House Party - Pool Party advertised on Instagram

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Xanthe3
Level 3
Saint-André-d'Allas, France

House Party - Pool Party advertised on Instagram

I am an experienced Airbnb Superhost with 21 years in the tourism industry. In August 2020 I accepted a booking from an airbnb'er with 8 perfect guests reviews. He had agreed to our 'over 25 year old only, no parties, no same sex groups' policies. It turns out there were 7 young men aged 18-20 and one 25 year old. As Airbnb only provides hosts with minimal primary guest details, I knew nothing until I accepted the last minute booking request, the house being available due to a late covid cancellation. 

 

The primary guest then advertised my house on Instagram for a 24hr/7day Pool and Sex Party with free alcohol for girls (we found advertising flyers in the house afterwards). Due to Covid, I was stuck 1000km away unable to travel and so oblivious to what was happening, until the third day when the Spanish Guardia Civil contacted me after a neighbour complaint. I involved Airbnb who did help and evicted the guests, although not quickly enough for the neighbour it seems. Airbnb told me that they would help with this as Airbnb House Parties were a big problem (shortly after this happened they introduced new rules to stop them, however our primary guest would still get through these !).

 

6 weeks ago the consequences of this Airbnb Pool /Sex Party became apparent, I am now being taken to court in Spain as I am held 100pct responsible for the Airbnb'er guest actions. We bought the house in Spain for our retirement (it was only on airbnb because we lost all our income due to covid), our own home in France is being sold and completes in October, but now, I cannot go to Spain as I will have to go to court to defend myself. If I stay out of Spain I cannot be taken to court. My husband and I will be homeless as we cannot pull out of our house sale without paying 70K Euro in compensation if we withdraw.

 

Even if our neighbour withdraws the court proceedings we will have neighbours who hate us for our retirement, which is not a pleasant thought. I have contacted him to discuss (having of course apologised profusely at the time), but his reply was that he was a 'civilised person who lived in a civilised country' implying that we were not. He gave no indication of what he hoped to achieve by this or if he actually wanted anything. It seems he has not realised that if we cannot live in our retirement home, because I have a police record and cannot apply for Spanish residency, then the house will remain a holiday home (albeit no longer advertised on airbnb but on sites which provide a better quality of guest).

 

Airbnb will not respond to my emails. I must now pay for a lawyer to help me clear up this mess.

This is just a warning of what can happen if you host and what does happen when things go wrong.

1 Best Answer
Mary419
Level 10
Savannah, GA

@Xanthe3 

I feel so bad for you.  This is what I am taking away from this:

 

1. In a normal rental website situation you would still be in a horrible situation but you would have that guest's full name and likely his address and maybe ID if you asked for it. Then, you would be expected to be able to press charges against this guest. You would be able to sue him for damages to both your income and your house if you deemed that worthwhile. That was the flow chart before Airbnb existed...

 

2. Airbnb has injected themselves into the middle with TOS forbidding the host from going after a guest outside their so-called system for damages. Also identities are protected and no cooperation with authorities is given

 

3. Even the simplest impotency we know of with Airbnb, that of not being able to charge the guest because the security deposit is fake is an obvious explanation as to how situations on Airbnb are getting this extremely nightmarish and life changing. 

 

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45 Replies 45
John5551
Level 2
England, United Kingdom

Courts are all about money, if the neighbor wins there will get a pay out.
 
Find out how much is that likely to be and offer an out of court settlement, that was you'll avoid the court fees and a criminal record. 

Xanthe3
Level 3
Saint-André-d'Allas, France

He has not replied to my email. So a little difficult to find out what he wants.

Mary419
Level 10
Savannah, GA

@Xanthe3 

I feel so bad for you.  This is what I am taking away from this:

 

1. In a normal rental website situation you would still be in a horrible situation but you would have that guest's full name and likely his address and maybe ID if you asked for it. Then, you would be expected to be able to press charges against this guest. You would be able to sue him for damages to both your income and your house if you deemed that worthwhile. That was the flow chart before Airbnb existed...

 

2. Airbnb has injected themselves into the middle with TOS forbidding the host from going after a guest outside their so-called system for damages. Also identities are protected and no cooperation with authorities is given

 

3. Even the simplest impotency we know of with Airbnb, that of not being able to charge the guest because the security deposit is fake is an obvious explanation as to how situations on Airbnb are getting this extremely nightmarish and life changing. 

 

Xanthe3
Level 3
Saint-André-d'Allas, France

@Mary419 

 

As luck would have it I do have the ID's of the 8 Airbnb guests as do the Guardia Civil. 

 

I was hoping that Airbnb would help me, but as it seems they will not, I will now take advice from a lawyer.

 

It seems that since the Airbnb IPO they are not interested in Hosts anymore. 😞

That’s great you have the ID’s of all guests. Please share how you got those. Do other guests ask for ID’s?

Xanthe3
Level 3
Saint-André-d'Allas, France

@Fred2329 

 

It is a legal requirement set by the local authority where the property is located and a necessity for the rental permit. All adults must be registered with the Guardia Civil site within 2 days of arrival. It is not specific to me, but for the whole area.

 

I guess it is the same thing as cameras being on the property, as long as the guests know prior to booking that it is a requirement it is not a problem. Most people have not had an issue with it as it is the law and not my rule. But, I have heard that many rental home owners do not register guests on the site, as it is time consuming and difficult. 

 

 

Xanthe3
Level 3
Saint-André-d'Allas, France

@Jillian115 @Mary419 @Brian-and-Robin0  @Jennifer2948  @Fred2329  @Christine615  @Nikki177  @Liv 

 

 

Hi,

 
So this is an update on the situation -
 
I received the 'criminal court' summons email at the end of June and since then I have been waiting for help and / or advice from AIRBNB's 'dedicated department'. In August 2020 I was told by someone from this department (or a similar department) that AIRBNB would deal with the problem and that I was not to get involved. AIRBNB did evict the guests in a little over 24 hours, which was great. But, now the court case summons has arrived and they are no longer willing to help it seems despite the earlier promise.
 
So fed up with waiting, today I spoke to a Spanish lawyer by Zoom, which cost 60 Euro. He told me that the case was Criminal and not Civil and that these were my options - 
 
1 - Go to the Spanish Embassy to give 'Power of Attorney' to the Spanish lawyer, this will be quite involved and requires an Apostille for each document, so it will be expensive and maybe not finalised in one day. The nearest Embassy is a 6 hr return journey.
 
OR
 
2 - I make a 2 day car journey to the Criminal Court in Spain and present myself there to be served with the court summons. I can then go to a Spanish lawyer and give them a Power of Attorney to present my case in court as I am in Spain.
 
OR
 
3 - If I do nothing, then nothing will happen, unless I go to Spain. In this situation the worst case scenario is that I will be arrested at the airport or if stopped by the police at the border. Obviously, not wanting to be arrested as I have never been in trouble in my life, I am then stuck in the situation of not going to Spain, and so therefore I will be homeless.
 
Until we know what is in the court papers we cannot know what to do, so I will go to Spain myself as that will be the easiest and probably cheapest option (2 day car journey, road tolls, hotel, dog kennels etc). The lawyer will then be able to go to the Criminal Court with all the correspondence between myself, AIRBNB, the guest and the neighbours to hopefully clear my name or at least only a small fine.
 
Do not kid yourselves that this cannot happen to you when a guest causes upset to a neighbour. It was 'only' a noise issue and it was resolved within 24 hrs of being made aware, but somehow it has escalated to this. Do not think that because you have cameras outside it will not happen to you, believe me it can happen very quickly and even if you manage to get the guests out quickly it is still all down to if you have understanding neighbours or if they have a litigious tendency. 

@Xanthe3  “Do not think that because you have cameras outside it will not happen to you”.

 

You’re absolutely right, cameras alone can not prevent something like this happening. Hosting on Airbnb and preventing problems requires a many layered process, due to the fact that Airbnb breeds bad guests/bad behavior and puts hosts at a disadvantage with its policies and processes.  


Really hoping you come out ahead in this. Looking forward to hearing about the positive outcome.

Nikki177
Level 2
Panama City, Panama

@Xanthe3 

 

I want to start off saying this is a scary horrible situation for you I imagine and I am sorry you are going through this.  I have somethings I would like to know and say.  Please see the following:

 

 

1.  Why NOT just go to the court proceedings in Spain?  What is the issue with that?

 

2.  This is the issue when moving to other country, one must familiarize themselves with the laws and customs of the country.  

 

3.  The neighbors response is extreme but understandable as the Spanish like things to remain as they knew them.  They do not embrace change so easily.  It was a bit inconsiderate of you to assume an Airbnb in a place where you are/were not present to supervise.  I am not judging but please take some responsibility here.

 

4.  I have CAMERAS everywhere in my locations.  It states as long as you advise the Guest they are on camera you can have them in COMMON areas.  This is the first thing EVERYONE must do.  Keep a visual of your property, your investment.

 

5.  I think there is no other way but for you to go to the court and face whatever fines they might issue.  Is it a language barrier that stops you?

 

6.  Lastly, it seems poor of you to say no 'same sex groups' that borders DISCRIMINATION.  I think what they did was WRONG make no mistake about this, but somethings are questionable as that would not be a NORMAL thing for one to say to a Guest.

Xanthe3
Level 3
Saint-André-d'Allas, France

@Nikki177 

 

1. I am looking at all my options at the moment. Going to court has not been ruled out.

 

2. I followed all the laws and rules for renting a house out in Spain. I would think it is not customary to hold all night parties in an Airbnb rental in any country, so I don't really understand what you are saying.

 

3. I think most people do not like change, it is not a character trait specific to Spanish people. The neighbour only uses the house as a holiday home himself, it is not his full time residence. I have a full team of experienced people who live locally to run the Airbnb rental, not being on hand myself is not an issue. These people look after holiday homes and second homes as their business. They do a good job. Me living in the area would not have prevented this from happening, but Airbnb disclosing the ages for all the guests would have. 

 

4. I take advice from all over. I was previously under the impression that cameras were not allowed, but I have been doing this for a long time and perhaps that was the case 10-20 years ago, but things have now moved on. As everyone who has kindly answered tells me to get security cameras it is something that I will consider if I continue with this, even though personally I would not like to stay in a rental with cameras. 

 

5. Same answer as for 1. It is an option, if necessary, but best to avoid I would think if at all possible. Our goal was to retire to Spain, in order to do that we need to apply for visas to live there, having a criminal record will not help with that process 😞

 

6. Different countries have different types of guests. Sadly there is discrimination everywhere in the world now. Stating a primary renter must be over 25 and have existing reviews is discrimination for instance against new young renters. I can only follow the advice given by experienced people from that area. I did my due diligence. The cleaners, gardeners, maintenance people and pool cleaners all said have a 'no single sex' rule, this is based on their experience of vacation rentals in that country. I presume it is to help avoid Hen and Stag Parties which are plentiful in Spain. It is not a rule that applies to my rentals in another country as it is a different type of guest. 

 

This house was never intended to be a holiday rental, but a nice place to retire to.

 

 

 

@Xanthe3 

 

I do not understand why you think you will have a CRIMINAL CASE?  I think you might do better explaining to the court.  Is it a language barrier?

 

 

Liv
Former Community Manager
Former Community Manager
London, United Kingdom

Hi @Xanthe3,

 

I'm really sorry to hear about what you're going through.

 

I checked on your case internally and CS tells me a dedicated team is currently working on it. They'll get back to you as soon as possible.

 

I hope this helps and that the issue is resolved soon.

 

Please keep us updated and let us know if you have any other concerns.

 

Thanks,

Liv

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Xanthe3
Level 3
Saint-André-d'Allas, France

Hi Liv,

 

Thank you for your assistance with looking into this for me and for taking the time to reply.

 

I am sorry if I am not up to speed here but could you tell me what CS stands for please? 

 

I do appreciate what you are saying, but please forgive me for being sceptical as I have been told this a couple of times already by AIRBNB helpline employees.  In the meantime, 6 weeks have gone by without any contact from the 'dedicated team'. You would think if AIRBNB were dealing with it then someone would at least have been in touch to say     'we are looking into this and will get back to you shortly'.  

 

Instead I only receive 'case closed' messages.

 

I think I have now reached the point where I must contact a lawyer for advice as well, just in case the court case happens whilst I am still waiting for the right department in Airbnb to contact me. 😕

 

 

 

 

Till-and-Jutta0
Host Advisory Board Alumni
Stuttgart, Germany


@Xanthe3  schrieb:

I am sorry if I am not up to speed here but could you tell me what CS stands for please? 


CS = Customer Service

Xanthe3
Level 3
Saint-André-d'Allas, France

Yes, realised that after. 

 

I thought it was in reference to the 'dedicated department'.

 

CS are no help with this.