Would you book a rental with security cameras in communal areas?

[Marcus237]

I'm curious to know from people who say they wouldn't rent at a property with security cameras in the common areas (kitchens/living rooms), do you normally book an entire house?

And if you do, would you find cameras in these places to be more reasonable if someone had a 6 bedroom mansion with several full bathrooms, a jacuzzi, and multiple living rooms, where they rented out each of 5 bedrooms separately, and they themselves stayed in the 6th?

I feel like cameras in the common areas in this case provides security, safety, and accountability not only for the homeowner, but also for the other guests who are staying on a property with strangers that they don't know.

I'm considering putting my place on airbnb to do just that, but I don't want to alienate customers. That said, the price to rent the entire property would likely be prohibitive to most people, so I think I'd have more success renting individual private luxury rooms with access to beautiful, high end common areas. But in doing so, having multiple groups of strangers staying in a single place, I'd think having security cameras to provide accountability would be of the utmost importance. Otherwise, if people break things in the common areas or even steal another guest's property, you'd have no idea who would be accountable for it, and guests may even attempt to hold the host responsible.

What are your thoughts, hosts and guests?

[Ann72]

@Marcus237  Cool.  Sounds like you're good to go, then.

[Marcus238]

Very well said. I think the most important fact of this entire situation is your ownership over your house 

No argument trumps your ownership of your house; not even the "creep" factor. 

Your home is that, not a hotel or other commercial establishment. 

Fact is: you could put cameras over your beds and toilets without breaking any laws. Of course it would be against Airbnb's Trust and Safety policies and you wouldn't be permitted to host but no law will have been broken. 

Marcus, you seem rather intelligent (I'm not surprised:). Unfortunately, this community doesn't seem to be occupied by your same caliper of people so you may spend more time defending your logic than receiving constructive advice. 

Don't waste your energies. 

[Marcus237]

Thanks, my state laws basically require someone to stay at a place for more than 14 consecutive days for them to be considered a tenant. With that in mind, I may choose to limit my guests to a maximum of 2 week stays to avoid any tenant protections like eviction protocols.

[Sarah977]

@Marcus237  Something to be aware of regarding cameras- There are people who rent an Airbnb for the purpose of having an affair. Some hosts have reported guests being successful in getting a host's review removed, even though it was a good review, because the host said something like "It was a pleasure hosting XX and YY". Well, XX isn't married to YY, he's married to ZZ. So he freaks in case his wife were to read that review. I can just imagine how those folks would feel about cameras in the common spaces.

I don't think most hosts consider it any of their business whether a "couple" who checks in are actually a couple or having a bit of extra-marital recreation (as opposed to pimps or prostitutes renting the space to turn tricks, which no host is okay with), but it's something to keep in mind as far as privacy and reviews.

[Marcus237]

@Sarah977 I seriously doubt 2 people having an affair would have an interest in renting my entire 6 bedroom place to do so.

[Sarah977]

@Marcus237  I was meaning if you decide to rent out each of the rooms separately.

[Marcus238]

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@Sarah977 wrote:

@Marcus237  Something to be aware of regarding cameras- There are people who rent an Airbnb for the purpose of having an affair. Some hosts have reported guests being successful in getting a host's review removed, even though it was a good review, because the host said something like "It was a pleasure hosting XX and YY". Well, XX isn't married to YY, he's married to ZZ. So he freaks in case his wife were to read that review. I can just imagine how those folks would feel about cameras in the common spaces.

I don't think most hosts consider it any of their business whether a "couple" who checks in are actually a couple or having a bit of extra-marital recreation (as opposed to pimps or prostitutes renting the space to turn tricks, which no host is okay with), but it's something to keep in mind as far as privacy and reviews.

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That's not any of the hosts concerns and is irrelevant. The world doesn't revolve around people who's actions are in direct conflict with the well-being of others. "Cheaters" are not exactly a target market. Airbnb is big on Trust and Safety. I don't trust and therefore feel unsafe in my own home when there is an affair happening 15 feet away. Why? Because real life happens! Real life = a husband tracking his wife's location (somehow) to your home and arrives angry with guns in hand. In such a scenario, the guest has made my own home unsafe for me and the cameras are now a benefit to us both. 

Like I said in a previous reply: you obviously have deep-rooted privacy concerns that have originated and will continue to exist outside of Airbnb. Through your replies and and demeanor, I am starting to formulate an opinion of you will no longer allow me to engage you after this message. Your views are biased, closed-minded, and seem to cater to the crowd of guest who are the subject of most host's complaints. 

Remember: I'm your neighbor of friend, not your local motel. My house is mine to own and control. You are a guest, regardless of how much you pay or what platform you book through. My home rules are my home rules and I expect my peace, comfort, and security to my everyone's top priority, even above customer satisfaction. At the end of the day, the Airbnb platform can me vacated, but I still owe myself and my neighbors peace and safety and I'll still be responsible for going about life when hosting is all over. My house, my rules. Don't like? Don't book. Wanna cheat? Get a room!

Of course, we're here to provide a service in exchange for income but there is a line - the front door - where my needs or even my simplest desires takes precedence and that is something that should never be forgotten. 

[Sarah977]

Hey, @Marcus238, sorry, but you completely miscontrued the jist of my post. I wasn't criticizing what you want to do, even though I don't agree with indoor cameras (and your OP specifically invited others to let you know how they felt about them)- I was trying to alert you to the things which many other hosts here have had guest issues with. Since you're a new host just setting up your listing, I thought it would be helpful info to be aware of the kind of complaints guests often report to Airbnb which causes Airbnb to sometimes delist hosts or remove reviews. I.e. forewarned is forearmed.

I can't imagine where you got "Your views .... seem to cater to the crowd of guest who are the subject of most host's complaints. " Absolutely not. I host a private room in my home for one guest and I luckily get very respectful, non-complaining, non-demanding guests. I'm quite shocked at the guests some hosts get saddled with, I didn't even realize there were so many such unabashedly entitled people out there. If any of them did come my way, you can rest assured I wouldn't be catering to them. They'd be escorted off the property, with or without Airbnb's "permission", with my 70 pound dog backing me up.

[Marcus238]

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@Sarah977 wrote:

"Hey, @Marcus238, sorry, but you completely miscontrued the jist of my post..."

Sarah, there are two of us here: @Marcus237 and myself, @Marcus238. @Marcus237 is the original poster. 

With that clarified, I'm who replied "Your views .... seem to cater to the crowd of guest who are the subject of most host's complaints."  Seems to me that you are strongly advocating in favor of the "unabashedly entitled" by consistently discouraging Mr. Marcus from hosting on his terms based on your uncompromising opinion of indoor cameras - which, as you mentioned, isn't based on any experience as an Airbnb guest. I'm sure your hosting insights are valued and appreciated but the OP seems concerned with guest opinions. 

I'm also suggesting that your have personal privacy and trust concerns that have originated outside of Airbnb and will continue to exist should you refuse to be more open-minded. You speak of "big brother" which leads me to believe your motives for feeling uncomfortable have less to do with what levels of respect we should show towards the property of others (how we should conduct ourselves when we are guests in someone else's home, etc.) and more to do with internal cultural, political, or social conflict.

Furthermore, your "alerts" just seem like negativity, considering you're not an actual guest - a fact I feel it necessary to reiterate. You've done nothing but defend negativity by advocating for guest rights that simply do not exist, like the right to cheat on your spouse in peace. C'mon!

Mr. Marcus, add/remove cameras as you see fit to accommodate your guests.

Best Wishes, 

The other Marcus.

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[Ann72]

@Marcus238 I thought you said in your previous post to @Sarah977 that you would "no longer ...engage ... after this message."  Here's an idea:  be true to your word.  Long, pompous, insulting posts aren't true to the spirit of this community.  That's what Facebook is for.

[Sarah977]

@Marcus238  Yes, the 2 Markus's did confuse me. Sorry. I wasn't advocating for guest's rights. I was, in fact, alerting. I've read many posts here on the forum over time from hosts who were suspended or delisted by Airbnb because guests reported and complained about indoor cameras. The fact that the cameras were disclosed by the host in their listing wasn't good enough- Airbnb sided with the guests. Also read posts from hosts whose reviews of the guests were removed because the guests were having an affair and didn't want the other party's name mentioned in the review. I'm not defending the guest's view of things, nor their behavior in these instances at all. I'm just saying it happens, so it's best if new hosts are aware, so they can guard against it in whatever way they see fit. 

You are quite correct that I am generally against "surveillance", big brother is watching. And yes, that would extend to being surveilled in a private residence I might rent. I happen to think that respectful people are respectful whether they are being watched or not, and that yes, it could be a deterent to disrespectful people, but I wouldn't want those who needed a camera in order to behave respectfully in my home at all.

[Marcus237]

@Sarah977  Could you link posts to other threads where hosts were suspended for cameras that were fully disclosed, including location?

Airbnb has specific policies that hosts have to disclose not only that there ARE cameras, but what locations those cameras occupy to be in compliance with Airbnb's terms. I'd be interested in seeing situations where the host fully complied with Airbnb's rules as well as local laws, but then was suspended anyway. You see, since Hosts are considered contractors, doing things like that in violation of the agreement with hosts will cause problems with the entire "contractor" relationship in the US. It has very significant tax implications, and airbnb does NOT want to cross that line, because then they'd have to start considering Hosts employees instead of contractors. That's why they're very careful to ensure that their regulations don't cross any lines that would limit hosts ability to legally operate their "home business" as just that, a home business.

That is also why their "categories" of Whole home, Private Room, and Shared Space, are all rather vague. They're leaving it up to hosts to define those elements of their listing themselves, with rather loose definitions.

For instance, if I live in my 6th bedroom that has it's own private entrance and access to a private bathroom, I can rent the rest of my house out under a "whole home" listing, and be perfectly within the listing guidelines of Airbnb, despite me staying on the property during my guests stay. And while I would do so, there is nothing requiring that I'd HAVE to disclose that. Some hosts have similar properties like duplexes or apartments in similar situations, where they're RIGHT THERE, next to the property they're renting, and they DON'T disclose that. I've seen people post on here complaining about that, thinking they were going to have "privacy" in the form of an owner being nowhere near the property, so they couldn't hear it if guests were getting overly loud and out of hand.

The fact is, guests DON'T have a right to this sort of "privacy". When their behavior is excessive enough to disturb the neighbors, they should EXPECT to be called out on it. In many cases, they're upset because they were being very loud after the posted "quiet time" rules were violated, and an owner knocked on the door and asked them to keep it down. Then they were shocked that there was some enforcement of the clearly delineated house rules. Unlike the pirate code from pirates of the carribean, house rules aren't "more like guidelines than actual rules".

[Sarah977]

@Marcus237  (I think I'm addressing the correct Marcus here )-totally agree with all you say- it's up to the guest to read the listing and understand what they are booking and there's nothing to say the host HAS to disclose they live on the property if it is completely separate from the guest quarters. 

The bugbear here is the rating system, where guests can totally tank your rating and leave a bad review because of their  failure to throughly read the listing description and house rules. And Airbnb will refuse to remove those reviews and ratings, claiming that it is "a reflection of the guest's experience." So it's actually in a host's best interest to disclose as much as possible because of the way Airbnb deals with all this.

As far as finding those posts which speak to guests complaining about cameras and having Airbnb suspend a listing, I don't know where to find those threads and it will take me just as much time to try to locate them as it would you. I often bookmark threads that are of interest to me, but as I don't use any cameras myself,  I haven't made note of any of those posts. Try typing "cameras" or other key words into the search function here and hopefully you'll find something pertinent.

[Marcus237]

@Sarah977Well, as I said in an earlier post, I spent about 8 straight hours reading threads on here regarding cameras, and I didn't see what you're referring to. The closest thing was seeing where someone disclosed that they had security cameras, but didn't say where in their listing. Airbnb's policy is that you have to fully disclose where those cameras are so that guests know if they're renting a place with a camera in the living room.

I think a lot of the problems in the past have come from Hosts who haven't been able or willing to do the legwork and find out exactly what airbnb requires of them insofar as disclosures.

[Sarah977]

@Marcus237  Maybe start a new topic thread "Have any hosts been taken to task by Airbnb for having disclosed cameras?" or something like that. I also find it hard to locate certain posts or threads even though I know they are there- they just don't show up when I do a search, even though I've typed all the key words I can think of.