problems with internet - a reason to ask for a refund?

[Igor19]

Hi,

i recently had a 2-week long stay and, while the apartment itself was good, i had big problems with the internet. They started about a week after i checked in, and the internet was out for half a day, then appeared again, then disappeared again for a long time the next day, and so on. For me internet = work, and no connection = lost income, and always before choosing a place to stay i confirm this with the host.

Well, unexpected connection issues may happen, of course; but what i didn't like in this particular case is that the owner kept telling me "she can't do anything about it". The internet provider confirmed to her that they were having problems in the neighborhood. I believe the host had enough time to try to find an alternative solution (as some hosts have done, in my past experience), such as providing me with a mobile modem or something like that.

After many days of connection problems i'd have moved out, if i had intended to stay longer... Anyway, i survived, but the question now is: is it ok to ask for a partial refund in such a case? I don't really want the host to have any problems in the future because of that, as the overall experience was quite nice. But then again, for half of the stay i missed the amenity which is crucial for me, and the host hasn't done anything to solve this critical problem. How would you proceed?

Thanks

[Rob208]

This is helping. I don't think a host will care about 10-15% - that seems to benefit the host. It's not fair. At least 25% seems fairer to me.

Both parties suffer then. If hosts don't like that, they should be clear that Internet is not part of the contract and the service can't be guaranteed. Hosts should declare whether they are piggybacking neighbour's wifi too, because there is an inherently reduced service for that (with BTFON anyway).

In my case, the host knew the wifi was bad, but only reported that in the house documentation on arrival - not in the listing. I believe hat shows deception, and I think that warrants a higher refund. I'm thinking 50%. 

I'm not sure hosts appreciate how much inconvenience is involved in leaving a property and arranging a refund (all within 24 hours and in some cases without communications), so to say 'you stayed because you thought it was adequate' isn't something I would agree with.

[Paul154]

The true price of poor internet service is the rebate that the host could get from the ISP.

If I had perfect documentation AND I wanted to spend hours on the phone with the ISP AND I found an friendly ear from the ISP, the best rebate I could get would be $2/day in the case of 100% blackout.

Probably all ISPs are government regulated and most governments are so grateful to provide internet in their district that they limit ISPs liability to the actual loss of service. They are not punished for lost work product or inconvenience AND THEY ARE THE EXPERTS!

Why should simple hosts be held to a higher standard?

It is assumed that wifi provided is NOT a blanket guarantee. Even internet experts would be foolish to make that guarantee.

[Rob208]

@Paul154 that seems like a reasonable answer if it's an ISP issue and the router and service is owned by the airbnb host. Nicely argued, I agree with you. So we have an answer ... $2 per day.

It doesn't help me though, my airbnb host knew there was an issue, and didn't own the router or service - no one knows if it was the ISP, or the neighbour re-positioning their router. I was only told in my arrival notes (and that's the proof that she knew). So, if you accept that was a deception, what do you think is an appropriate level of refund? The refund is for mis-selling at the crux of it. Commercially, a 100% refund would be 'normal' for mis-selling (in the UK anyway). So 50% doesn't seem unreasonable to me. What do you think? 

[Paul154]

@Rob208 @Marit-Anne0

Rob, I agree with Marit Anne. Airbnb would be the experts whom we all rely on in these situations.

Lay out your argument and let them arbitrate.

Your argument is strongest if you left, but may be valid even if you stayed.

Good luck

[David126]

@Paul154

A CSR rep still wet behind the ears who has been on the job 10 minutes.

Perhaps they should call them Geniuses. Worked for Apple.

[Marit-Anne0]

@Rob208

Your option is to cancel and get a refund for the days not spent, then find other accomodation with reliable wifi. If the accomodation is not as described, you can contact airbnb and they will assist and get you a full refund for the days not spent.

[David126]

Internet service can not be guaranteed by a Host, or a Hotel, can always go down. I have never had a rebated from my ISP when it has failed, costs me about $1.50 a day, so goes down for a couple of hours would be 12c.

England game just started so if I went down the Pub to watch it and bought a Pint and a packet of crisps and the TV went down could I claim a 25% refund?

I know many Hotels used to charge for it now it seems the plan is to provide basic free and if you want premium you pay. I certainly would like this option, gusts can pay say $10 a day, seems to be a normal rate, if soemthing happens and it goes down they get a rebate for those days.

[Rob208]

@David126 I broadly agree with you *if* it's undeniably an ISP problem and the host has not contributed to the problem (for example by piggybacking a neighbour's wifi). But going on vacation can't really be compared to going to the pub. The time involved and the ease of transferring your patronage elsewhere are vastly different. Complaining, finding alternative accommodation, packing up a family, and relocating - all without Internet - is *very* inconvenient, at best. How about if you travel to the actual game and are told that the players haven't turned up, but you won't get any money back because the stadium can still be looked at? Anyway, I don't want to argue! My main issue is about the refund for an incorrect listing that just happens to be the wifi-related (but could easily be the wrong number of beds, or no view). The cost of that is very subjective obviously. I've requested 50% - so we will know what airbnb thinks soon.

@everyone else that replied - thanks for your comments!

[Rob208]

Here's the final result ...

The host implied it was my fault but offered me £50 'good will' - on a total bill of £350.

I opened a dispute with airbnb and they offered a further £50, or a voucher for £65.

The airbnb guy said that 20% was typical for wifi issues, he also said that most hosts don't offer it.

The additional amount was because the listing was inaccurate.

I hope these figures help some people. 

Thanks for comments! Case closed.

[David126]

That is good to know, if you want to provide Internet increase your price by 20%

Wonder if it factored in to Smart Pricing?

[Rob208]

@David126 I think hosts just need to be honest about the service and say what their policy on faults is. Maybe say "Wifi has been found to be good and reliable at 8Mbps but should not be considered a guaranteed service. If the service is not available for ANY reason the host will refund a maximum of $x per day". I can't see airbnb awarding more if your policy is explicit and fair.  

[David126]

I do not charge for mine, so would need to increase my price point so I have something to refund.

I am in the middle of nowhere so having passable Internet is a win, many around here rely on Satellite which is horribly expensive and has strict data caps.

I am not going to bother unless it becomes an issue, most of my bookings are short so 20% whatever from any one booking is somebody tried it on would not hurt, if that happens I will probably just delete reference to internet in my listing. I was thinking of downsizing the TV Subcription so deleted that from ameneties about 6 weeks ago and as far as I can see nobody has noticed. Very few Guests read the whole listing.

[Cathy172]

Here's where the old saw "don't over-promise and under-deliver" comes in...

[Cormac0]

@Igor

No, you do not deserve a refund, it my opinion this is getting ridicules! there usually is a correlation between the price charged and the service delivered, you have decided to cherry pick based on your particular requirement, in your case its "internet" in another case it could be "pot and pans" or yet another a "electric shaving socket" in the bathroom which may be an absolute requirement for a model.

The next time you go looking for reasonably priced accommodation you should discuss your internet requirement with the Host, you may find fewer Host willing to accommodate you!

I have found a direct correlation between the price I charge; the length guests stay and the use of use of utilities while not exponential it's not linear either. The lower my price the longer guests stay and an increased use of Electricity, Gas, and Water, I think it's because the guests tend to stay in proportional more than they go out with longer stays.

Regards

Cormac

The Explorer's Club Krakow III

[Jesse499]

If you read the original post, they did check with the host about internet connection prior to booking. Expecting a utility to work while you rent a space is not “ridiculous” nor is it an unreasonable request. If the listing says internet is provided, then it is reasonable to assume that internet be provided. A portable modem would have been a solution for the host to offer. The renter is not “cherry picking” something to be upset about. If pots and pans are listed as something provided, than it would be reasonable to be upset if you arrive with groceries only to find no pots and pans. A host is responsible for ensuring a good stay and the internet being out is no different than another utility being out. The host gets paid to provide what they say they are going to provide. So they should have backup solutions in place for if things don’t go as planned.