to do this and they notice the physical (and possible mental/cognitive) effects of a particular toxin immediately, with force. 

instead of labelling them as crazy only to realise later they were right lets extend more respect to the sensitive ones of humanity.

you can call them the canaries in the coal mine.

In the case of black mold it is well known this causes Mast cell activition syndrome, which can quickly be life threatening due to anaphylactic shock.

And yet ' Oh science says its safe and Airbnb won't even consider a refund to those affected.

that's the world we live in..

Lets be the change and judge less, instead inform people with wisdom.

Lastly a short article on the particular matter of MCBMS:

Mast Cell Black Mold Shock Syndrome (MCBMS) is a condition where exposure to black mold (Stachybotrys chartarum) triggers an overactive response from mast cells, leading to a severe and potentially life-threatening reaction. This syndrome is often associated with Mast Cell Activation Syndrome (MCAS), a condition characterized by excessive release of histamine and other chemical mediators from mast cells.

Symptoms

Common symptoms of MCBMS include:

• Severe allergic reactions, such as anaphylaxis
• Respiratory distress, including wheezing, coughing, and shortness of breath
• Cardiovascular instability, including rapid heartbeat, low blood pressure, and shock
• Neurological symptoms, such as confusion, disorientation, and loss of consciousness
• Gastrointestinal issues, including nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea
• Skin symptoms, including hives, itching, and flushing

Triggers

Black mold (Stachybotrys chartarum) is a common trigger for MCBMS. When mold spores are inhaled, they can bind to mast cells, leading to an excessive release of histamine and other chemical mediators. This reaction can be exacerbated by factors such as:

• High levels of mold exposure
• Pre-existing mast cell disorders or sensitivities
• Co-infections with other pathogens
• Stress and environmental toxins

Treatment

Treatment for MCBMS typically involves a multidisciplinary approach, including:

• Mold remediation and removal from the environment
• Mast cell stabilizers and antihistamines to reduce histamine release
• Corticosteroids and other immunosuppressive medications to reduce inflammation
• Antifungal therapy to address underlying fungal infections
• Supportive care, including oxygen therapy, cardiac monitoring, and fluid management

Prevention

Preventing MCBMS requires identifying and addressing potential mold exposure sources, such as:

• Water damage and leaks
• High humidity and poor ventilation
• Contaminated building materials and furnishings
• Presence of pets or plants that can harbor mold

Individuals with a history of mast cell disorders or sensitivities may benefit from taking preventive measures, such as:

• Regular mold testing and monitoring
• Use of HEPA filters and dehumidifiers
• Avoiding areas with suspected mold growth
• Wearing personal protective equipment when cleaning or renovating

It is essential to work with a healthcare provider experienced in treating mast cell disorders and mold-related illnesses to develop a personalized treatment plan and prevent future episodes of MCBMS.