What does "no smoking" mean???

[Willow3]

So, I'm left wondering... when I listed my property and check "no smoking" - that meant to me, that there was to be no smoking, inside or out.  But as I read the forums, many interpret it to mean no smoking indoors only.  

I just had a guest chain smoke on the patio - and I feel he didn't follow the house rules.  But maybe I'm alone in this thinking?

[Jordan859]

There's a reason we put murderers in prison. The toxic buildup from smoking and the subsequent chemical reaction which is 100x more likely to cause childhood cancer is a pretty good reason to stop smoking all together unless you enjoy being part of the problem in birth defects as well as childhood cancer. 

You know odorless and tasteless things can still kill correct? Maybe some people don't like childhood cancer. You either have a low IQ or are a psychopath to enjoy something with all the warning labels and scientific evidence showing why its wrong.

Ever wonder how some people get lung cancer when they never smoked in their lives? Yeah others polluting the planet to include smoking. You may enjoy it but every time you light up you are basically forcing others who never wanted to smoke to have to deal with your bad decisions. 

You literally have a filter on a cigarette to help protect you from the cigarette. Where do you think all those harmful chemicals are going? They aren't magically disappearing. You are covered in them  and you move around as a buzzing hive of toxic particles that land everywhere hours after you smoked one time. Those particles mix with a compound in the air and become highly toxic for anyone unfortunate enough to touch what you walked past. 100x worse for a child or pregnant woman. Good job. And no rain doesn't wash them away.

[Larry478]

i just went into our condo after a guest left this morning.  Found a soda can with used cigarette butts on the outside porch.  But the smell had wafted into the condo.  I had to have the place aired out specially.

For you hosts, imagine guest #2 comes in after guest #1 has been smoking on your porch and the smell has gotten inside.  there goes your 5 star rating.

that's why no smoking inside nor out

[Shakia5]

So I’m not understanding why would you not properly clean your property before you rent to another guest!????? 

[Wendy1409]

As a smoker whose 19 year old son still lives at home,  i don't smoke inside the home.  I don't want to rent an Airbnb that allows it inside. But I wouldn't book a place that prohibited smoking outside, regardless of whether i smoked or not, bc it's a pretty clear indication of an overly controlling host, and like others have mentioned, what else are they going to be ridiculous about? What perfume i like to wear? My scented body wash? What foods i eat? How i dress? What time i go to bed? What things I like to read on your patio? What movies i watch on my tablet? Whether my husband and I have sex? Are there cameras hidden in the house to ensure their expectations for guests are followed?

That said, we've stayed at dozens of AirBnB's ourselves as a family, and I can't imagine being so disrespectful to the host as to smoke outside by open windows, or to leave butts *anywhere* on the property (tossing butts anywhere, anytime is a gross and unethical behaviour).  On vacation, I do exactly what I do at home- keep a small closed container for my butts *outside*, and take it with me when I leave if there's no garbage pick up while i am there.

Cigarette butts are especially strong smelling and usually more offensive than the smoke itself.  The brand of cigarettes i smoke actually sends us small recycling bags and rubber sealed mini "butt cans" (in the shape of a trash can) that fit in your pocket, for free several times a year. You use the mini butt can to store the butts, and when it gets full, you put them in the recycling bag and it permanently seals.  You can recycle them yourself or send it back to the manufacturer, who recycles them. You can buy them, or baggies, at almost any store dirt cheap, if you're concerned the guest won't bring them, and i'm sure you'll make a nice little profit on the charge for them.

The people here claiming that an outside smoker (who leaves their butts outside) can somehow infilitrate their home, furniture, curtains, and interior flooring with the pervasive odour of an indoor chain-smoker in a few short days, are being patently absurd. For the record, in the 3 dozen times we've hosted our vacation cabin,  no one has ever complained that it smells like smoke inside my house- and you guys know guests are not the type to hold back when they're unhappy. We bring our own pillows and linens anytime we book, bc i don't like using the hosts- we've had poor experiences with back to back bookers who didn't ensure they were cleaned, and who knows how many people have used them? It's not that much more to pack, so you could always ask smokers to bring their own, or to wash yours before they leave if there's an in house washer & dryer. That's a completely reasonable request.

I understand that people are not always conscious of their habit, but a simple statement in the listing and info book most hosts leave out (the one with the wifi password, which they're guarunteed to look for) should suffice. A prohibitively high fine and threat of an immediate and non refundable exit for guests who don't follow those rules should take care of rule breakers. If you're truly that concerned about outside/inside transfer, designate an area outside- more than 10 feet from the house is pretty excessive though.  I won't even comment on the person who thinks it's reasonable to ban people from smoking in their own vehicles.  Actually, i will- there are prescriptions for that kind of personality disorder. You just went from beyond unreasonable, straight into narcissistic personality disorder territory.

An across the board outside smoking ban on any area of the premises is discriminative. There is no such thing as an allergy to cigarettes. There are things like asthma, COPD, and other bronchial illnesses that smoking can exacerbate, but that goes back to the aforementioned notation in the listing, and is indicative of someone who is predisposed to large number of sensitivities, which means you probably aren't a good candidate for hosting a rental in the first place. The only thing I can see that working for is someone who exclusively rents to other people who have similar health complications, which is perhaps a much needed and untapped niche.

My mother hates the smell of cigarettes, and i respect that. We were in Michigan for vacation a few years back, and anytime we were walking around outside and i wanted a smoke, i made sure to move out of her space. One afternoon we were on a very empty boardwalk, with plenty of room, when a couple in their 20's decided to walk immediately behind me. Within a few seconds, the woman began delicately pretending to cough, and the husband made a loud and dramatic show of asking if she was okay and needed to sit down . It was not an oscar worthy performance by any stretch, and as the primary caregiver of a brother who died of AIDS related pneumonia, i know what a legitimate cough sounds like. Later that evening we saw the same couple at a restaurant that allowed smoking on the patio, which also had an outdoor bar, and she seemed to have no problem with 25+ smokers around her when it meant she could drink. I hate alcohol, including the smell, but if a drinker isn't driving then that's their perogative, not mine. Unless I am so far up into their personal space to be able to smell them, it's not a problem.

Lastly, I read a lot of comments about how easy it is to "just not smoke". You're wrong. Full stop. Smoking is an addiction. It's a biochemical rewiring of brain chemistry. If it was really that simple people wouldn't be doing it to the detriment of their own health, and spending a months mortgage payment on them. Scientific research has consistently demonstrated that it is an extremely difficult addiction to stop. As a 25 years sober recovering addict, i can assure you, kicking the cigarette habit is harder than kicking opiates. However, it's still legal last time I checked, and expecting a guest to try to break the habit and go through the accompanying withdrawal symptoms- in the middle of a vacation- is the exact opposite of what a vacation is for, and setting yourself, and the smoker, up for failure.

Again, this is not a commentary on allowing indoor smoking. That would make it very hard to book anyone but smokers. An outside area within reasonable distance from the house should not.  There is a large difference between protecting your investment, and being an unreasonable control freak.  If you think you should have the right to tell your guests how they should live when outside of the rental, or *in their own car* you're probably not the right fit for a host. You might do well working in the prison sector, though.

[Huma0]

@Wendy1409 

You make some valid points but I also agree with a lot of the hosts that have posted here. I actually do allow smoking at my listing, but I am of the opinion that it's up to the host to decide on their house rules and that includes no smoking in the outdoor spaces that form part of the listing. I even get asking guests not to smoke directly outside the boundaries of the property if cigarette butts are a problem (unfortunately, not everyone takes care to dispose of their cigarette butts as carefully as you and I am constantly having to clean them up from my front garden because passers by just chuck them in there).

A guest is under no obligation to book a listing if they don't like the rules of that listing. However, as long as the rules are clearly stated, they are under an obligation to follow them once they book.

I choose to allow smoking and I make a big deal of this on the listing and remind guests of it via messages and they need to confirm that they are okay with it. They did not need to book a smoking allowed listing if it's something that bothers them. On my listings it is clearly stated more than once that they should NOT book if it's something that bothers. Still, I sometimes get guests who then complain about it afterwards, which drives me mad. 

It would drive me equally mad if I clearly stated "no smoking anywhere on the property, including outdoor areas" and they went ahead and did it, or marked me down in the ratings because they had to be told to stop. I do think though that it is wise to be specific if no smoking includes outdoor areas as a lot of people aren't going to interpret it that way otherwise.

It's the host's responsibility to be clear about their rules. It's the guest's responsibility to read those rules, book a listing that has rules they are okay with and then follow them. It's infuriating when guests think that the rules of a listing shouldn't apply to them simply because they don't agree with them. Those guests should have booked another place.

[Wendy1409]

The problem is that almost all listings specify non smoking.  AirBnB and VRBO both state there is no smoking at any rental.  I have always interpreted that as no smoking inside.  Which again, i totally understand and respect- smoking inside would make it extremely difficult to rent to a large contingent of the population.

Banning smoking outside though is patently absurd, and almost no hosts bother to clarify.  I do get that a lot of smokers are not conscientious enough to pick up butts.  It's incredibly disrespectful to the host- and since a lot of rentals are cabin type situations where the woods and lakes are extremely close, it can be a dangerous thing bc of fires or wildlife, not to mention ecologically catastrophic.

But again, those problems are incredibly simple to solve. Include whatever clauses you want: smoking at least 10 feet from the house, no butts on the ground, bring your own linens and pillows. Warn guests that there will be a prohibitively large fine for any butts found, an equally high fee for the additionalal cleaning work, and an immediate and non-refundable exit if any smoking related rules are broken.  That should be more than enough to discourage that kind of behaviour, especially if you factor in the negative review they will likely receive as guests,  making it difficult for them to get another rental on the site in the future. Hosts generally leave pretty specific guidelines and info for guests; adding a few more for outside smoking shouldn't be too much of an effort.

The comments that claim "just don't smoke, not smoking is easy" are being hypocritical or just willfully ignorant. The ones ones suggesting that smokers are inherently bad people,  guarunteed to ruin their business,  are being overly dramatic. And don't even get me started on the hosts who fully acknowledge that medical and recreational marijuana use is legal, but ban anyone from renting who uses it. There are people who have legitimate medical needs and prescriptions for medical marijuana. Denying them that is not only incredibly cruel, it's a perfectly prosecutable case of discrimination- yet no one has a problem with that?

By that theory, anything is on the table for banning. Banning diabetics bc the host doesn't like the idea of insulin needles? Banning  sober methadone maintenance guests bc the hosts don't realize or understand how maintenance based treatment works? Banning HIV positive guests bc they're afraid of accidents and nose bleeds? Banning male/female couples bc they',re unmarried? Banning gay or transgender people bc "they might walk around and upset the neighbors" (an example that was used in a comment about smokers who were polite enough to leave the property to smoke).

I realize that these are extreme scenarios but we're essentially opening the door for them by saying that a host can discriminate for anything they don't like.  Drinkers tend to be loud, obnoxious, statistically prone to violence, and certainly more prone to parties. Booze and beer smell just as offensive to me, but no one is suggesting guests shouldn't be allowed to drink. Pets are far more problematic in terms of danger and damage, but there are tons of people who allow those for extra fees and with additional clauses, by taking the word of guests that they will keep them off furniture and that their dogs are not viscous.  Dogs smell. Dogs shed. Inside and outside, unlike a smoker who only smokes outside.  We still allow dogs though.

If AirBnB isn't clear, and the listing isn't clear, it's a problem that will consistently happen.  Most of the population interprets no smoking as no smoking inside.  And unlike "pets allowed", there's no way to filter search results for non-smoking outside vs smoking outside allowed listings.  With AirBnB's streamlined process of booking with out ever talking to the host, self-check ins and outs, and often times no interaction with the hosts at all, it's neither designed to ensure that the smoking issue is outlined, nor designed to be fair to smoking guests.  

To give you an example: on average i wishlist at 50+ rentals for a trip, maybe more. Then look at amenities, pricing, area, etc- to whittle down the list of possibilities. Then have my spouse do the same. By the time i am ready to book (and this is true for most extremely active AirBnB users), i'm close to the deadline for when i plan to leave, and many of the places from the original list are no longer available. So the only solution is to DM 50+ hosts to clarify the policy before you even start narrowing down the list; which is excessively time consuming, and could potentially be interpreted by the AirBnB algorithm as spamming.

As a host, I think it's our responsibility to be clearer on the issue, and to recognize before we choose to be a host, that we've chosen to allow a diverse number of people who are under no obligation to acquiesce to our personal biases. People who comment on a topic usually do so because they have a knee jerk reaction to it, so I can't say how indicative it is of the majority, but I am really appalled by the most of these replies. They're extremely discrimative.

According to the CDC, as of 2021, 30.8 million adults in the United States currently smoke cigarettes. Those people don't deserve a vacation? What about the ones who travel for work and have to rent? What about families with one smoker? Those non smoking kids and members don't deserve to be with their smoking family on vacation too? If the smoker is willing to make concessions to limit any potential damage, why can't we as hosts? Statistically, smokers tend to be just above or below poverty level, so there is also a larger issue that applies to stigmatizing lower income families, and since lower income families tend to be minorities, it becomes an issue of racism. Smoking outside the USA is far more common, so now it's an issue with discrimination of other cultures (hookah smoking, for example, was mentioned). Lots of people from overseas use AirBnB to visit the US or family they have here. Low income and poverty stricken families may not be frequent users, but still can have jobs that require travel, health issues that require out of state specialists, or the ability to scrimp and save for a trip to do something special for their kids/family.

You're not wrong- every host is entitled to make their own rules. That doesn't mean they're not being biased and perpetuating stigma though. That doesn't mean they have the right to tell people how to live their lives, or that I don't have the right to call them on it. Persons claiming that they have legitimate health issues exacerbated by smoke are medically predisposed to all kinds of sensitivities that make them poor candidates for hosting (unless they choose to exclusively host persons with similar issues as i suggested before- and certainly that's a niche that deserves exploring).  If they're saying that they are exclusively predisposed to smoke, that's not a medical issue- it's a personal issue.  One that could be easily respected by asking guests to do their smoking outside.  

Choosing instead to spread misinformation, make prejudicial comments, discriminate against a large part of the population, or tell people they can't smoke in their own vehicles, is just as offensive as they think smoking is- if not more so.

[Jordan859]

Better smoke at least 33 feet away. Smoke can penetrate the pores of building materials. If a bug can get inside a home then a microscopic particle can as well and they build up. The act of smoking is bad enough but the buildup of toxic waste on surfaces is far worse than any smoking you do and not wanting to live in a toxic waste dump is not discriminating against a large population of people.

Also studies show that smokers just have a lower IQ. Don't hate me, hate science.

[Matt6136]

Would you enforce parking 33 feet from the home, wait until you read about incomplete combustion of diesel fuel or gasoline 😱 🤡

[Jordan859]

Not wanting you to smoke outside is ridiculous? Just because they know the Science of smoking outside and unless you burn the clothing you wore and shower before entering the property you are indeed leaving chemical compounds all over the place.

Should not have to educate people of this but here it is. The smoke residue sits on a surface and builds up. this chemical does not go away and can last for 5 years or more on surfaces. (Buildup could last decades) The chemical then mixes with Nitrous Acid which is a highly reactive compound found in regular air. Which isn't an issue normally unless it reacts with something like cigarette residue left behind on surfaces. This generates a highly carcinogenic (Cancer causing) off gas compound.

Smoking is an early death and secondhand / third hand smoking is even worse than the act itself. So maybe ask yourself. How has my activity affected children? who are 100 times more likely to get cancer when exposed. Have you noticed how some children just get cancer early on in life? Well I bet most individuals don't think about the old homes they live in that seem fine but had smokers decades ago and a huge toxic buildup gave their child cancer. Hope you donate to the child cancer fund because you directly donate to the cause.

Over 13 year old study.

This study shows that residual nicotine from tobacco smoke sorbed to indoor surfaces reacts with ambient nitrous acid (HONO) to form carcinogenic tobacco-specific nitrosamines (TSNAs). Substantial levels of TSNAs were measured on surfaces inside a smoker’s vehicle. Laboratory experiments using cellulose as a model indoor material yielded a > 10-fold increase of surface-bound TSNAs when sorbed secondhand smoke was exposed to 60 ppbv HONO for 3 hours. In both cases we identified 1-(N-methyl-N-nitrosamino)-1-(3-pyridinyl)-4-butanal, a TSNA absent in freshly emitted tobacco smoke, as the major product. The potent carcinogens 4-(methylnitrosamino)-1-(3-pyridinyl)-1-butanone and N-nitroso nornicotine were also detected. Time-course measurements revealed fast TSNA formation, with up to 0.4% conversion of nicotine. Given the rapid sorption and persistence of high levels of nicotine on indoor surfaces—including clothing and human skin—this recently identified process represents an unappreciated health hazard through dermal exposure, dust inhalation, and ingestion. These findings raise concerns about exposures to the tobacco smoke residue that has been recently dubbed “thirdhand smoke.” Our work highlights the importance of reactions at indoor interfaces, particularly those involving amines and NOx/HONO cycling, with potential health impacts.

[Elaine701]

@Wendy1409 

Nice thesis about the morality of nonsmoking policy. 

Nonetheless, in any practical sense, "house rules" are all but entirely unenforceable, including smoking policy. Yes, threatening a huge fine for smoking indoors can help, as most guests don't realise it's unenforceable. And only a minority exhibit that attitude of entitlement ...and if you're a little perceptive, you should be able to smell them coming before they book it. 

So the best you can really hope for is that smokers will be conscientious enough to smoke outdoors, as they've been asked to do. It's a very common expectation these days, and they should be used to it. 

And if it's cigarette butts you're worried about, then be sure to provide plenty of ashtrays outdoors. Otherwise, they'll just toss them on the ground. 

It would be great if hosting were easy and everybody did everything the way you'd like, but they don't. It's part of hosting. So make it easy for them to do the right thing, and most will.

Happy hosting 🙂

[Wendy1409]

Last time I checked, this was an open commentary on the efficacy of non smoking policies.  I'm entitled to share my experience and opinions as a host, every bit as much as you are. Don't agree? Scroll on.  No one forced you to read mine.

I respect the rules when I rent, and guests who smoke have respected ours when we host. Since the majority of comments were pearl clutching, pitchfork wielding, anti-smokers who thought outdoor smokers shouldn't have the right to rent, I decided to play devils advocate.  The only morality thesis in this thread is the legion of over exaggerated and pseudoscientific stories, about how outdoor smokers ruin indoor houses, and are magically murdering hosts and guests who arrive long after their exit. Or my favourite, dare to smoke in their own cars (gasp!). And let's not forget about terrifying the neighborhood,  when they walk off the property and down the street to smoke, out of respect.

My Dad had to get an emergency kidney donation when he was out of state for business.  My family and I lived in AirBnB's for three months so we could be there to support him.  By your theory, my mom and my brother didn't deserve to be there bc they are smokers, even though they respected the house rules.  

My best friend's husband was diagnosed with end stage aids complications, which he was infected with 25 years ago from a blood transfusion. He didn't want to spend what little time they had left together regretting that he never got to take her on a honeymoon, so he booked an AirBnB in Costa Rica.  By your theory, they didn't deserve to have that last trip together, bc there bc one of them was an outdoor smoker, even though they respected the house rules.  

Four years ago, I helped fundraise for a trip to Disneyland and an AirBnB, when my cousin's 7 year old son lost both his mom and his dad, when they were hit by a drunk driver and killed.  One of his legal guardians, my Uncle, is a smoker. By your theory, they didn't deserve to be there bc one of them was an outdoor smoker, even though they respected the house rules.  

Just bc you have an opinion, it doesn't negate the validity of others.  The point of this community is so hosts can share their thoughts and experiences, and hopefully help others determine what works, what doesn't, and how to best set their own policies while not violating the rights of others.  If you can't engage in an open debate without making snide remarks on my comments, you may want to try avoiding threads where people have different opinions. 

And thank you! I have a PhD, so I spent many years on perfecting my ability to craft a good thesis.  

[David8879]

This is the best description of the past two years' "morality"

[Fred13]

@Wendy1409 I got the impression @Elaine701 's principal thought was about the  pragmatism of enforcing a no-smoking house rule.  She even suggested aids for guest compliance with cigarette buds, a wise pursuit in the lessening of a confrontation between guest & host which is most important to all, certainly includes Airbnb. It appears this thread has gotten off track, become personal versus just entertaining ideas in the hope of mutual  enlightenment.

[Shandy0]

I don't believe anyone deserves to be in any stranger's home. Airbnb is a luxury.  Guests don't deserve our homes, they pay for the privilege of using them, and its their responsibility to read the rulrs before booking. 

It's not about morality. As a cancer survivor I want a smoke free home. 2nd and 3rd hand smoke is dangerous, and carcinogenic, and I don't want it in my home. 

I have no moral judgements about smokers. I have no judgements on strangers who smoke and their reasons for travel. 

I still don't want smoke of any kind  in my house or yard. 

[Stephanie365]

The joy of having my rental on my property is when I say, "No smoking inside or out" I can absolutely enforce it.  I am allergic to smoke, not to mention the foul stench that transfers to everything a smoker touches. Not happening in my house.

I am very up front in my listing: If you're a smoker, please book elsewhere. This has had no effect on my bookings. The new and "improved" AirBNB Summer 2022 on the other hand....

For my purposes, smoking means tobacco, 420 and vaping. Seeing someone dip makes me wanna puke so I don't allow that either.