What does "no smoking" mean???

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Willow3
Level 10
Coupeville, WA

What does "no smoking" mean???

So, I'm left wondering... when I listed my property and check "no smoking" - that meant to me, that there was to be no smoking, inside or out.  But as I read the forums, many interpret it to mean no smoking indoors only.  

I just had a guest chain smoke on the patio - and I feel he didn't follow the house rules.  But maybe I'm alone in this thinking?

 

 

Top Answer
Natasha3
Level 3
San Francisco, CA

My listing says "No smoking anywhere on the property" but in my house manual I specify Not in the hallway, not on the porch, not by the window. 

Some people willingly on unwillingly interpret "property" the way it suits them, so it's better to specify to avoid unnecessary confrontation. Our house layout is such that the porch is right below my windows so all that smoke and stench gets inside.

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76 Replies 76

The problem is that almost all listings specify non smoking.  AirBnB and VRBO both state there is no smoking at any rental.  I have always interpreted that as no smoking inside.  Which again, i totally understand and respect- smoking inside would make it extremely difficult to rent to a large contingent of the population.

 

Banning smoking outside though is patently absurd, and almost no hosts bother to clarify.  I do get that a lot of smokers are not conscientious enough to pick up butts.  It's incredibly disrespectful to the host- and since a lot of rentals are cabin type situations where the woods and lakes are extremely close, it can be a dangerous thing bc of fires or wildlife, not to mention ecologically catastrophic.


But again, those problems are incredibly simple to solve. Include whatever clauses you want: smoking at least 10 feet from the house, no butts on the ground, bring your own linens and pillows. Warn guests that there will be a prohibitively large fine for any butts found, an equally high fee for the additionalal cleaning work, and an immediate and non-refundable exit if any smoking related rules are broken.  That should be more than enough to discourage that kind of behaviour, especially if you factor in the negative review they will likely receive as guests,  making it difficult for them to get another rental on the site in the future. Hosts generally leave pretty specific guidelines and info for guests; adding a few more for outside smoking shouldn't be too much of an effort.

 

 

The comments that claim "just don't smoke, not smoking is easy" are being hypocritical or just willfully ignorant. The ones ones suggesting that smokers are inherently bad people,  guarunteed to ruin their business,  are being overly dramatic. And don't even get me started on the hosts who fully acknowledge that medical and recreational marijuana use is legal, but ban anyone from renting who uses it. There are people who have legitimate medical needs and prescriptions for medical marijuana. Denying them that is not only incredibly cruel, it's a perfectly prosecutable case of discrimination- yet no one has a problem with that?

 

By that theory, anything is on the table for banning. Banning diabetics bc the host doesn't like the idea of insulin needles? Banning  sober methadone maintenance guests bc the hosts don't realize or understand how maintenance based treatment works? Banning HIV positive guests bc they're afraid of accidents and nose bleeds? Banning male/female couples bc they',re unmarried? Banning gay or transgender people bc "they might walk around and upset the neighbors" (an example that was used in a comment about smokers who were polite enough to leave the property to smoke).

 

I realize that these are extreme scenarios but we're essentially opening the door for them by saying that a host can discriminate for anything they don't like.  Drinkers tend to be loud, obnoxious, statistically prone to violence, and certainly more prone to parties. Booze and beer smell just as offensive to me, but no one is suggesting guests shouldn't be allowed to drink. Pets are far more problematic in terms of danger and damage, but there are tons of people who allow those for extra fees and with additional clauses, by taking the word of guests that they will keep them off furniture and that their dogs are not viscous.  Dogs smell. Dogs shed. Inside and outside, unlike a smoker who only smokes outside.  We still allow dogs though.


If AirBnB isn't clear, and the listing isn't clear, it's a problem that will consistently happen.  Most of the population interprets no smoking as no smoking inside.  And unlike "pets allowed", there's no way to filter search results for non-smoking outside vs smoking outside allowed listings.  With AirBnB's streamlined process of booking with out ever talking to the host, self-check ins and outs, and often times no interaction with the hosts at all, it's neither designed to ensure that the smoking issue is outlined, nor designed to be fair to smoking guests.  

 

To give you an example: on average i wishlist at 50+ rentals for a trip, maybe more. Then look at amenities, pricing, area, etc- to whittle down the list of possibilities. Then have my spouse do the same. By the time i am ready to book (and this is true for most extremely active AirBnB users), i'm close to the deadline for when i plan to leave, and many of the places from the original list are no longer available. So the only solution is to DM 50+ hosts to clarify the policy before you even start narrowing down the list; which is excessively time consuming, and could potentially be interpreted by the AirBnB algorithm as spamming.

 

As a host, I think it's our responsibility to be clearer on the issue, and to recognize before we choose to be a host, that we've chosen to allow a diverse number of people who are under no obligation to acquiesce to our personal biases. People who comment on a topic usually do so because they have a knee jerk reaction to it, so I can't say how indicative it is of the majority, but I am really appalled by the most of these replies. They're extremely discrimative.

 

According to the CDC, as of 2021, 30.8 million adults in the United States currently smoke cigarettes. Those people don't deserve a vacation? What about the ones who travel for work and have to rent? What about families with one smoker? Those non smoking kids and members don't deserve to be with their smoking family on vacation too? If the smoker is willing to make concessions to limit any potential damage, why can't we as hosts? Statistically, smokers tend to be just above or below poverty level, so there is also a larger issue that applies to stigmatizing lower income families, and since lower income families tend to be minorities, it becomes an issue of racism. Smoking outside the USA is far more common, so now it's an issue with discrimination of other cultures (hookah smoking, for example, was mentioned). Lots of people from overseas use AirBnB to visit the US or family they have here. Low income and poverty stricken families may not be frequent users, but still can have jobs that require travel, health issues that require out of state specialists, or the ability to scrimp and save for a trip to do something special for their kids/family.


You're not wrong- every host is entitled to make their own rules. That doesn't mean they're not being biased and perpetuating stigma though. That doesn't mean they have the right to tell people how to live their lives, or that I don't have the right to call them on it. Persons claiming that they have legitimate health issues exacerbated by smoke are medically predisposed to all kinds of sensitivities that make them poor candidates for hosting (unless they choose to exclusively host persons with similar issues as i suggested before- and certainly that's a niche that deserves exploring).  If they're saying that they are exclusively predisposed to smoke, that's not a medical issue- it's a personal issue.  One that could be easily respected by asking guests to do their smoking outside.  

 

Choosing instead to spread misinformation, make prejudicial comments, discriminate against a large part of the population, or tell people they can't smoke in their own vehicles, is just as offensive as they think smoking is- if not more so.

 

Better smoke at least 33 feet away. Smoke can penetrate the pores of building materials. If a bug can get inside a home then a microscopic particle can as well and they build up. The act of smoking is bad enough but the buildup of toxic waste on surfaces is far worse than any smoking you do and not wanting to live in a toxic waste dump is not discriminating against a large population of people.

Also studies show that smokers just have a lower IQ. Don't hate me, hate science.

Would you enforce parking 33 feet from the home, wait until you read about incomplete combustion of diesel fuel or gasoline 😱 🤡

Not wanting you to smoke outside is ridiculous? Just because they know the Science of smoking outside and unless you burn the clothing you wore and shower before entering the property you are indeed leaving chemical compounds all over the place.

Should not have to educate people of this but here it is. The smoke residue sits on a surface and builds up. this chemical does not go away and can last for 5 years or more on surfaces. (Buildup could last decades) The chemical then mixes with Nitrous Acid which is a highly reactive compound found in regular air. Which isn't an issue normally unless it reacts with something like cigarette residue left behind on surfaces. This generates a highly carcinogenic (Cancer causing) off gas compound.

Smoking is an early death and secondhand / third hand smoking is even worse than the act itself. So maybe ask yourself. How has my activity affected children? who are 100 times more likely to get cancer when exposed. Have you noticed how some children just get cancer early on in life? Well I bet most individuals don't think about the old homes they live in that seem fine but had smokers decades ago and a huge toxic buildup gave their child cancer. Hope you donate to the child cancer fund because you directly donate to the cause.


Over 13 year old study.


This study shows that residual nicotine from tobacco smoke sorbed to indoor surfaces reacts with ambient nitrous acid (HONO) to form carcinogenic tobacco-specific nitrosamines (TSNAs). Substantial levels of TSNAs were measured on surfaces inside a smoker’s vehicle. Laboratory experiments using cellulose as a model indoor material yielded a > 10-fold increase of surface-bound TSNAs when sorbed secondhand smoke was exposed to 60 ppbv HONO for 3 hours. In both cases we identified 1-(N-methyl-N-nitrosamino)-1-(3-pyridinyl)-4-butanal, a TSNA absent in freshly emitted tobacco smoke, as the major product. The potent carcinogens 4-(methylnitrosamino)-1-(3-pyridinyl)-1-butanone and N-nitroso nornicotine were also detected. Time-course measurements revealed fast TSNA formation, with up to 0.4% conversion of nicotine. Given the rapid sorption and persistence of high levels of nicotine on indoor surfaces—including clothing and human skin—this recently identified process represents an unappreciated health hazard through dermal exposure, dust inhalation, and ingestion. These findings raise concerns about exposures to the tobacco smoke residue that has been recently dubbed “thirdhand smoke.” Our work highlights the importance of reactions at indoor interfaces, particularly those involving amines and NOx/HONO cycling, with potential health impacts.

Elaine701
Level 10
Balearic Islands, Spain

@Wendy1409 

 

Nice thesis about the morality of nonsmoking policy. 

 

Nonetheless, in any practical sense, "house rules" are all but entirely unenforceable, including smoking policy. Yes, threatening a huge fine for smoking indoors can help, as most guests don't realise it's unenforceable. And only a minority exhibit that attitude of entitlement ...and if you're a little perceptive, you should be able to smell them coming before they book it. 

 

So the best you can really hope for is that smokers will be conscientious enough to smoke outdoors, as they've been asked to do. It's a very common expectation these days, and they should be used to it. 

 

And if it's cigarette butts you're worried about, then be sure to provide plenty of ashtrays outdoors. Otherwise, they'll just toss them on the ground. 

 

It would be great if hosting were easy and everybody did everything the way you'd like, but they don't. It's part of hosting. So make it easy for them to do the right thing, and most will.

 

Happy hosting 🙂

Last time I checked, this was an open commentary on the efficacy of non smoking policies.  I'm entitled to share my experience and opinions as a host, every bit as much as you are. Don't agree? Scroll on.  No one forced you to read mine.

 

I respect the rules when I rent, and guests who smoke have respected ours when we host. Since the majority of comments were pearl clutching, pitchfork wielding, anti-smokers who thought outdoor smokers shouldn't have the right to rent, I decided to play devils advocate.  The only morality thesis in this thread is the legion of over exaggerated and pseudoscientific stories, about how outdoor smokers ruin indoor houses, and are magically murdering hosts and guests who arrive long after their exit. Or my favourite, dare to smoke in their own cars (gasp!). And let's not forget about terrifying the neighborhood,  when they walk off the property and down the street to smoke, out of respect.

 

My Dad had to get an emergency kidney donation when he was out of state for business.  My family and I lived in AirBnB's for three months so we could be there to support him.  By your theory, my mom and my brother didn't deserve to be there bc they are smokers, even though they respected the house rules.  

 

My best friend's husband was diagnosed with end stage aids complications, which he was infected with 25 years ago from a blood transfusion. He didn't want to spend what little time they had left together regretting that he never got to take her on a honeymoon, so he booked an AirBnB in Costa Rica.  By your theory, they didn't deserve to have that last trip together, bc there bc one of them was an outdoor smoker, even though they respected the house rules.  

 

Four years ago, I helped fundraise for a trip to Disneyland and an AirBnB, when my cousin's 7 year old son lost both his mom and his dad, when they were hit by a drunk driver and killed.  One of his legal guardians, my Uncle, is a smoker. By your theory, they didn't deserve to be there bc one of them was an outdoor smoker, even though they respected the house rules.  

 

Just bc you have an opinion, it doesn't negate the validity of others.  The point of this community is so hosts can share their thoughts and experiences, and hopefully help others determine what works, what doesn't, and how to best set their own policies while not violating the rights of others.  If you can't engage in an open debate without making snide remarks on my comments, you may want to try avoiding threads where people have different opinions. 

 

And thank you! I have a PhD, so I spent many years on perfecting my ability to craft a good thesis.  

This is the best description of the past two years' "morality"

@Wendy1409 I got the impression @Elaine701 's principal thought was about the  pragmatism of enforcing a no-smoking house rule.  She even suggested aids for guest compliance with cigarette buds, a wise pursuit in the lessening of a confrontation between guest & host which is most important to all, certainly includes Airbnb. It appears this thread has gotten off track, become personal versus just entertaining ideas in the hope of mutual  enlightenment.

I don't believe anyone deserves to be in any stranger's home. Airbnb is a luxury.  Guests don't deserve our homes, they pay for the privilege of using them, and its their responsibility to read the rulrs before booking. 

 

It's not about morality. As a cancer survivor I want a smoke free home. 2nd and 3rd hand smoke is dangerous, and carcinogenic, and I don't want it in my home. 

 

I have no moral judgements about smokers. I have no judgements on strangers who smoke and their reasons for travel. 

 

I still don't want smoke of any kind  in my house or yard. 

Stephanie365
Level 10
Fredericksburg, VA

The joy of having my rental on my property is when I say, "No smoking inside or out" I can absolutely enforce it.  I am allergic to smoke, not to mention the foul stench that transfers to everything a smoker touches. Not happening in my house.

I am very up front in my listing: If you're a smoker, please book elsewhere. This has had no effect on my bookings. The new and "improved" AirBNB Summer 2022 on the other hand....

For my purposes, smoking means tobacco, 420 and vaping. Seeing someone dip makes me wanna puke so I don't allow that either. 

I'm just confused like people can't even smoke like OUT outside? Like on the grass or in front of the house? I don't smoke I vape but so does a quarter of the population, and it doesn't leave a smell or residue... just seems a tad overbearing to me

It leaves microscopic residue that is considered third hand smoke that builds up over time and can last on surfaces for years that have been cleaned. This residue can transfer from clothes to surfaces. So unless you smoke 33 feet away from a building and use a chemical shower and burn your clothes before entering a property then you are transferring cancer causing chemicals that build up over time and have a greater risk of causing cancer through touch and polluting a space than the actual act of smoking. The chemical reaction that occurs is highly carcinogenic and gets worse over time where a space could become highly toxic and be odorless. Odorless but deadly. 100x more deadly to a child as well. So yes it is someone's right to deny their space from becoming a toxic waste dump.

🤓 

That’s bs. If that was true, we would have a lot more chemicals that we bring into our house every day this from just going outside. So with your logic, we all need to burn our clothes every day to be purified in the house…  Either you’re not cleaning properly with that $200 automatic cleaning fee that is associated with most AIR BNB’s or, you have people actually smoking inside of your property. I have worked with serval cleaning companies it’s not magically transferred on everything unless you’re chain smoking in the property. If you have people that are courteous, they SHOULD wash THEIR hands after they’re done smoking therefore, when you are cleaning the property, you should be disinfected common touched areas along with countertops! I think it’s also great when renters put that they don’t want smokers so that people can understand that they are going to possibly be hassled and micromanaged regardless of the fact that they are spending hundreds of dollars. So then after they get that notice they can choose to have a peaceful smokers  stay elsewhere.

Cassandra384
Level 1
Amityville, NY

when booking a property, I always check for details. According to Airbnb guidelines, the no-smoking option only applies to the inside of the property unless otherwise stated by the host.