How do you prove someone brought a pet without taking a photograph?

[Heather133]

I understand why Airbnb's trust and safety department will suspend an account if a host takes a photograph without a guest's permission.

That said, a colleague of mine who is also a host has just had her account suspended and it doesn't seem right to me. The guests brought many more guests than were stated in the reservation. They brought three large dogs (think St. Bernards) to a non-pet home. They smoked a ton of weed in a non-smoking property. They left drugs on a mirror. They left a door 6 inches ajar in -22F windchill weather.

Because there was a significant snow storm that weekend (two feet of snow) and they had many more vehicles in the driveway than expected, her property manager got stuck while trying to plow them out. They invited him inside while he waited for a tow truck, which took several hours because there were so many vehicles off the road in the storm. He was concerned about the dogs and took a photo of the three dogs and sent it to her. He reports that the guests were fine with it at the time. 

The guests called her and harassed her demanding money back and threatening a bad review because they had trouble with the driveway. She said no because the guests were able to get in and out to ski and the ones who remained there told the property manager they had no intention of skiing that day and were clearly intoxicated. She uploaded photographs of the open door, the drugs, the cars in the driveway and the dogs to the conversation with the guests and asked for an addtional cleaning fee. The guests have reviewed her. She needs to review them today. In the meantime, Airbnb's trust and safety department suspended her account because they say her property manager did not have permission to take a photograph of the dogs. 

The suspension is supposed to be temporary and was supposed to be lifted when she agreed to their terms, but she has done that and it hasn't been reinstated.

How else was she supposed to prove they violated her no pet policy?  If I had come upon this, my first instinct would have been to take out my camera.

[Emiel1]

@Heather133,

It is a strange story. I think the guest complained about the photograph at Airbnb and they took it as some  violation of privacy. I did not try to read everything which is in the Terms (who does ?). So next time when Airbnb will ask: "do you have proof there was a dog", host has to collect some hairs or droppings and sent them to Áirbnb ?  ;>)

Best regards,

Emiel

[Heather133]

@Emiel1, thanks for making me laugh. I guess that's a strategy! 

[Gerry-And-Rashid0]

@Emiel1

Hi - not a nice situation, but I think photographing the dogs was just inflaming the situation. I really don't believe that he said: 'I need to take a photo of your dogs to send to AirBnB and your host'. I guess he said, what lovely dogs, do you mind if I take a photo. I'd be annoyed at anyone doing that - so while I hate to say it given their other behaviour - it was not the right thing to do.

In future you contact AirBnB as soon as you are aware of additional guests and at the same time contact your guests via the platform asking for additonal payment.

Pets - you can only claim for additonal professional cleaning. So you need to get a professional to qote for deep cleam where required.

[Heather133]

@Gerry-And-Rashid0 That's excellent advice. I know she is reading this thread and will appreciate it. Lesson learned. I'm going to file it away for my future adventures as well.

I know she uses a professional cleaning crew, so she was able to provide an invoice. We'll see what happens. She left a detailed review and has received theirs along with a threat to call a lawyer in the private message attached to it. The guest complained that there was a neighbor shoveling the ice and snow off of the walkways between the main house and the guest house. They said he was uninvited. I guess she'll have to add something to her listing saying she pays her neighbor to do this for guests' safety. I know her guests who aren't hiding their activities appreciate it. (-;

[Ben551]

Wow @Heather133 this is a wild story and I’m sorry it happened to your friend.

I must say, I’m starting to see a pattern emerge from “bad guest stories”. It seems to me that these types of guests are learning to play the system. Airbnb’s policy is so easily exploited and I think guests of low moral standing are working this out. I’m not excusing the K9 photography in this situation, but it seems to me that these guests used a complaint about a photograph to keep Airbnb occupied so they could get away with .... everything else.

Are Airbnb falling for guest diversion tactics?

[Heather133]

@Ben551 Yes, there are clearly people abusing the platform and more specifically the hosts. I've hosted more than 300 guests and thankfully the good ones far outweigh the bad ones. 

My son is a musician who also drives for Lyft to make ends meet. Over the weekend he had his account suspended after being falsely accused of driving under the influence of drugs or alchohol (they wouldn't be specific). If this was another 23 year old, I might question, but this kid is a rule follower. If he knows he's going to have one drink he will use Lyft or Uber himself. I appreciate the jeopardy this places the platforms in. It was cleared up quickly and they admitted that the accusation itself was sketchy. Apparently riders have figured out they can get a free ride if they make that accusation. In the meantime he lost a night of revenue and was rather stressed out. He said he was lucky to clear it up in less than a day, as it often takes 3 days. He's purchasing a dash cam to have in support of any future incidents. Lyft allows it as long as the local laws agree.

I'm dismayed by people's behavior recently. Trying to focus on the positive people.

[Ute42 · Accepted solution]

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Hi @Heather133

You could ask the airbnb trust and safety departement:

"Where in the airbnb TOS does it say, that the consent of a dog owner is

required to take a photograph of a dog?"

[Ben551]

@Ute42 This would be covered by the general Airbnb requirement to obey the law. Th original poster is in the US. In most US states the general laws about photographing people, animals and property is determined by “where” the photograph is taken.

The basic rule in most US states is that if you can see it and you are on public property (e.g. on the road or sidewalk) then you have the right to photograph it. However, if the person or property is in an area where the individual or owner has a reasonable expectation of privacy, you are not allowed to invade that privacy by photographing it or them. This extends to a persons pet. If you do so anyway, ignoring requests to stop, you can be arrested.

So in the case of the host whose property manager photographed the dogs to prove they were inside their Airbnb property... without evidence of guest consent, the guest can claim breach of privacy.

[Ute42]

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Hi @Ben551

interesting.

But what if I, in the US, would take a picture of a dog and then make the dogs face inrecognisable with Photoshop. Wouldn't this protect the dogs right for privacy. Or I take a picture from the dogs tailside. It would then just be "some" dog and there would be no way for someone to identify this dog as an individual.

 And what about surveillance cameras? If I have a camera mounted to film  the entrance of my place from the outside of the building and the film shows 30 people entering my place when I have only rented it to 4 pax? Can I used the film as evidence? If not, what would the use of cameras be?

[Ben551]

@Ute42hey, I don't make the laws of the USA.  They are what they are, and they are very different to Deutschland and New Zealand... it's not my place to suggest they change...

[Susan1028]

in the US we are allowed to have surveillance cameras on private property.  if they’re in public places we have to post signs notifying 

[Ben551]

@Susan1028 That’s true but if you rent your property, it falls within the law of “reasonable expectation of privacy”. Unless guests agree to being photographed or filmed before letting the space, then you can’t do it within the space you have rented to them. It becomes a breach of law to do otherwise unless they give permission.

Property rights in the US are described as a “bundle of rights”. Possession, ownership, privacy (etc) are all separate rights and each can be passed separately at any time to another party. When someone engages in an STR they “pass” the right of “reasonable expectation of privacy” from themselves to their guest for a fixed period of time. That means a host can breach that right if they are not careful.

The only way around this is to make a house rule that says guests agree to being photographed at any time while on your property... as in, making a guest agree up front to waive their right of privacy... this stops the “reasonable expectation of privacy” from transferring and allows a host to continue holding the right to take photographs on their private Airbnb property, during a guests stay.

... but in a practical sense, good luck with that lol

[Susan1028]

apartment complexes legally have cameras outside and in shared areas and offices by posting signage like this, prominently posted, and you agree to it when you enter the property.  in addition there are government traffic cameras everywhere here, they’re on all public transit, and every other business has them too, to catch shoplifters.  we are constantly under serveillance in the US.

[Ben551]

@Susan1028 Yes that’s correct, and by making a notification about surveillance clear to people, they are implied to give consent. However, Airbnb rules go further and require owners to declare cameras in the listing details. They do this so that the giving of consent for surveillance is clear when they book the property. The law I’m describing is the reason they do this. The clearer consent, the less chance you can be sued.

Without guest consent, there is no legal right for hosts to surveil their property. The clearer the consent, the safer a host is from being sued.

In the case of the original post, none of this helps. No evidence of consent was obtained prior to the property manager taking a photograph of the dog inside the Airbnb property. Inside that space, the reasonable expectation of privacy belonged to the guest, not the host. Ergo, the owner is exposed to a legal challenge from the guest unless they can prove consent was given.