Are solar panels the answer to my high energy bills?

[Monique171]

I’m thinking of installing solar panels to offset the high cost of electricity in Jamaica. Guests leave the AC on non stop from check In till check out. It’s always a sunny day in Jamaica-

I’m curious to know if anyone has had success or failure with installing solar panels?

[Robin4]

@Monique171

Monique, I live in South Australia where we have the highest electricity charges in the world. This has come about because our state government did not wish to have to replace their ageing coal fired power generation, and has set up large scale wind and solar farms and given incentives for consumers to generate their own electricity.

In theory this is great...South Australia, for almost all the year, now is a net exported of renewable energy to the Eastern states. No coal or nuclear fired generation takes place here and the gas fired generation is virtually mothballed now supplying very little power most of the time. 

To push consumers into renewable energy, what our government did for consumers was to guarantee a 'feed-in' tariff of 40c per Kw for all excess energy fed back to the grid until the end of 2026 and power supply companies top that feed-in tarrif up to 60c per Kw.

Now, when you buy electricity at 60c per Kw.....what can you sell it at Monique???.....We have the most expensive electricity in the world.

But the effect of this Monique I have a combination of solar and wind power generation and I don't give a 'proverbial rats' how much power guests use, it costs me nothing! My power bills are neutral, some quarters I get a bill, some I get a credit when I am exporting more power than I am consuming. I have put in measures to restrict the amount of power wastage in the cottage with pnuematic timer switches for heating and a modest 80 litre hot water service so they can't spend 40 minutes under the shower. 80 Litres gives about 12 minutes of hot water at mains pressure.....if they want to stay in there longer than that....then it will be cold!

For me here in this state the 'break-even point' financially was a touch over two years. That is the time before the saving off-set the cost of the system, and I installed in 2011 so I am a long way ahead by choosing this path.

The other thing to consider is Monique, your property becomes considerably more valuable if it is self sustaining. We use our own power and our own water, and that coupled with the earning potential from our Airbnb cottage makes this property about $120,000 more valuable on the market than an equivelant property without these features.

I would probably not recommend wind power in the Bahamas, even though wind is the better power generation option! With solar there is a useful generation window of about 6 hours per day, because of the path of the sun. With wind generation there is a useful window of 24 hours per day when there is anything over an 8 knot wind!

But sun would be the major contributor in Jamaica I would think.

If you want any more information on this Monique I am happy to talk about it with you further.

Cheers.....Rob

[Sarah977]

@Robin4   Haha, I've got you beat with a 40 litre hot water heater! My water system is gravity-fed from a 2500 litre water tank on the roof, black plastic, so during the day even the cold water tap is tepid anyway. I don't even use the water heater from the end of May until the end of October. The water from the tank is actually warmer than anyone really wants here at that time of year. Snowy landscape photos look enticing 🙂

[Robin4]

@Sarah977 @Monique171

Good on you Sarah, that is using your head. I am not, and don't have a burning desire to be a 'greenie' but I feel good about the small energy footprint I leave on this planet.

This is a potentially energy hungry property! I have a 16Kw full house ducted reverse cycle air conditioning system plus a small wall split unit to service just the kitchen living area when that is all we need to use. I have another very small reverse cycle wall split unit built into a drying cupboard in the bathroom with racks which serves as a clothes dryer during winter months. This costs around 15% of what a conventional electric clothes dryer costs to run.

I have 7Kws of full air conditioning servicing the listing cottage and a further 5.6 Kws servicing my man cave. So just in air conditioning alone there is 36 Kws servicing this property.

I have 4 fridges included a wine fridge and I have 3 electric hot water services....one for the main bathroom, one for the kitchen sink and one for the listing cottage.

We have the capacity to really gobble up power here. The average home in Australia uses 27 Kws of electricity a day. We can use up to 62 Kws here at times. If you work that out 62 x 90 days by 40c per Kw (the current buying rate) that works out to a quarterly power bill of $2,300 plus GST and the supply charge! I never got one that high but my last quarterly power bill before going green was  $1,972.00.....Now, I am neutral, so Sarah, as I said I am not a greenie, but gee, it makes a lot of sense.

Cheers.....Rob

[Monique171]

Wow Rob, thanks- that was on point. I already have a solar water heater and it works like a charm. I think I’m ready for the next step. I should find out if there are any incentives in place in Jamaica for setting this up as well as what the cost would be to buy the system over there. I’m in New York so I’m also curious to know if it would be cheaper to get the system here in the states and ship it. How does one know how many panels you would need, based on consumption or size of home?

[Robin4 · Accepted solution]

@Monique171

Good quality panels will now produce 250 watts per panel so 12 panels will produce a useable 3 Kws per hr at peak capacity. So I would suggest this is the path you should follow. 3Kws will generate in Jamaica around 21 Kws of electricity per day which will not be far short of the property's requirement. In other words you energy bills would be extremely minimal, if at all, and here in Australia a 3 Kw system installed with a good quality inverter, smart meter, approved and connected to the mains will cost around $2,800 AU (around $2,190 USD).

I need to do a couple of other duties like.....get dinner....but I will return to this if you need me too. I haven't even started on battery storage yet...and that really is the way to go!

Cheers.....Rob 

[Fred13]

   I am strictly on solar (and wind power) running an island in Belize. It is a Godsend.  Keep in mind, that the journey into learning about solar power is twofold: from the production side, but also from the consumption side. Today lightbulbs (LEDs) require a fraction of power as in the past (1/10) and even AC is now cut by 50% by switching to Inverter AC systems, and so on. 

   I would recommend learning everything you can on the subject (via the internet for example) and then asking someone that installs such systems all the pertinent questions, but with knowledge beforehand you be able to separate the 'needed' from the 'over-selling'. There are fantastic 'guides' on the web on what you will need and not.

  Btw, wind power in my case, has proven to be a 2nd Godsend, for we get only 5.5 hrs of direct sun (Region 5) and yet even a small wind generator produces power 24 hrs non-stop. Today, they are small, inexpensive, tough, whisper quiet and even attractive (and cool). They are most important during rainy (aka cloudy) 'seasons'. 

   There are many combinations and types of solar systems:  hybrid (solar/wind), grid assist, etc. It will all start making sense once you start reading on this fascination subject.

[Robin4]

@Fred13

Fred, I assume as there are no power cables from the mainland that 6 miles out to Bird Island, you are using battery storage. What capacity battery array do you have, and what type are they?

This is the way of the future Fred....I have 850amp/hrs of battery storage and that is enough to get me by for around 6 days if the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow! After that, I possibly have to open my wallet.

My wind turbine is an Italian Pramac verticle axis turbine connected to two Fisher Paykel 750 watt pancake washing machine motors that are wired in series to give an output through the dump circuit of 2Kws/pr hr maximum. Through the winter this gives me a capacity of around 38Kws per day which working with my solar meets all my power requirements here.

https://imgur.com/a/TZrlV

I am possibly going to be a sh*t here and start a thread on renewable energy and how to understand it because many hosts complain about guest power useage and if one understands how to control it it is of imeasurable help.

Cheers.....Rob

[David126]

I will just mention the dynamics of where I am just to show more that your local situation is the one that matters.

Turbines are not cost effective, we have plenty of wind but you need a steady wind and that is for the Eastern Plains, not the Rockies.

PV does work, we have plenty of sunshine and maintenance is much less.

We have no cooling demand, nobody I know has AC, but we do have a high heat demand.

Our electricty cost is about 13c Kwh, we are supplied by a Rural Association so pay more than someone in the big cities. I am told they are realtively easy to deal with as far as going grid tied but provide no rebates and the buy in rate is not attractive.

In my case my main energy demand is heat and willusopefully have my wood fired gassification boilers running next year, Propane is my major bill.

I jsut replaced many of my fluorescent tubes with LED versions, they were going and LED tubes cost me about twice as much but use half the electricty, I have a commercial kitchen which I do not currently use and had 20 tubes that were dying on me.

Usually the first step is to mitigate any demand, and that sounds like the AC. So focus on that, is it high efficency, running optimally, what is the control system, is it running when it is not needed?

You have a reverse insulation issue, you need to keep the cold in, look at that.

Whe you had done all you can to minimise use then look at alternative power sources.

[Robin4]

@David126

David, at 13c pr/Kwh I would not have contemplated alternatives....as you say, it's the dynamics of the situation. My reality is 43c pr/Kwh. Now, if your propane bill was to rise next year by 300% I dare say you would start searching for alternatives....and that is what we have been forced into.

It is all very well for us to say we are  world leaders in this or that....but at what cost! There are many families here who are having their electricity supply disconnected because they cannot pay their energy bills, is this a caring sharing society? These people burn their houses down because they are trying to live with wood fires and candles.......!!!

One day, this may work David....at the moment (in general) it doesn't. But for me, I am fortunate it does, even compared to your Colorado environment I am ahead....the last 5 years in energy costs have not cost me $100 in total, tell me David, who is the winner!

Your point about maintenance though David is very valid! That is why I chose an Italian turbine over a Chinese one. It is no good trying to maintain a machine that is going to cost you everything you save in running costs

Cheers.....Rob

[David126]

@Robin4

Some people I know about 5 miles away have a Ranch and got a grant for a Turbine, they say that the maintenace costs are such that it breaks even, would have been a loser without the grant.

I have a friend off grid and goes on about his savings, but he had to replace his batteries recently....

Actually the reason for my Biomass Boilers is that Propane when I started this project was about 3x the current cost.

Now if I was starting from scratch I would mitigate my energy needs by design, south facing, high insulation etc etc.

[Robin4]

@David126

A couple of observations David.

I was told when I first went into this...

A/. Don't buy a propellor turbine, they are noisy and are prone to breakdown.

B/. Don't buy a cheap unit marketed on an auction site, maintenance costs will erode any benefit in having it.

I have a vertical axis unit which gets around the problems of propellor units. It is virtually noiseless in operation! You have to be directly underneath it to hear anything at all and any audible noise will be a soft 'swish' sound.

It is nondirectional....the wind blows and it spins, it does not have to point into the wind on a bearing axis all the time.

This unit is of Italian design and manufacture (Pramac) and does not suffer from the quality and longevity issues of almost all the cheaper Asian units.

This turbine does not require local government approval, it is seen in the same category as a television antenna or a roof ventilator, propellor units do require approval!

Since 2011 this turbine has not given a moments problem....it just sits there and does it's job.

I am sorry David that your ranch neighbours have struck maintenance issues but it really does pay to do a bit of research before you stick your neck out on something like this.

Same with batteries David, lead acid and lithium have around a ten-twelve year lifespan. Tesla will only warranty their 'Powerwall' to produce 30% of it's rated capacity after 8 years!

Nickel/Iron batteries were invented by Thomas Edison in the late 1800s and fell out of favour because they were sluggish compared to lead/acid, but now they are having a comeback. They are ideal for larger scale power storage where instantaneous heavy power draw will not be called for.......and they are warrantied for 35 years!

Cheers.....Rob

[Fred13]

Off to the island for the day, but on batteries;

Converted to the new 2V beasts ( http://lifelinebatteries.com/products/marine-batteries/gpl-6ct-2v/ )and switched to 24Volts, since it is so much more efficient than 12v, but drop down to 12v for specific 12v appliances.

On wind generator: http://shop.solardirect.com/product_info.php?products_id=1141

This is a fascinating arena indeed. 

/back later

[Pete28]

A few cold climate ideas 🙂 which have helped with my$250/ month power

- only supply heaters with temp gauges, not range 1-6 etc. all guests set heaters to 6 (which is 85 degrees)

- I opened up fan heater we provide and disabled the higher watt setting, and also limited the thermostat. You could do similar with AC. Remove the high cooling setting.

- some hotels force the Ac to go off when a room is empty with motion detector. You can get these for power sockets from,Amazon, or add a thermostat to the power socket set to 70

It would be great if it was easier to lock thermostats. They are easily abused and can lead to hide bills..

[Oomesh-Kumarsingh0]

@Monique171 Solar panel can help you save a lot on the long term but if you want other alternatives you must consider using a solar powered AC and a solar water heater which is less expensive than the solar panels.Goodluck!!!