California Homeowner's Association 30 Day Rental Minimum

[Nick2]

Hi!

This month we will be having AirBnB guests in our condo in Campbell. This is so exciting, because it gives us some funds for a trip to Tahoe – our first one since moving to the Bay Area over years ago.

This is not our first AirBnB rental. In June, we hosted a family for an entire month for a great price even after taxes and housekeeping.

Previously, we took guests for less shorter stays – as short as one or two nights. After receiving a warning letter from our condo’s homeowner’s association (HOA), we stopped. Apparently, we were breaking a rule in the terms and conditions (T&Cs) that all rentals must be greater 29 days.

For the June trip, we were clearly in compliance with a 30 day rental (although the somewhat overbearing HOA team made us promise that our guests would park compliantly, despite the fact that there always extra spots available in the back of the complex where our unit is located).

However, our guests in December are only staying 2 weeks! Our solution to this problem is a simple one with the cooperation of our AirBnB guests. Our official lease paperwork states that our guests are staying December 1 until December 31. On paper, this length of stay is fine. The strange thing is, we are actually residing in the unit from December 1 until December 17.

Morally, I do not feel bad about this.

We are meeting the letter of the law*, the lease officially is 30 days long. Socially, I feel awkward because the HOA president, who happens to be my somewhat nosy next door neighbor, will know that the renters only will live there 2 weeks while we inhabit their rented property.

Does anyone have experience with this? 

[Mary-and-Marty0]

Nick from what I’ve read, since your neighbor is HOA president/board member and against rentals shorter than 30 days you must comply. My situation is this. My neighbor knows I rent my unit out and he doesn’t care as long as my guests are quiet. My other neighbor is a long term renter and she is very loud with her TV/music and I don’t talk to her and she hasn’t complained. Since all of my guests are carefully vetted before I accept their reservation, I have never had one complaint in 11 years!! I tell them I have exterior cameras etc and make sure I keep pricing high enough to attract the finest folks. It has worked for me but if I had your neighbor I would probably sell. Wishing you the best. 

[Nick2]

I switched. I comply now because I think it's the right thing. Victory?

[Farad0]

My friend, best thing is:

do not be upfront with information, do not send HOA copy of the lease. Do not tell them these are Rental guests

if they sent you a warning you respond:

i have never violated the hoa laws

if they said: you had short visit of 17 days:

you respond:

please keep in mind not everyone staying in my house is a tenant  I am a social person with lots of family and friends and social media hook ups. Add spice if you may...

you can also add or in different stage of communication :

btw, if a person rent my place for 30 days and choose to stay shorter that is not my responsibility to dictate their stay!!

the key to all these you are suggesting scenarios and are not giving exact reference to your situation which can be used against you. The burden of proof is on them

your language is passive and not referencing specific details that can be used against you 

at the same time buy the president a gift and keep a low profile and assure him your friends are all good responsible people 

and tell guests to be respectful 

[Inspect0]

**[Inappropriate content hidden - Community Center Guidelines]

[Nick2]

Trolling. 

[Amy38]

@Nick2 That is exactly how I would handle it.  And how does nosey parks know if it is a rental or a friend/relative visiting?  If she can make your life miserable, I am sure there are ways to return the favor.

I would get the hoa rules changed as long as you are in residence at the same time as the guest.

[Mary-and-Marty0]

Well I have been renting out my condo for over 11 years long before Airbnb and never once have one of my guests made a single peep of noise to disturb other residents. Why? I keep the cost high and I am very picky about who stays in my condo. I typically get retired folks in parties of 2 and some of whom come back every year. Most stay for about 2 weeks at a time and I am not going to stop responsibly renting out my unit unless it bothers my neighboring owners. One of the permanent residents knows my unit is a vacay rental and he helps me out when ever I ask. The other resident is a long term renter who plays her music really loud - my guests are much better behaved.

[Edie13]

I would like to share with the group a horrible experience that occurred at my gated community with ccrs that prohibit less than 30 day rentals.  We have multiple properties advertised at my complex primarily due to minimal penalties and ineffective enforcement from the hoa board.  The rental occurred over the holidays and the short version was the group of 5 renters had attended a concert while in the bay area.  One of their party got some "bad" drugs.  This resulted in him going "out of his mind" and stabbing people in his party with a knife, breaking out a fire extinguisher and knocking down a door of a good Samaritan who had offered a safe place for his friends to go.  The police came, no one was killed but it was a very close call that occurred within 30 feet of my balcony.  Please comply with the contract that you signed when you bought the property, there can be very severe consequences. 

[Maria3073]

Can you imagine, a young couple with a child on the way buys a condo in a quiet little development, with a pool and tennis court ands meanderng paths and two years later -- bamm!! -- a 500 room hotel pops up in the middle of your neighborhood? Yikes!! That is what many people are attempting to accomplish. Not every single home in every development was meant to host airbnb guests or to handle large hotels to the area. Just like not everyone was meant to be a doctor or politican. Let's value the tranquiliy of our zoning laws and yes, HOA rules, too. Perhaps consider ways to make money by different means if it is not legally possible to do it as a host

[Nick2]

Personal update:

I've grown to appreciate this rule and my 'nosy' neighbor. I regret using that terminology. 

Thanks for all of your interesting responses. 

[Mary-and-Marty0]

My feeling is if your adjacent condo owners are ok with you renting your place for any length of time then its ok to do it. If they are not okay with it then you cannot and should not do it.

[Nick2]

Here's a letter I wrote to our HOA committee before a meeting where they were going to make all AirBnB rentals illegal. Feel free to use this as a resource. 

'Thanks for allowing me to write in since I cannot be there. The issue means a lot to me. I wish I was there to hear your primary concerns and ideas, so hopefully we will be able to catch up afterwards.

I want to start by saying that I understand that 30+ day rentals may make some people uncomfortable or even be an inconvenience. I’m sorry for any issues that have arisen in the past, and I am open to working through those issues together. Also, I’m open to collaborating on ways to make the 30+ day stays a better situation for all involved."

In the past 4 years, renting our place out on AirBnB has allowed us to travel and visit family several times. In many cases, we would have not been able to afford the travel (flying with 2 kids is not cheap). This travel allowed our kids and their grandparents, great grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and godparents to spend valuable time together and develop lifelong memories. We were also able to expose our kids to museums, zoos, national parks and monuments, educational experiences that would have been challenging otherwise. AirBnB has been so important to us making irreplaceable family memories that it makes it hard to consider not having that option.

Additionally, the families who rented our condo gained considerably as well. In 2 situations, there were families moving in the Bay Area, and they needed to cover that awkward time searching/waiting for a home. In the other situations, staying at our place allowed families to reunite for a visit. In all cases, the 30+ day rental was very valuable to the families who rented.

Given how valuable 30+ day rentals are to condo owners and renters alike, it would be wrong to make any drastic changes without first exploring more collaborative options. I have a few constructive ideas, but would like to hear the specific concerns first.

Thanks for reading.'

[Nick2]

Lest the doubters jump to conclusions:

The 'issue'

(aside from my prior admitted ~2week rental within 30 days, which I regret because of the breach of trust with my neighbor which has since been repaired) 

The 'issue' was that a 3 year old drew in the complex parking lot with side walk chalk. No raves, no drugs - 3 year old with sidewalk chalk. 

[Deborah319]

I was initially going to respond to a entry made in 2018 describing her fear of Airbnb renters and stating that they would lead to a number of negative activities.  However, I will put my response here since mosr people will not go back that far to see my comments.

I have been doing Airbnb for 7 years with nothing but positive impact on my neighbors, my community and me.  I am still being challenged by one or more  lookers, who are just scared of the unknown, the occasional new reports where somewhere in the world about the mishaps. - like the one described abve.   Jut think where the world would be if people did not want to allow cars in their neighborhood because of the number of car accidents.  I have guest share my home when I am present.  Sometimes my guests are my relatives if they plan to say for 30 days or more.  I have loved hosting all my life, and purchased my 6 bedroom home at age 60 to do just that.  Every guest has a personal parking space. Mostly medical students doing rotations so they only have time to study and sleep - no noise, they come because of the peace and quite. I have four bathrooms, so it was build to handle more than one person at a time - I never have more than 2 guests at a time.  Friend and family know my schedule and do not have a problem using Airbnb to book their long stays.  I have retired friends of 40 years who take terms being snowbird and sharing my home during the winter month. Airbnb is a life style for me, as I get ready to retire.

I am being challenged to a policy of " leasing a lot “no more than 2 times per year and not less than 6 months.  As a pass president of the HOA, I had no reason to believe that this could be applied to a room in my home when I am present.  If this rule was law, it would apply to your partner, sister, boyfriend or any guest that was not your children or parents, grandparents or in-laws. Or who was not on your dead.  I am still on the board and challenging my fellow board member that they cannot take away the rights of homeowners that are not restricted per our covenants and other governing documents. Our HOA attorney, I believe is ill advising them.  I have surveyed other more experienced attorney who disagrees.  Also my daughter who lives with me is also an attorney, s we are fighting back to keep our rights. 

I have never had a bad Airbnb guest.  I share my home them. Out of 90+ guests, I get more than 60 mother days or holiday cards from around the world. I have gone to wedding, graduation and continue to share life experiences with my present and pass Airbnb guest.  

The comment of "stealing from the neighbor" from the above guest sound like pure fear or like Trump saying all the black and brown people coming over the southern boarder are rapist, drug lord and coming to do harm to good white people. Please, forgiving me for going there I wanted to keep this positive, which is what Airbnb has been to me for 7 years. However, that comment did not relate to any of the hundreds of host I have been in touch with over the past 7 years.  I do screen well, set up rules and assure my guest understand home and community rules, usually by breaking bread with all who are in the home at the time and usually try to include neighbors who may bring a pot luck dish to add to the meal.  

Part of my fight with the HOA is to educate them. The last board meeting, I passed out every review I have had in 7 years and the Airbnb background screening process.  I am hopeful that spreading fact not fear will assure more comfort.  Also as other do Airbnb they will do it in a way that will ease concerns.

I have influenced at least 5 people to move and purchased a home in western Broward County. As well as 3 people to start business in Broward County. Other, from other states and moved and continues to work in this area.  Medical students are returning after residency to practice in hospitals in south Florida.  I am not totally responsible but I believe I had a positive effect on their decision. 

I have formed some international friendships that will last a lifetime on each continent – except the Antarctica

Needless to say Airbnb have been a financially benefit to me.  The person I purchased my home with died 3 years after we purchased.  

[Julie1491]

@Deborah319 ! That is what Air Bnb is supposed to be about. People renting out space to other people to have a great experience in an actual home rather than a hotel. My husband and I have had many great experiences at Air bnbs or the like around the world.

Unfortunately investors are buying up properties in the areas it is allowed and causing a ton of issues with neighbors.

We now have 2 houses on my block advertising for beds from 16-22 people per house. We have experienced constant noise, major parties, police intervention traffic, litter..

It's not the unknown for us, but the known. It devalues other people's homes in the neighborhood. It makes it less pleasant and less safe for the people that live in the neighborhood.

People scoff about what are they scared of?! , but when you have small kids, or big kids, or grandparents for that matter, you want to know who your neighbors are. For instance, there are no rules about sex offenders renting short term properties. My neighbor has three young daughters now living directly next door to the house that advertises it sleeps 22. I understand you are vetting, but how much? And are my rental neighbors doing that? There are no clear rules on these sites. I have rented a ton of times and no one really vetted me as far as I know.. 

I wouldn't mind someone renting out a room with an on-site owner watching over. I can't imagine anyone would care. Unfortunately that isn't the case for us. Property managers and unsupervised guests in town to party is what we get. Our neighborhood petitioned with no HOA to change the cc&r's because of the major impact to the neighborhood. It was over 85% that voted for it. It's unfortunate because I understand your side as well. I would love to see a compromise that worked