kayaks, bikes as amenities

[Yocencia0]

AirBnB has added Bikes and Kayaks as amenities.   

Does this mean that AirBnB is covering the equipment for damage and loss now?

What about liability?   Is AirBnB going to back the host for liability with the equipment?   

Should there be a separate contract or just rule section that use of the equipment is at the guests own risk.

This has been a topic on and off here but not AirBnB seems to be supporting the equipment more directly as included amenities.

[Babar8]

Despite the fact that we have kayaks, we choose not to advertise them due to strict liability concerns. They remain off-site. If and when guests inquire, I direct them to nearby Outfitters who handle those types of accommodations and thus assume the risk. I hope this advice is useful.

**[Link removed due to safety reasons - Community Center Guidelines

[Avi15233]

So father reading this whole thread I figured I’ll just call Airbnb and simply ask them. This lady took a few minutes to understand my question, she asked the manager and said as long as the kayak is listed on my listing than it’s covered under the 1M dollars coverage . i asked if it’s also if they’ve been used outside the property and she started reading the policy back to me so I said, can you please reply in yes or no? Are my guests covered on the policy while they took the kayak OUTSIDE of the property and she said yes so I guess I’ll get kayaks . I will however call again and ask it again and record the conversation because half of Airbnb reps don’t really speak English unfortunately and I wanna be 100% sure before I leave kayak on the property 

[Mike-And-Jane0]

@Avi15233 The legality of recording conversations is questionable depending on your, and critically Airbnb's, jurisdiction.

Why not just read the terms and conditions of Aircover that apply in your country. It was very clear when I read them that they don't cover items taken from the property so Kayaks etc will be an issue and your liability potentially massive.

[Avi15233]

Oh really? From reading this thread  here I thought it didn’t mention what happens outside the property.. well thank you for taking the time to reply.  (And yeah I was definitely goin to inform them if I’ll record the conversation) . 

[Avi15233]

I’d love to hear what y’all think about this strategy 

[Deb216]

@Avi15233,

Personally, I would avoid, avoid, avoid, any such LIABILITY.

Your homeowners' insurance company might cover a kayak only if you paid your homeowners' insurance company extra $ (often referred to as an Umbrella Policy) if someone stole it from your property, you filed a theft insurance claim and filed a police report...but then you risk being dropped by your home insurance company after your first claim.

Secondly, if your guest drowned while using your kayak...you risk being sued...millions of dollars.  Is it worth the risk?  These 2 reasons alone are why most hosts refer the guests to the local kayak/bike rental shops - they have their customers sign a legal waiver. Leave it to the professionals.

I prefer to sleep well at night.

[Avi15233]

Thank you so much for replying. I think Excalibur that since I don’t trust anyone obviously lol. That’s why I figured I’ll call Airbnb directly and play dumb. Obviously their representatives are not well informed cause they literally said I’m completely cover OUTSIDE the property line. But I guess you’re right it can be more than a million dollar anyway so it doesn’t matter . Yes we actually also have renters insurance just in case too.. gotta wonder tho. How come so many properties just have kayaks out there for everyone to use?? 

[Deb216]

@Avi15233 ...to keep Lawyers occupied.

Ha!

Stay safe & sleep well, dear fellow host.

[Mike-And-Jane0]

Some words that show Kayaks would not be covered except where they are stationary and used solely for lodging.

@Stephanie Please could you ask someone to look at this definition as it uses jet skis as an example that is covered but you cannot live on a jet ski so it immediately negates their cover!

“Covered Accommodation” means an Accommodation located in the Territory that can be used as a residence and that is (i) owned or legally controlled by you as a Host during the period of the Responsible Guest’s stay at such Accommodation and (ii) listed by you on the Airbnb Platform and booked by such Responsible Guest in compliance with the Terms. A vehicle (including, but not limited to, automobiles, scooters, vespas, and motorcycles) or a watercraft (including, but not limited to, boats, yachts, jet skis and similar craft) booked through the Airbnb Platform constitutes a “Covered Accommodation” only to the extent it is stationary and used solely for lodging purposes.

[Avi15233]

Interesting you mentioned that. We have a small property and a lot of people asked if we have the option to accommodate more guests. Now we have this stationary travel trailer that’s on the property (it has geico insurance and also covered be the home renter’s insurance) and I was wondering if that something that’s be an option. Would love to hear your opinion 

[Avi15233]

Yup . Sounds like it won’t be covered. Thanks. 

[Mike-And-Jane0]

 and some more words. This basically says Kayaks are 'Covered Watercraft' and adds them into the definition of 'Excluded Property' unless they are accommodation (they are not) or just parked at your property  (they are not if people are using them! 

“Covered Watercraft” means watercraft owned by you, including boats, yachts, kayaks and jet skis, and excludes any large commercial watercraft such as container ships, cruise liners and similar.

“Excluded Losses” has the meaning set forth in Section III below.

“Excluded Property” means any of the following:

1. Currency, money, precious metal in bullion form, notes or securities.

2. Land, water or any other substance in or on land; except this exclusion does not apply to (i) land improvements consisting of landscape gardening, roadways and pavements, but not including any fill or land beneath such property, or (ii) water that is contained within any enclosed tank, piping system or any other processing equipment.

3. Animals, including, but not limited to, livestock and pets.

4. Standing timber; growing crops.

5. Watercraft (including, but not limited to, Covered Watercraft), aircraft, spacecraft, and satellites, unless such vessel is a 

(a) Covered Accommodation or 

(b) Covered Watercraft, that, at the time of the loss, is either

(i) parked or not being moved away from its usual secured dock or

(ii) damaged or destroyed due to a violation of law or criminal act or theft or misdemeanor committed by a Responsible Guest or Invitee.

@Avi15233

[Avi15233]

Interesting you mentioned that. We have a small property and a lot of people asked if we have the option to accommodate more guests. Now we have this stationary travel trailer that’s on the property (it has geico insurance and also covered be the home renter’s insurance) and I was wondering if that something that’s be an option. Would love to hear your opinion 

[Mike-And-Jane0]

@Avi15233 as long as people are clear what they are getting it should be fine (I think)

[Joy113]

I also noticed the new amenities added. We do have a canoe and kayak, and we also have assorted size life jackets that we state must be used with canoe or kayak. I wonder how we go about giving suggestions on amenities to add to the list?

There are some odd new additions in my opinion. Pour over coffee, but not French Press or coffee grinder? I'd also love to be able to put in more info about our home office, like the usb printer we provide.

@Catherine-Powell  how can hosts suggest amenities to add?

[Anonymous]

@Joy113  These are just silly. IMO the amenities list should feature items that people might use as searchable filters, to get the most optimal results. Ideally, someone trying to choose the perfect listing would go through the list of tickboxes, check off all the things they care about, and get a selection of listings that have all of those things.

I seriously doubt there's a significant contingent of guests choosing listings based on which specific type of coffee maker was on offer. This is not a search filter that anyone asked for. And I don't recommend that anyone use it - if you find during changeover that your coffee device was broken, and you have to swiftly replace it with a different coffee-making thing, you don't want to be in a position where you have to forfeit part of your payout because you falsely advertised it.

[Cave0]

In supplying equipment for guests to use, the host may also be liable for the safety and maintenance of such items.  The standard of this maintenance may or may not also expose the host to prosecution by the police if, say a bicycle isn't roadworthy when the guest takes to the streets on it.  It's an area fraught with danger for the host.

[Anonymous]

@Cave0  Despite having an extra bike, I wouldn't lend it to guests for this very reason. A bike has to be pretty janky to not get stolen or vandalized in the touristy parts of Berlin, and I don't want it to be on me if a maintenance issue causes someone to have an accident. 

Very happy to offload this responsibility onto a licensed bike rental company.

[Robin4]

@Yocencia0 

Do not under any circumstance allow guests to use any of your equipment beyond the perimeter of your property unless you have an equipment rental licence......I cannot stress this strongly enough!

First off Airbnb will not cover you for damage or liability claims arising from the guest using your equipment, and a general insurer will not cover you for a liability claim for guests using your equipment outside their insured space.

If you allow guests to use your bicycles on public roads you are exposing yourself to a liability risk. If you allow guests to use your trail bikes, mopeds, kayaks and they take them outside your property you are at risk. You must have a rental licence and specific rental insurance to do this.

Remember that guest is not a family member or a friend.....they are a paying customer, and as such fall into a different category when it comes to the law.

It is no good having the guest sign a damage waiver.....that will not necessarily stand up in a court of law....it can be argued that the equipment was not maintained in fit and proper condition for use in a public space.

You must be very careful with guests and your equipment.....we are not talking about a broken vase or a wrecked bed here! Liability claims can run into millions of dollars and guests may be unfamiliar with local laws in a public space.

I am very serious about this Yocencia, lock up your equipment where guests are concerned. If it's use is solely on your property like a spa or swimming pool a dirt track or even a lake...... that is fine, the insurer accepted the risk for whatever is on your property at the time they offered you a policy.

But insurers will not cover you against paying customers using your equipment away from your property, your insured space........ and it is 100% certain Airbnb will not cover you either.

Cheers.........Rob

[Lisa723]

@Robin4 this advice is not universally applicable. I don't think you are informed about all insurers and policies in all locations. The best advice for anyone is to check with their actual insurer.