Do you let guests receive mail?

[Huma0]

I have seen other threads on this subject, but dealing more with scams and fraudulent activity conducted by guests, e.g. regisering businesses, bank accounts, social security  etc. at the host's home. Of course, those are situations we all want to avoid (I have been the victim of a large identity fraud involving the postal service), but I want to talk about guests receiving mail in general.

Do you allow it? If not, how do you stop guests from doing it?

I have in my house rules (which I ask all guests to confirm they have read) that guest must NOT give out my address as a mailing address (but that long-term guests can ask permission first). I do understand that if someone is staying with me for months, they may need to receive some mail within reason, but I cannot allow short term guests ( I host around 150 people a year) to give out my home address.

Many companies will spam you forever regardless of how many times you return to sender. Only today, I got a letter addressed to a girl who stayed for two days in December 2016 and never asked permission to give out the address. When I emailed her asking her to get it removed from that mailing list, she first claimed that I had messaged the wrong person and then, when I confirmed her full name, that it still had nothing to do with her. How else did her full name + my full address get on the letter then?

I have had numerous guests receive mail at my house, often concert or football tickets, but also packages of varying descriptions. If they ask permission at all, they usually ask after placing the order, so they are not really asking, just letting me know so that I can be their concierge service! I have also had demands for payment sent by FedEx which the guest lied about and I had to sort out myself.

A current guest, who is staying a month, casually told me the first day that he would be getting his groceries delivered to the house. When I reminded him that he wasn't supposed to give out my address, he seemed shocked and asked what he was supposed to do about his Amazon orders. I reluctantly agreed he could order things from Amazon, but nowhere else (as Amazon don't tend to send spam mail). Since then, he's had numerous packages arrive from different companies. I can only imagine how many years I'll be receiving mail for him after he leaves. My other guest, who is staying six months, had six enormous boxes delivered after she arrived (I'm talking the size of suitcases). She did ask permission and said she would be sending them to China within one or two weeks. Two months later, I had to ask her to please have the boxes shipped back.

How can I stop this? I tell them no, but they do it anyway. I am thinking of adding to my rules: "Any unauthorised mail received will immediately be returned to sender or destroyed." Is that too harsh? And what if it still happens? It would be difficult to follow through on this without causing a big drama!

[Huma0]

@Debra300 

I also mostly have bills and statements set up electronically, so I don't get a lot of mail. However, certain important things do come in the mail, especially because I work from home, for example tickets for London Fashion Week. I absolutely could not wait one month for my mail.

As far as I am aware, it is illegal to open or destroy someone else's mail and the problem with 'return to sender' is that it usually makes no difference. Companies, especially banks and credit card companies, will continue to send the mail forever. I mentioned the bank letters I am still getting for a tenant who moved out in January 2011. I have returned these to sender I don't know how many times, maybe 40, maybe more? I have also called the bank to inform them that this person has not lived here in years, but was told they could not change the address because there was some 'issue' with his account. Great.

I do allow guests to have food deliveries, as well as Amazon packages if they really must, but sometimes they take advantage of it. I agreed to let the guy I mentioned earlier have Amazon packages but, instead, he had packages coming (mostly via the postal service) from numerous different companies.

When I questioned him about it, he just said, "I can't get everything from Amazon as they don't have all the Chinese things I need." This made no sense as he was about to return home. Why would someone be ordered Chinese goods in London right before travelling to China? Why packages every day, sometimes His excuses were always weird and he was not being honest about what he was having delivered either.

[Debra300]

@Huma0,

Wow, It's 2020. The fashion event coordinators should either email  the tickets or a scanbar or QR code (like a plane boarding pass) or a code to retrieve them from a secure site.  Even if they don't have the resources to support the technology, there are companies like Eventbrite that provide this type of service for events.

It's been a real long time since I went to a runway event.  Do let me know when there's one that specializes in flip-flops, tank-tops and shorts, because that's the lane that I've been driving in for the past few years.

[Huma0]

@Debra300 

Lol, well I am not exactly the snazzy dresser either. I make an effort when I have to, i.e. for work events, but otherwise live in ripped jeans, paint splattered t-shirts and old sneakers.

Yes, a lot of the PRs are now using electronic tickets for the shows, especially for smaller brands, but you normally have to print them out. However, the British Fashion Council have also done away with physical passes to get into the exhibition and press areas etc.

The problem is, especially with the bigger, more sort after shows, there are so many people trying to gatecash and e-tickets are much easier to duplicate and pass around. Sure, QR codes etc. do help, but it's such a scrum outside, they are on a tight schedule and they need to get guests inside quickly. Sometimes the oldest methods are the most effective, although I do agree it's rather wasteful.

It can be done of course. The last time I went to a Burberry show, which has been a while, they not only checked off guests using iPads, they had photographs of the guests so they could verify their identity. However, they still issued hard copy tickets, which would seem a bit redundant if they are doing those kinds of checks anyway.

[Alex8588]

Michael3577 Who pays for the mailbox I wonder hmmm 😄

Just saying...

[Noel102 · Accepted solution]

I saw this thread and didn't think much of it ... until a guest decided to start receiving mail at the property last month.  It was a 22-night stay and they decided to inform us after the fact they would be receiving some mail there.  Were not asked permission.  The end result was that we found the guest on multiple occasions trying to get her hand in the mail slot of the locking box to remove items (none of which were addressed to her), and we are now on several junk mail lists.  We also just received a piece of mail for them almost a full month after they checked out.

I like the idea of adding a house rule that guests are not to give out the address as a mailing address.  I'm probably going to add that to my house rules.  However, I had a stamp made years ago that says, "Return to Sender.  Remove from Mailing List" that has worked wonders for getting me off junk mail lists.

[Huma0]

@Noel102 

A month is nothing. I have mail arriving months or even years after someone has left.

I have tried the return to sender thing but it just doesn't seem to work very well here in the UK. Maybe I will buy a stamp like yours and give that a go instead of simply writing on the envelope. I have found that banks and credit card companies are the absolute worst at removing/changing an address on an account. I had a friend who lived with me for six months. It took her a further six months of constantly contacting the bank before they stopped sending her mail to me and sent it to her new address instead.

[Debra279]

Let me respond to this question. I live in Florida USA. If I allow guests to recieve mail here, the state assumes they live here. With that being said they have squatters rights. That means they are living here and I have to evict them . It takes about 3 months through the court system to get them out and they don’t pay rent. Its a scam. When you get mail for a guest simply write not at this address and give to Post Master. You may go to post office and sign a card stating only person owning  home or on card listed who may recieve mail. The end. They can get a temporary  p. o. Box. I certainly would not set myself up for bulk packages arriving and be perhaps involved in a scam. Be smart post in your listing no mail permitted. Debbi

[Huma0]

@Debra300 

I have it written on my listing. The problem is that guests often seem to ignore that point. They seem genuinely surprised when I have to remind them of it. Unfortunately, many guests don't read the listings and, even if they do, they seem very selective of which bits they take in or not. 

And returning to sender, as we call it here, does not work in reality. Sounds like it is more effective in the US.

You are right that every host should be aware of tenants rights in their area, regardless of the whole issue with post. I would not host guests in any circumstance that gave them tenants or squatters rights, but that does not apply to live-in hosts in my location so is not something I am worried about. My guests have the right to what was advertised to them when they booked the listing and nothing else.

[Suisse1]

Thank you Debbie, These buffoons have no idea what they're talking about. The law is the law , and that's all.

Thank you for adding logical, legitimate information 👍🏽 😊 

[Raj963]

This is not accurate. Any squatters rights are asserted by duration of stay ; in most states it’s 30 days or more. Regardless of whether they receive mail or not. 

so if you’re renting to a guest on Airbnb for 30 days or more  then  the guest has squatters rights . 

So don’t worry about mail and be more concerned about the duration you rent out your space. 

[Michael3577]

Receiving mail does not make a tenant. Tenancy of a certain duration makes a tenant. So much false information in this forum. 

Tenancy laws vary by state but essentially, if you are renting for more than the time required to legalize tenancy, then they are a tenant. No endless barrage of rules will change that. I think it's 14 days in Florida. So if you are renting your Airbnb for 15 days in that case, they are a tenant and there ain't nothing that you can do to stop it (except not rent to them for 15 days). 

With that being said, nobody has substantiated this myth that credit score is affected by a mailing address.  That's absurd.  Your credit score is tied to YOU. Not someone else. Someone living at your address has nothing to do with your credit score. I don't know where this information is coming from except that it's total here-say. If my grandma lives at my house and gets a credit card, it does not affect my score unless it's in my name. 

Mailboxes are owned by USPS - not you. Tenants have lawful access to that mailbox if provided by law - and if that tenant is a tenant. 

The solution to all of this is not to tamper with their mail (that's illegal) or preventing them from getting mail (that's illegal).  The solution is to NOT rent to them for the duration that legally creates a tenant-landlord relationship.  If anyone is scared some bogeyman issue will arise from this (I read in a thread about someone receiving benefits at the Airbnb they stayed at. So what?), this is not the calling. Or, restrict stays below the threshold. 

Everyone wants to have cake and eat it too.  

[Huma0]

@Michael3577 

You are entitled to your opinion but you are responding purely from the perspective of where you live.

No Airbnb guest in my house will ever have tenants' rights no matter whether they stay weeks or months. Why? Because in the UK, if you rent a room in your own home, which is your primary residence, the renters are not classified as tenants but as lodgers and do not have the same rights at all. You don't need to have any reason to evict them, nor to go to court. You just need to give them 'reasonable' notice, which is usually considered to be one rental period, i.e. one week if they pay weekly and one month if they pay monthly.

So, does an Airbnb guest who stays with me for 15 days have the right to use my address to open bank accounts etc.? Erm, no I don't think so.

As for credit rating, I don't know. In theory it is not linked to address but person. However, I do know that bailiffs here will kick down your door trying to recover unpaid debts from someone who apparently lived there years before. I also know, from personal experience, that someone needs very little detail about you to defraud you. It has happened to me and believe me, it was not a small matter.

So, whatever I state here is either from personal experience or a question to other hosts. Just because something doesn't apply to your situation or location, that doesn't make it 'false'.

[Rajan2]

@Huma0 agree with you as the guest is not staying with us to use any other facilities than those that were agreed on which is basically: room, bed, bathroom and physical entry and exit on the exact date and time specified....nothing more. If they would like to become a tenant, then they need to provide that as part of their intent or interest to stay on the property AND have it agreed upon by BOTH parties. 

Here is a thread on Tenants Rights in CA: 

https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Help/Tenancy-rights-in-CA/m-p/1027883#M214496

If anyone has a better list of all tenants rights by state - please post.  

Thank you.

[Huma0]

@Rajan2 

Yes, absolutely. Unfortunately, not all potential long-term guests seem to understand the difference between being an Airbnb guest and a tenant.

I do get enquiries from people who want to come round for a viewing first or to book for one month with the option to extend indefinitely. Some think their boyfriend/girlfriend/friends can come and go as they please and stay over as often as they like and that they don't need to inform me. One guest told me she wanted her friend to 'move in' to her room and 'split the rent'. So, it's no surprise that these people would also think they can register their bank account and credit cards at my home and wouldn't even consider asking me first.

None of this is okay with me. If I wanted tenants, I would still have tenants (or lodgers, or licensees for the correct legal term). I started doing Airbnb precisely because I didn't want them anymore! Also, if someone is a tenant, then they can't expect me to provide and wash their bedlinen and towels and make their bed! They can't expect me to provide them with tea and coffee etc. It's just not the same thing.

Contrary to what @Michael3577 says, my Airbnb guests are not tenants, no matter how long they stay, so they do not have tenants' rights. In addition, when they book my listing, they are agreeing to abide by my house rules. That is the only 'contract' in place here. For both reasons, they do not have the right to receive mail at my address and I do have the right to return it to sender.

[Rajan2]

@Huma0 agree. Receiving mail is at the discretion of the host, just as allowing a guest to stay a few days on your property is at the discretion at the host. A guest can get denied or accepted based on how comfortable the host feels about the guests reviews and use of the space.