Hello, I am Violeta. I own a condo in Mexico. It's under a c...
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Hello, I am Violeta. I own a condo in Mexico. It's under a corporation name. I also have a Mexican residency. I opened an acc...
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I'm wondering if any of you have figures to share for the financial cost to you of hosting?
It's a slow morning, so I thought I'd work out how much it costs me to do the laundry each change-over - £2.22! That's 4 loads at home, covering electric, soap, water, ironing and depreciation of the machine. Drying I do outside on the line. Doesn't sound much, but 40-50 times each year and it adds up.
Broadband is £336/ year. Insurance £152.
Have you done any calculations? Replacing linens? Heating/ electric? I know all properties are different, but it may be interesting to share - please do!
Thoughtful thread @Ben205. My situation is a bit different, but for kicks I oftentimes try to figure out the cost numbers. Roughly speaking, I am running about 25% in physical 'costs' + 5% in Airbnb fees + 10% in governmental fees.
Hello @Ben205,
For a one month period I had a spreadsheet that did a running calculation of the per night cost to me when I added purchases.
I provide a breakfast of cereal, toast, tea &coffee so included those and electricity and materials for washing, drying & ironing. Adding the cost of one new set of sheets for the year and monthly 4G broadband add ons brings the cost to €4.40
I haven't accounted for the small cost of cleaning materials and in Ireland there are no water charges.
Steve.
@Fred1310% taxes sounds okay! Our payments count as earned income and therefore we're paying 20% or more on them (and as far as I know, we can't even offset costs - it's our first year, so I've got to look into this more).
@Steve143Didn't know there were no water costs in Ireland. It's around £4/ m3 here including sewerage charge!
@Ben205water was charged for for a year and a half at €3.70 /M3 including sewage but after the 2016 election one of the parties in government didn't agree with charges so they were stopped and all amounts paid were refunded to people late last year. A fiasco, as there should be pay per use charges for resources.
Steve.
@LindaTaxes!!! Don't get me started, I'm already in the hole with the new tax laws, since I can no longer deduct state taxes and my property taxes are more than the allowed $10,000 deduction. I think that if I actually tracked my costs for hosting, I'd have to give it up as a luxury I cannot afford. My last guest used the heat all day and all night and it was so hot when he left I had to open all the windows to breath, in January. I kept looking for the tropical plants he must have been propagating!!! LOL I wince at the thought of that electric bill. I also provided him with sweaters, slippers, an extra blanket and he even asked for another rug! And he lives in a climate that snows, heaven help him at home.
Alice(&Jeff) did a great breakdown of hosting costs awhile back. You'd enjoy it, if you could find it deep in the CC @Ben205
My space is an extra guesthouse so my costs: electric (100/mo), water (50/m), cable (50/m), internet (30/m), my time for cleaning/managing guests (never enough!), supplies(45/mo), damage & damage slush fund (??), repayment of the construction cost (700/m), taxes (175/m).
Yes, there are the write offs, and I'd have had to paid all those other costs myself if I didn't have guests but it's a far cry from a windfall and that is IF I manage to not have a guest wreck the whole place. I'm fairly certain ABB makes a recognizable more in "profit" from my space than I do.
I think all the hosts that listen to ABB constant 'lower your price' messaging have never done the calculation of what their ABB actually costs
@Kelly149Thanks. I didn't see the previous post (I did search before posting, not wanting to duplicate, but don't find the search function works that well). Will see if I can dig it up.
Your point about actual costs and profit related to what ABB are trying to get us to charge is what was at the back of my mind when starting this conversation. It's interesting to see what costs people have (some I have but hadn't thought of!) and where that leaves them at the end of a rental.
@Ben205 yes! search is not easy. I also don't love the find people feature. I went and found Alice on another thread and asked her to come find this one.... now we wait
@Kelly149 - are you talking about the breakdown I did as a payment per hour or some other financial break down I've done? It seems like I've done so many to help people understand that running an Airbnb is a business, not just income.
@Ben205 - oh yes, I've done the work - have the spreadsheets to show for it. This year if we do not turn a profit (so far - 2 years running at a loss but Airbnb wants us to lower our prices!) and pay income tax on our earnings, the IRS is probably going to audit us or tell us we can't do this any more.
@Alice-and-Jeff0 yes, any of the calculations you’ve done are about the most comprehensive I’ve seen. A link or repost here might give @Ben205 of some of those hidden costs that he’s looking for.
As @Rebecca181 said, we US hosts have some tax benefits. But only if we clear a proper profit.
Problem with those other posts, it's impossible to search for your own posts @Kelly149 within another thread unless you remember the name of the thread. But thank you for thinking of me with regards to this.
@Ben205 - in the US you can write off as expenses, if you are sharing your home, not if it is a separate unit or whole house, a percentage of all household expenses as they relate to the percentage of space you give in total for the business. So we dedicate 17% of our home to the business 100% of the time. That means we can write off 17% of electric, gas, water, sewer, garbage, internet, property taxes, mortgage, home insurance, household maintenance, and household improvements. We should take deductions on the depreciation of the laundry machine, dryer, refrigerator, dishwasher and car that I use to do the shopping, but we don't. Additionally, we could write off lawn/yard maintenance too, but we don't. We write off all the material expenses related to doing laundry so, detergent, softener, whitener, spot remover, and dryer sheets. We provide breakfast, so we expense all of that against earnings (coffee, milk, half& half, sugar, cereal, fruit, bagels, etc). We expense any direct costs, like linen replacement, towel replacement, washclothes replacement (so many washcloths! Averaging replacing them about 8 a year). There is the cost of paper towels, toilet paper, cleaning supplies, including dishwashing soap, the vacuum cleaner bags, the garbage can liners, airfresheners and the candles lit for every guest upon arrival that need to be accounted for as well. Let's not forget the chocolates left for every guest - all expenses! The replacement linens are hardly a small fraction of the overall costs we take on to run our Airbnb business but when we were forced to replace the mattress and box spring - that came right out of the bottom line. Ditto to any other furniture and equipment including anything in the common areas of the home that are used by the guests (like your dining chairs need repair, the plates that get broken, the glasswear that needs replacing, the silverware that goes missing, the airfilters, carbon monoxide detectors, lightbulbs,....you get it.... ). Those Airbnb fees, they are also deductable since it is the cost of doing business on their platform. And let's just talk for a moment about how much TIME you spend keeping your profile and listings current and up to date. The time you spend chatting online with the guest about this and that - especially when that TIME is wasted and a cancellation happens. That expense of time gets rolled into the other guests, unfortunately. You must calculate the time you spend WAITING on them when they do not show up as promised.
So we need to add it all up and a $60/night room let to a guest for 20 hours/day comes to a cost break down of $3.00/hour in potential income before Airbnb fees or any of the above deductions (most people pay more than $3.00/hour in parking fees). At 100% booking, that would be $1800 (60 hours of booking time x 30 days a month). Sounds like a lot, doesn't it?! That would be $21,600/year for renting out your guest bedroom. But wait, let's start knicking away at that with all those expenses....Cleaning supplies for us last year - $720. Food $2400. Utilities (remember this is only 17% of our total) $1360. Mortgage and property taxes $3054 and we're left with $14,066. Sounds pretty good for income on our spare bedroom that we never get to use, not ever. So, ideally, my "income" was $14,066 less Airbnb fees (about $500). So we're at $13,566. A typical work week is 40 hours/50 weeks a year or 2,000 hours or for Airbnb income that's $6.80-ish an hour but let's be honest with our TIME - I spend about 25 hours a week on Airbnb so 1250 hours/year (25 hrs x 50weeks), so that goes up to $10.85/hour - definitely more than minimum wage. But the assumption is 100% booked at $60/night.... last year we were at 92% and my low on Smart Pricing is $39/night. Now I haven't gone back to figure out how many nights at my minimum we've booked, but Airbnb tells me over and over what I "typically" rent a particular day for and it's less than $60. But remember when I said suggested we rent the space for 20/hours a day - which is pretty normalish - you know even if you are spending only 25 hours a week "working" on Airbnb, you have to really be available for every minute that the room is being rented, right? At least available and responsive to needs, requests, problems, issues.... If it were a hotel, there would need to be at least one someone there every hour of every day.... So what sounds like a great hourly wage of $10.85 really breaks down to this: 20 hours/day x 7 days a week x 50 weeks a year = 7,000 hours of coverage time to monitor and care for your guests which is way more than a typical work week. That comes out to $1.94 an hour paid time to you if you keep the expenses to less than 35%. Costs come out, using the 7,000 hours of coverage to $1.08/hour (it's not like you turn off the heat or electricity). So paying yourself - $1.94 + $1.08 in expenses = $3.02/hour which is a 2 cent LOSS on every hour rented if you could actually pay someone $1.94/hour to work. That means you are not even earning $1.94, it's more like $1.92 to break even and if you have to buy a new $800 bed - that's almost 417 hours of earned income, or 21 days of "work" to pay for that bed.
Now some of you are going to argue that my given example figures aren't right.... I only care if my MATH is incorrect, based on the numbers I've provided here. I will not engage on IF a bed costs $800.... or that $2400 for breakfast food is reasonable.... it's my example, let's just leave it at that, shall we? If you want to see more of my math regarding any calculation, I'll be happy to provide that. I'm okay with being wrong with a calculation but if you don't believe that it's not "really" 20 hours because we sleep, etc., you are entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. You can recalculate based on whatever numbers you feel suit you and your situation to determine if your economics work for you. Thanks in advance for being respectful.
@Alice-and-Jeff0Thanks for the detail. Whatever the hours worked are, it's still not a good hourly rate. For that reason, we only rent for a minimum of 3 nights. It's just not worth the effort for anything less (I'm self-employed, and the time spent washing and ironing is time I'm not elsewhere earning).
This does mean there are times we're not booked, and we still have fixed costs to pay. But as the largest cost is our time, we save more than we lose.
Your breakfast does sound good, though!
As with all rentals the aim from a tax perspective is to not make money 🙂
- depreciation is the most significant way to reduce your costs. This can be both the property (or part of it) as well as appliances, kitchen, flooring, furniture etc. these depreciate over different time scales.
- any debt, property tax are also significant - with a shared home they are costs you carry anyway. With next years higher deduction, moving expenses to the Airbnb will be advantageous.
- utilities, cable, WSG, phone - again a lot of this is cost you have anyway.
- snacks, cleaning materiel etc.
You can easily make $20k and pay hardly any tax.