What does "no smoking" mean???

[Willow3]

So, I'm left wondering... when I listed my property and check "no smoking" - that meant to me, that there was to be no smoking, inside or out.  But as I read the forums, many interpret it to mean no smoking indoors only.  

I just had a guest chain smoke on the patio - and I feel he didn't follow the house rules.  But maybe I'm alone in this thinking?

[Helen3]

If you put smoking allowed it means the guest can smoke on any communal area in or outside of the home. @Marcelle-and-Davog0 

He did follow your house rules you said smoking allowed.

If you don't want people to smoke inside you need to put no smoking and then add in your house rules that guests are allowed to smoke on the verandah.

[Kevin1322]

If it's in the house rules no smoking anywhere on the property inside or out then he's broke your rules.

As a current smoker myself (quit, resume, quit again rinse repeat) I would take a simple No Smoking rule as "not inside or where the smoke will blow in".

I smoke outside my own property and we've put a seating area away from the house with an ash tray for guests who may want a smoke. So it's pretty clear cut.

If I stayed at a no smoking place and there wasn't an ash tray outside somewhere I would take it as a cue to go for a walk in the neighbourhood.

Refraining for smoking isn't hard. I recently travelled from Germany through Holland, Belgium and France to catch a ferry with my son in the car without smoking.

We had however been staying in a hotel with a no smoking policy but with a patio and garden with ash trays.  So I imagine your guest was working on a "hotel" version of non smoking.

I can see your problem, cigar smoke smells take a while to clear so you wouldn't want him doing it on check out day for fear of upsetting the next guest, and obviously if you live there yourself he ought to have asked.

I would include smoking anything (including weed) as smoking, and we don't have it inside.

[Robin4]

@Kevin1322  @Helen3 @Marcelle-and-Davog0  @Virginia246 

Years ago I was up there with the best as far as smoking was concerned. At one stage back in the 80's  we were spending more a week on cigarettes than we were for the house mortgage!

One night mid June 1992 we both smoked our last cigarette, haven't touched one since, I also used to smoke the odd joint or two as most of my generation did, so I have had a bit of experience with both sides of this smoking issue.

To a non smoker one of the worst smells imaginable is to walk into an elevator with a smoker who has just butted out a cigarette.....it is truly the smell from hell!! Whether it's cigarette or pot, it's the smell from hell. 

When we state in our listing description our cottage is a non smoking facility we have to emphasise that the comfort of our future guests must be respected. That's not saying they can't smoke on the property, to think a smoker will not find a way of sneaking a puff or two somewhere is simply naive. I know, been there, done that!

I provide an outdoor area complete with an ashtray and, I also provide next to that ashtray a mouth-spray which I have found neutralizes that horrible smokers breath reasonably effectively, and I ask all smokers to use that mouth spray before re-entering the listing. I also point out that cigarette detector alarm on the ceiling which doesn't discriminate as to whether it's cigarette smoke or marijuana smoke....

The cottage is a smoke free facility and there is no law that will make me relax that.

It works OK, they seem to respect it.

You can't do anything about that smell on the belongings they brought with them but at least the cottage filtration can take care of that reasonably quickly once they have departed. It's the full on first or second hand smokers air that is the main issue.

I am not aware that you can refuse a guest simply on the grounds they are smokers. You can set rules you expect them to adhere too but, you can't prevent them from booking.  It contravenes Airbnb's anti discrimination policy. You can't refuse the elderly because they can't handle a flight of steps, you can only 'advise' them of the listings description. You can't refuse a disabled request, you have to point out again what you offer, but the final decision in these cases rests with the guest, not the host! 

If someone says they have a reason to enable them to introduce an airborne substance into your property, simply respond and say the property physically won't allow it, it will trigger an alarm system, sorry, you will have to search somewhere else!

Cheers......Rob

[Courtney420]

So—if a listing says “no smoking”, I assume (unless otherwise indicated) that smoking outside is allowed.
I’m probably one of the “last smokers” generation in the U.S.—born in ‘78, didn’t smoke until I was 18, and have smoked in varying amounts over the last 20 or so years. Now I smoke only in the evening with cocktails/wine, and before bed. I am very respectful of the wishes of hosts and if I saw “no smoking” signs on the patio or outdoors I would move further away. But I do think it’s over the top to prohibit smoking outdoors. Chainsmokers have largely gone the way of the Dodo, but there is a large population that enjoys a cigarette or two at night with a drink while on vacation. I think most hosts understand this and are chill about it. I would never want to book someplace that was so ultra puritanical about cigarette smoke that it was prohibited outside. As someone else pointed out, we’re *fine* sucking in car and city fumes, but a waft of cigarette smoke sends some people into fits of despair. It’s weird, and frankly stupid, but hey—anybody renting out their property has the right to make their own rules. 
I do wonder how hard the Airbnb marketing technique is going to have to shift (if it can even survive) in the face of an upcoming generation that tends to live with their parents, doesn’t drive, doesn’t drink (much less smoke!), and doesn’t travel (unless they’re with their parents).

[Courtney420]

Also: there really should be a separate thread on this matter for California rentals. Smoking in CA is looked upon as a crime against humanity (I won’t mention at this point how much devastation has been wreaked upon the earth by their insatiable need for yoga wear). East coast US—different story. People might be annoyed by you smoking but they aren’t going to get puritanical about it. 

[Linda3584]

we are trying to plan a stay at AirBNB in Canada how do I check the policy on smoking?  My brother is a smoker, unfortunately

[Sarah977]

@Linda3584  All listings have a house rules section which Airbnb unhelpfully buries at the bottom of the listing info. You need to scroll down to see the house rules section. 

I can tell you though that there are very few Airbnbs which allow indoor smoking. I'm a home share host who is a smoker myself, so I allow smoking, but not indoors. Hosts are not willing to have to spend 2 days trying to remove the odor of cigarette smoke from the home, which can entail washing down the walls, shampooing the furniture, washing the curtains, etc.

I'm not sure if there is a smoking allowed filter that would only show you properties which allow smoking, but even if there is, you  still have to check the house rules, as the filters don't always work as they should.

[Darran6]

I'm quite surprised by a lot of the answers to this. I'd interpret no smoking as meaning no smoking inside, the same as it means everywhere else really. In hotels this means no smoking inside, go outside to smoke. Same in offices, shops, restaurants, bars. Obviously it is up to individual hosts to decide if they want to have stricter rules and to extend that to outdoors, but I think you're setting yourself up for unnecessary stress. If you truly believe smokers smell so bad that it permeates your furniture, you might be in the wrong business. It's not very tolerant. What next? Specifying what food guests can eat?

[Sarah977]

@Darran6  Believe it or not, some hosts do try to dictate what guests cook. Like no curry or fish because it stinks the place up. 

I agree with you on the smoking. Hosts who try to be hard-line, not even permitting smoking outdoors, or providing some outdoor seating for smokers are going to have way more issues than those who are more tolerant.

I do understand though, that some places retain odors more than others and that even a faint smell of cigarette smoke makes some people feel ill (ex-smokers are often the worst for this).

I live in the tropics, where doors and windows are always open. I don't have upholstered furniture. Soft furnishings have removeable, washable covers, curtains are on clip rings and  can easily be taken down and washed if necessary. Odors don't linger. 

And many hosts do back-to-back bookings. If they would leave a day between bookings to clean and remove any lingering odors, airing the place out, instead of wanting to wring as much money as possible out of the place and have 100% occupancy, they would find that they don't have nearly as much hosting stress.

[Darran6]

Hi Sarah. Yes, I know, some hosts do specify foods that cannot be cooked, so my tongue was firmly in cheek. I don't agree with it. My view is that when you host, it becomes the guest's home. So we should be reasonably open to minor annoyances. Fundamentally you will send yourself to an early grave with stress if you don't let go of small things. Sounds like we're on the same page!

I set house rules more firm than my acceptable stress level, as I know everyone has different opinions on how exacting rules are. For example my listing is no smoking. I know full well guests might smoke outside the door (which is outside), and maybe off the balcony. It also states STRICTLY no parties, but I accept guests may have a few friends over for drinks. As long as my property is respected, and my neighbours aren't disturbed, I'm happy. 

[Jordan859]

There's a reason we put murderers in prison. The toxic buildup from smoking and the subsequent chemical reaction which is 100x more likely to cause childhood cancer is a pretty good reason to stop smoking all together unless you enjoy being part of the problem in birth defects as well as childhood cancer. 

You know odorless and tasteless things can still kill correct? Maybe some people don't like childhood cancer. You either have a low IQ or are a psychopath to enjoy something with all the warning labels and scientific evidence showing why its wrong.

Ever wonder how some people get lung cancer when they never smoked in their lives? Yeah others polluting the planet to include smoking. You may enjoy it but every time you light up you are basically forcing others who never wanted to smoke to have to deal with your bad decisions. 

You literally have a filter on a cigarette to help protect you from the cigarette. Where do you think all those harmful chemicals are going? They aren't magically disappearing. You are covered in them  and you move around as a buzzing hive of toxic particles that land everywhere hours after you smoked one time. Those particles mix with a compound in the air and become highly toxic for anyone unfortunate enough to touch what you walked past. 100x worse for a child or pregnant woman. Good job. And no rain doesn't wash them away.

[Larry478]

i just went into our condo after a guest left this morning.  Found a soda can with used cigarette butts on the outside porch.  But the smell had wafted into the condo.  I had to have the place aired out specially.

For you hosts, imagine guest #2 comes in after guest #1 has been smoking on your porch and the smell has gotten inside.  there goes your 5 star rating.

that's why no smoking inside nor out

[Shakia5]

So I’m not understanding why would you not properly clean your property before you rent to another guest!????? 

[Wendy1409]

As a smoker whose 19 year old son still lives at home,  i don't smoke inside the home.  I don't want to rent an Airbnb that allows it inside. But I wouldn't book a place that prohibited smoking outside, regardless of whether i smoked or not, bc it's a pretty clear indication of an overly controlling host, and like others have mentioned, what else are they going to be ridiculous about? What perfume i like to wear? My scented body wash? What foods i eat? How i dress? What time i go to bed? What things I like to read on your patio? What movies i watch on my tablet? Whether my husband and I have sex? Are there cameras hidden in the house to ensure their expectations for guests are followed?

That said, we've stayed at dozens of AirBnB's ourselves as a family, and I can't imagine being so disrespectful to the host as to smoke outside by open windows, or to leave butts *anywhere* on the property (tossing butts anywhere, anytime is a gross and unethical behaviour).  On vacation, I do exactly what I do at home- keep a small closed container for my butts *outside*, and take it with me when I leave if there's no garbage pick up while i am there.

Cigarette butts are especially strong smelling and usually more offensive than the smoke itself.  The brand of cigarettes i smoke actually sends us small recycling bags and rubber sealed mini "butt cans" (in the shape of a trash can) that fit in your pocket, for free several times a year. You use the mini butt can to store the butts, and when it gets full, you put them in the recycling bag and it permanently seals.  You can recycle them yourself or send it back to the manufacturer, who recycles them. You can buy them, or baggies, at almost any store dirt cheap, if you're concerned the guest won't bring them, and i'm sure you'll make a nice little profit on the charge for them.

The people here claiming that an outside smoker (who leaves their butts outside) can somehow infilitrate their home, furniture, curtains, and interior flooring with the pervasive odour of an indoor chain-smoker in a few short days, are being patently absurd. For the record, in the 3 dozen times we've hosted our vacation cabin,  no one has ever complained that it smells like smoke inside my house- and you guys know guests are not the type to hold back when they're unhappy. We bring our own pillows and linens anytime we book, bc i don't like using the hosts- we've had poor experiences with back to back bookers who didn't ensure they were cleaned, and who knows how many people have used them? It's not that much more to pack, so you could always ask smokers to bring their own, or to wash yours before they leave if there's an in house washer & dryer. That's a completely reasonable request.

I understand that people are not always conscious of their habit, but a simple statement in the listing and info book most hosts leave out (the one with the wifi password, which they're guarunteed to look for) should suffice. A prohibitively high fine and threat of an immediate and non refundable exit for guests who don't follow those rules should take care of rule breakers. If you're truly that concerned about outside/inside transfer, designate an area outside- more than 10 feet from the house is pretty excessive though.  I won't even comment on the person who thinks it's reasonable to ban people from smoking in their own vehicles.  Actually, i will- there are prescriptions for that kind of personality disorder. You just went from beyond unreasonable, straight into narcissistic personality disorder territory.

An across the board outside smoking ban on any area of the premises is discriminative. There is no such thing as an allergy to cigarettes. There are things like asthma, COPD, and other bronchial illnesses that smoking can exacerbate, but that goes back to the aforementioned notation in the listing, and is indicative of someone who is predisposed to large number of sensitivities, which means you probably aren't a good candidate for hosting a rental in the first place. The only thing I can see that working for is someone who exclusively rents to other people who have similar health complications, which is perhaps a much needed and untapped niche.

My mother hates the smell of cigarettes, and i respect that. We were in Michigan for vacation a few years back, and anytime we were walking around outside and i wanted a smoke, i made sure to move out of her space. One afternoon we were on a very empty boardwalk, with plenty of room, when a couple in their 20's decided to walk immediately behind me. Within a few seconds, the woman began delicately pretending to cough, and the husband made a loud and dramatic show of asking if she was okay and needed to sit down . It was not an oscar worthy performance by any stretch, and as the primary caregiver of a brother who died of AIDS related pneumonia, i know what a legitimate cough sounds like. Later that evening we saw the same couple at a restaurant that allowed smoking on the patio, which also had an outdoor bar, and she seemed to have no problem with 25+ smokers around her when it meant she could drink. I hate alcohol, including the smell, but if a drinker isn't driving then that's their perogative, not mine. Unless I am so far up into their personal space to be able to smell them, it's not a problem.

Lastly, I read a lot of comments about how easy it is to "just not smoke". You're wrong. Full stop. Smoking is an addiction. It's a biochemical rewiring of brain chemistry. If it was really that simple people wouldn't be doing it to the detriment of their own health, and spending a months mortgage payment on them. Scientific research has consistently demonstrated that it is an extremely difficult addiction to stop. As a 25 years sober recovering addict, i can assure you, kicking the cigarette habit is harder than kicking opiates. However, it's still legal last time I checked, and expecting a guest to try to break the habit and go through the accompanying withdrawal symptoms- in the middle of a vacation- is the exact opposite of what a vacation is for, and setting yourself, and the smoker, up for failure.

Again, this is not a commentary on allowing indoor smoking. That would make it very hard to book anyone but smokers. An outside area within reasonable distance from the house should not.  There is a large difference between protecting your investment, and being an unreasonable control freak.  If you think you should have the right to tell your guests how they should live when outside of the rental, or *in their own car* you're probably not the right fit for a host. You might do well working in the prison sector, though.

[Huma0]

@Wendy1409 

You make some valid points but I also agree with a lot of the hosts that have posted here. I actually do allow smoking at my listing, but I am of the opinion that it's up to the host to decide on their house rules and that includes no smoking in the outdoor spaces that form part of the listing. I even get asking guests not to smoke directly outside the boundaries of the property if cigarette butts are a problem (unfortunately, not everyone takes care to dispose of their cigarette butts as carefully as you and I am constantly having to clean them up from my front garden because passers by just chuck them in there).

A guest is under no obligation to book a listing if they don't like the rules of that listing. However, as long as the rules are clearly stated, they are under an obligation to follow them once they book.

I choose to allow smoking and I make a big deal of this on the listing and remind guests of it via messages and they need to confirm that they are okay with it. They did not need to book a smoking allowed listing if it's something that bothers them. On my listings it is clearly stated more than once that they should NOT book if it's something that bothers. Still, I sometimes get guests who then complain about it afterwards, which drives me mad. 

It would drive me equally mad if I clearly stated "no smoking anywhere on the property, including outdoor areas" and they went ahead and did it, or marked me down in the ratings because they had to be told to stop. I do think though that it is wise to be specific if no smoking includes outdoor areas as a lot of people aren't going to interpret it that way otherwise.

It's the host's responsibility to be clear about their rules. It's the guest's responsibility to read those rules, book a listing that has rules they are okay with and then follow them. It's infuriating when guests think that the rules of a listing shouldn't apply to them simply because they don't agree with them. Those guests should have booked another place.