WWYD: odd? guest claims he didn't understand that place to yourself didn't mean the entire building

[Kenneth12]

Hold on tight or get off now,    this one is an odd twister:

I am unsure what to think of the verbose correspondence I have received from a recent instant book (IBed yesterday).

Luke (name changed) began with a longish accompanying his IB,  about how he had read everything,   loved the place,  project (I don’t think 90% of our guests even get to that part),   etc -- and would like to help us any way he can.   

After sending a short follow-up,   as I was settling into a nice chair overlooking the Ionian Sea,   I received the below (guest messages in italics,   WHY OH WHY CAN'T WE HAVE A QUOTE FUNCTION HERE?)

Note the “it may be that I cannot stay there,  but help in another way.”  This seems to me kind of odd.  (We do occasionally get people offering to exchange work for housing,  which is not in any way really wanted;  however,  a little Googling shows that this person is claiming to be an engineer with a $108K/year university salary;   the misspellings are also concerning …)

The parts about “if other people are there” are a tad concerning as well.

I’ve reviewed our listing and think it clearly says it’s a second floor flat,  NO STOVE.   Other than a few multi-million dollar properties,  I’m not sure there are any single-family structures within nearly a mile of our location at the edge of UChicago.   Much less for the price,  which is about 1/3 what we’d charge without Covid.

I could be wrong,   but none of the 5 guests we’ve had since Covid,  appear to have misunderstood anything but “second floor flat.”

I know where I’m tending on this one at this point,  especially given some of the tone,   but is there anyone who would try to rescue this reservation?  Thoughts?

LUKE

Hi, again, Kenneth,

I did not see the part about not stove’. Hmmm. The rest is very ok. Both myself and Betty planned to shop and cook. I am not sure what to say about this - for this $800+, no stove or cooking ability is a big difference, especially because we rarely eat out, and love fresh markets & cooking. Let me think about this a bit - I appreciate your honesty. Wow, such a great place - hope I can think of something...thanks again for this clarification that I missed - ‘you will have entire home’ - I really will read everything carefully again. I will get back in touch. - Luke [name changed]

ME:
Hi again Luke,

Yes, -- we removed the "stove" option from the listing when Covid began,  and added the parts about access to  NO STOVE only microwave and minifridge   We had been letting guests in the upstairs unit go downstairs to use the stove in the downstairs unit prior to Covid,  as well as use the stove there.

We've been meaning to add an era-appropriate gas stove upstairs for some time, but it hasn't happened yet. Let me look around and see if there is some kind of solution that we could work, that might work as a "work-around."
Thanks, Ken

UPDATE: keeping things simpler, I'm wondering how much cooking equipment would be needed? Perhaps something like the following would work, if the link goes through?
[link to $350 flat,  child-safe countertop cooking burner unit on Amazon]

LUKE:
Hi, Kenneth - thanks for the effort. I re-read everything carefully; I figured that ‘entire home’ during COVID meant 1st & 2nd floor, it is hard to follow the description now as I try to differentiate what is on 1st and what is on 2nd and what we have access to. I figured we would care for everything carefully. Now, I still can’t tell if we are there alone or not.

Yes, I do read carefully, and I figured I’d ask if we were alone - yet, that one line about ‘No Stove’ seemed not important since you said there is a complete kitchenette available - I thought that meant a kitchen. Yes, of course I can hook up gas appliances, very easily. However, I am moving with all of my things, and planning to look around Chicago for a place to live and relax with my friend. I am afraid there is a misunderstanding. Again, I need time to super-review now - I don’t know why I cannot differentiate if other people are there or not, it’s just not clear who is where. Please give me today to re-evaluate - it is not personal, normally Betty and I would 100% support a work in progress and helping out, yet we are trying to understand why we misunderstood this. It might be that we cannot stay there, but can help in another way. I am sorry I am working right now...let me get back to you about your proposal and my thoughts. I am very surprised at this - it’s a long drive time arrive to no cooking possible. In some cases, ok, but not this trip with my friend. I also expected the ‘do the dishes’ advice meant you had dishes, pots, pans, silverware. This might not be a great fit, but I don’t want to lose touch. Thank you for your consideration. The ‘Super-Host’ part was important to me, too - I did not expect these misunderstandings so soon. Yet, let me think. Thank you. With kind regards, Luke

ME:
Hi Luke: quick reply: "entire place to yourself" in Airbnb means a place to yourself, House, Apartment, Yurt, etc.

As you many know, buildings in Chicago are typically divided into units, in our neighborhood, often 2-flats (upstairs and down).

In this case, the building has two separate units, upstairs and downstairs.

As is also typical in Chicago, they share a basement laundry, entry, back stairwell, etc. (There's also some refrigerator space at the bottom of the rear stairwell).

(Note, there is a large amenities section in Airbnb listings, which also outlines what items a listing offers).

LUKE

19:03

I know these things, Kenneth

19:09

I understand your explanations more now. Your writing honestly implies some type of access to 1st floor things, so that is very confusing - and that is why my initial question if otherwise are there. Plus, much of the write-up is about pre-COVID, so it’s definitely hard to put all together. Normally, I ALWAYS contact the host before booking, but when you said the whole place was available, I assumed 1st floor access & kitchenette, thinking you were scaling back. No problem! Except the stove thing is tough. I use my kitchen. So, thanks for redefining everything - it was not necessary to inform me of AirBnB definitions. This is my fault for making assumptions by piecing together your pre-COVID and post-COVID comments with those additional things you didn’t want to write, and reaching wrong conclusions.

Again, I will get back to you later. Thanks again for the effort. It is 10:10 am here in Seattle. I will be in touch. Luke

...if other people are there...

Note the immediately preceding message is not edited except to replace the name with 'Luke'.  It literally ends with a one-line,   "... if other people are there..."

[Sarah977]

@Kenneth12  "Luke- here's the deal. You will not be able to cook full meals on a stove because there is no stove in the apartment and no access to the 1st floor due to COVID. That's just how it is. Yes, of course other people live in the building- it's an apartment! The second floor apartment is a private unit- when you  close the door, you are alone in there, no one else has access. Just like all apartments. And just like most other apartments, they share a back stairwell, a front door to the building and a staircase. And the laundry facilities are in the basement and shared with other tenants.

 All that said, being able to prepare full meals seems to be quite important to you, so I suggest you look for a place that has a full kitchen, instead."

Luke is a piece of work. Exactly how many hours does he expect you to spend answering his redundant messages? If he stays, you're going to be getting novellas from him on a daily basis 😜. He's going to be offering to "help" with all sorts of things. I had a house sitter from hell once- she set me almost daily emails listing all the things she wanted to change in my place so it would "work better". Everything she suggested would have resulted in some disaster because she was clueless about why things were set up as they are.

Aside from that, it does sound, at least by his messages, that you updated some information on your listing due to COVID, but have some conflicting info you didn't rewrite that could make it somewhat confusing?

[Kenneth12]

@Sarah977 :

The listing is here:  https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/43558366

Unless I'm missing something,  until I mentioned the first floor access in my follow-up message,  I'm not sure how he would have known about it unless he has been looking at other listings,   possibly in the past.

I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking this is somewhat of a hot mess.   I messaged ABB yesterday,  and am waiting for a reply from them.

The idea that someone is going to "take care" of my place is ... nothing like someone whose attitude is that they can do better,   and therefore they are entitled to make decisions for you.  My sense here is that allowing this reservation would be that,  in spades.

Public profile here is 5 paragraphs ... about how low-impact he is,  how he travels light,   etc etc.   By itself it might be OK,  but combined with the above,  it's red flags to me.

[Helen350]

@Kenneth12 You have my sympathy! - WHY are people SO demanding?!!! - Makes me mad that an ENTIRE flat/apartment is not good enough for some, they want all the surrounding apartments too!  - Inna had the same thing recently in Chicago, I recall....!

Other hosts have concluded that those OVER keen to have no neighbours, are really after a set for a porn shoot...... ????

[Helen350]

@Kenneth12 - @Sarah977 's suggested note to guest is spot on! 🙂

[Kenneth12]

@Helen350 : when googling this guy's name and location,  I did find someone advertizing that they were an amateur photographer looking for models to shoot "in their basement."   Couldn't be absolutely sure,  but it's not a common name and along with other red flags here,    it doesn't help the case IMHO.

[Mike-And-Jane0]

@Kenneth12 I realise you are very clever but perhaps you need to edit the captions on the photos to make the listing clearer.

[Alexandra316]

@Kenneth12 Am I missing something? Your listing does say it's an entire house. Check it out: 

It says it's an entire house/entire home listing.

I also host an apartment in my house, and it says Entire apartment. 

This guest's messages do seem odd and they might trigger some red flags, but after reviewing your listing, I do understand why the guest is confused. You also say on the kitchen picture that there is a full kitchen downstairs. That implies to me that there is access: otherwise why would you mention it? 

[Kenneth12]

The above text is produced by Airbnb,  not myself.   It is not an apartment in an apartment building,  nor an apartment attached to a house.  Airbnb asks the dwelling type,  then produced this if you choose entire space,  right?   Plenty of "houses" are attached, right?    You don't list a flat in a block in London as an apartment,  right?

Some of the captions may indeed  be out of date;   thanks for catching that;  changing now.

What category would you put this in,   when going through ABB's prompts?

[Alexandra316]

@Kenneth12 Your place would be an apartment or secondary unit/guest suite. It's not an entire house: it may be located in a house, but that doesn't make it a whole house. You can split as many hairs as you want and blame Airbnb, but if book a listing that says it's an entire house - which is what your place is listed as - I'm expecting an entire house.

[Kenneth12]

Your point is made,   but that would also disqualify many of the properties I've stayed in that are listed in the same way.

This is not an apartment building,  it's a house.   I'll look over ABB's categories again,   but the ABB system as I remember asks you to list the type of property and spits this out-- in fact,  what I did here was convert a shared listing to "entire place."

Note,  the first line of my description is:

"This is a 2nd floor flat with 2 available bedrooms.in a classic Chicago 1905 2-flat red-brick/brownstone."   Your point is made,  but there is a question of "how do you get that you're getting two floors out of that?"

and while I indeed can see the potential reason for confusion,    none of 10 previous guests,   with far less experience,   seemed to miss that.  

[Alexandra316]

@Kenneth12 Then it would be a secondary unit. I think apartment would also be fine, personally: it's an apartment in a house.

I haven't stayed in as many Airbnbs as you, but my preferred places to stay are guest suites. I have never encountered a place that's located in someone's house that's listed as a whole house. A whole home, absolutely, if it's self-contained. 

[Kenneth12]

Thanks.   

I don't know what you're seeing,   but my interface for this listing doesn't offer an option for apartment in a house,  nor apartment at all (only 'flat').     Nor secondary unit--- oops,   I see 'secondary unit' as a main option,   but that's not this property.   The property is a house.

I'd prefer 'flat' under 'house' in this case,  but that doesn't exist-- all the options under "house" for property type,  essentially imply entire house at this point.   I've thus chosen 'flat' in a 'flat',  as odd as that seems,     in order to remove possibility for further confusion.

(AFAIK,   there were not two layers of options under "property type" when I set this up,  there now are.  The property type here is a 'house'  with yard,   garage etc not an apartment building;   it should be possible to list a flat in a house and not have the interface spit out "entire house,"    but that doesn't seem to be possible at the moment.)

The sub-options once you've chosen these are "entire place,"   "private room,"  or "shared room."    

[Emilia42]

It may not mean that the 10 previous guests "got it," it could just mean that they are flexible and it didn't bother them. This guy is obviously bothered.

Like @Alexandra316 I have 2 spaces that are attached units that sit like houses with private entrances and all. I think it's wise to list them and refer to them as "Apartments." Even the main house I list as an apartment. People associate an apartment as "shared with other renters" regardless of how private. So guests arrive and have more privacy than expected they will be pleasantly surprised. 

It sounds like this guy has booked but his trip has not yet happened? I would offer him a refund in full to cancel. I can tell this will be the first round of messages in a very, very long message thread throughout this stay.

[Huma0]

---

@Kenneth12 wrote:

You don't list a flat in a block in London as an apartment,  right?

---

@Kenneth12 

Well, actually you do. A flat or apartment here means exactly the same thing. Apartment sounds a bit smarter that's all. So, people would probably say 'Council flat', but an agent would market a flat in a high end block as an 'apartment'. Both could technically be called a flat OR an apartment and any Londoner would know what that meant. It would definitely not mean an entire house.

Whether it's in a huge block or a small house that's split into two apartments, it's still a flat/apartment, not a house.

If I were you, I would keep 'entire place' as the guests have the apartment to themselves, but change it from 'entire house' to 'entire apartment', otherwise it is misleading.